Synergistic Research XOT Carbon review and testing.

[BugPowderDust]

Maybe he installed them backwards, like an interconnect or Ethernet cable, they are likely directional. 

[bob_m_54]

5 minutes ago, recur said:

Maybe he installed them backwards, like an interconnect or Ethernet cable, they are likely directional. 

240V 3 core flex is directional... if you get it the wrong way around, the wire colours don't match the plug or socket layout.

[Cafad]

1 hour ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

So as the most recent 'reviewer' of the XOTs I expect someone might be interested in my thoughts on these controversial little devices.

 

Background

Before I start I must say I was and still am, a little reluctant to pen my findings.

Why?

I've felt more than a little hostility from some quarters. Some of that hostility has been in the form of accusing me (and others) of denying the validity of what people have heard. Some of that hostility has been in the form of "if you haven't listened you have no right to comment" and that's a big part in me putting my hand up to be part of this 'tour' (as it was with the bybee tour a while ago). So now that I have listened, I do hope that my experience will be considered valid (adding the little smiley at the end doesn't really make spiteful comments ok)

 

Thanks

I need to thank @Cafad firstly for his generosity in allowing these devices to go on tour. Not least of which is the risk he is taking that they disappear forever into the land of Australia Post - they took about two weeks to travel across melbourne to get to me. 

Second, there is the risk that people don't hear the same things as he does. I know I would find it hard to hear criticism of a product that I swear by and that I have spent good money on. So with that in mind I'd like to make it clear that I don't deny anyone what they've heard and nor do I deny anyone that their experience and enjoyment is real.

 

Listening Impressions

Waffle over… so what did I hear?

First a disclaimer, I haven't listened to my system a lot over lockdown. My wife and I are both working from home and the kids are distance learning, so the opportunity to crank it up is rare. Instead, I've been at my desk listening on my headphones.

 

Not surprisingly, my expectations were low, so I was rather taken aback when, after I attached them and sat down to listen I immediately noticed more air around the instruments and more clarity around the drums (my first test track was this one)

 

 

I followed it up with this

 

 

 

The inti illimani track has a lot going on in it (each band member switches between many instruments throughout each song) and should present a wide expansive soundstage. There's also a particular maraca shake early on in the piece that can sound harsh if your system isn't resolving enough .

 

With the XOTs in, this track was simply amazing. Clear space between the instruments and not a hint of harshness.

 

Now before anyone thinks I've lost my mind… read on...

I realised that I hadn't listened to my system all that much recently (see disclaimer above) and that perhaps my memory of these tracks was a bit out of date. So I decided to compare the tracks with the XOTs removed.

 

Guess what? Exactly the same clarity. The same beautiful space around the instruments, the same smooth detail without harshness…  

 

So what's going on. I offer two possible explanations:

1) knowing the XOTs were in the system, I listened more closely than I usually do and as a result of that, I noticed all the good stuff that's there anyway. Or,

2) The XOTs somehow improve the system even if they aren't plugged in.

 

Further testing

But wait, the 'measurement brigade' are yelling….. I can hear them shouting "what about expectation bias? You expected these things not to work so of course they won't work".

In an attempt to remove my expectation bias, I set up the following tests with one of my kids.

 

Test one:

Simple blind test. I got my son to either attach or not attach the XOTs a number of times. This is slow switching as they are spade connectors and have to be screwed in. I got my son to pretend he was attaching them even if he wasn't so that I couldn't tell just by the noise of the connectors being screwed and unscrewed.

 

I could not tell them apart...

Of course, I might be biased because I was expecting not to hear a difference so I tried a second test

 

Test two:

I this test, there was another variable added - switching room correction on or off. This has a night and day effect on sound and so I hoped it primed me to expect and listen for differences. 

 

I picked the room correction change every time. 

I could not tell when the XOTs were being added or removed. Even if I'd got it right 60% of the time I honestly know that would have just been a statistical fluke and that the reality was that I was guessing

 

Final test:

I left the XOTs attached for the rest of the weekend. I had my system going most of the time. A combination of sitting and listening as well as background. I wanted to just relax and have them in my system without feeling a need to listen critically. 

I took then out this morning to send on to Luc.

Sat down for a listen and there was zero difference in sound. Nothing changed 

 

Conclusion:

My experience is that they do nothing to the sound of my system. I would spend my hifi dollars elsewhere.

 

You might plug these things in and get the same improvement that I thought I did at the start. If you stop there and leave them in, I say 'great'… enjoy. That's what it's all about.

 

Just to clarify, was your room correction on or off for the XOT testing?

[sir sanders zingmore]

11 minutes ago, Cafad said:

Just to clarify, was your room correction on or off for the XOT testing?

Both

 

It's generally off these days (longer story but basically I stopped using it a while ago as I felt it was reducing the dynamics of my horns. I will revisit it again one day and do some more fiddling but it's really hard to run sweeps when the family is home - which is 100% of the time these days)

 

The only time it was used while I was testing the XOTs was in "test two". It was off the rest of the time (to match my usual listening environment) 

 

[RoHo]

23 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

So

 

Further testing

But wait, the 'measurement brigade' are yelling….. I can hear them shouting "what about expectation bias? You expected these things not to work so of course they won't work".

In an attempt to remove my expectation bias, I set up the following tests with one of my kids.

 

Test one:

Simple blind test. I got my son to either attach or not attach the XOTs a number of times. This is slow switching as they are spade connectors and have to be screwed in. I got my son to pretend he was attaching them even if he wasn't so that I couldn't tell just by the noise of the connectors being screwed and unscrewed.

 

I could not tell them apart...

Of course, I might be biased because I was expecting not to hear a difference so I tried a second test

 

T

 

 

 

 

I'm very excited - there's a Junior Sad Bastard !  I can just imagine him telling all his mates about this great stuff he does with his dad!

PS: Appreciate your efforts in testing this device and writing it up

[sir sanders zingmore]

17 minutes ago, RoHo said:

I'm very excited - there's a Junior Sad Bastard !  I can just imagine him telling all his mates about this great stuff he does with his dad!

PS: Appreciate your efforts in testing this device and writing it up

the middle JSB (Junior Sad Bastard) actually has an interest in hifi - well more in the 'building stuff' side of things. I can see him being active in the DIY threads soon enough.

In the meantime we need to survive the dark tunnel of adolescence

 

[RoHo]

51 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

the middle JSB (Junior Sad Bastard) actually has an interest in hifi - well more in the 'building stuff' side of things. I can see him being active in the DIY threads soon enough.

In the meantime we need to survive the dark tunnel of adolescence

 

Indeed, and just when they have "emerged from the darkness" it seems, they spread their wings and fly far away.   Life is funny  

[sir sanders zingmore]

Just now, RoHo said:

Indeed, and just when they have "emerged from the darkness" it seems, they spread their wings and fly far away.   Life is funny  

That's what you want them to do (spread their wings and fly) 

[MLXXX]

On 24/08/2020 at 2:59 PM, Ittaku said:

As a result of a long discussion on https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/119113-tweaks-vs-science/ 

about the utility of using Synergistic Research's XOT Carbon "Crossover Transducers", @Cafad most generously offered to send me his when I offered to test them as the conclusion from listening was that they made such a big difference that they had to have a measurable effect.

 

Brief background. Here is the company's web page on the device:

https://www.synergisticresearch.com/accessories/speaker/xot-carbon/

 

In short they go on to explain they contain "UEF particles" which are "excited by the EM fields which in turn, the EM fields become balanced by the XOTs and more phase correct information is achieved".

The above is from the opening post to this thread. Congratulations to Ittaku for undertaking a wide range of measurements, prompted by the reports of other forum members of a very pronounced effect on the sound as perceived, and for setting out his measurement results in detail.

I must say that the explanation provided on the webpage quoted above does not inspire confidence, as it makes no apparent sense from a technical perspective (at least to me). However it would be possible for a device to work, despite a marketing department coming up with a vague or even nonsensical attempt at a technical explanation! 

 

So Ittaku went ahead with the testing, based on the strength of the listening reports, as there was very little in the technical explanation to inspire confidence that the device could actually work.

 

He discovered a very small amount of capacitance, comparable with that between the conductors of a metre of speaker lead.  As for subjective listening, he reported that In his listening tests he could heard no difference.

 

More recently Sir Sanders reported on his own subjective listening results. He began his report with these words:

 

On 21/09/2020 at 2:25 PM, sir sanders zingmore said:

So as the most recent 'reviewer' of the XOTs I expect someone might be interested in my thoughts on these controversial little devices.

 

Background

Before I start I must say I was and still am, a little reluctant to pen my findings.

Why?

I've felt more than a little hostility from some quarters. Some of that hostility has been in the form of accusing me (and others) of denying the validity of what people have heard. Some of that hostility has been in the form of "if you haven't listened you have no right to comment" and that's a big part in me putting my hand up to be part of this 'tour' (as it was with the bybee tour a while ago). So now that I have listened, I do hope that my experience will be considered valid (adding the little smiley at the end doesn't really make spiteful comments ok)

 

I do agree with the observation about the use of the smiley symbol. Many times on this forum I've seen cutting, dismissive and/or insulting remarks followed by a smiley symbol. The meaning of using the smiley symbol in such a way escapes me. 

 

Anyway, congratulations to Sir Sanders for taking the trouble to undertake listening tests, for writing up the results, and for having the courage to post the results on this forum. Like Itakku, he could hear no differences (well, after he had cross-checked his perceptions by going back and listening without the special device attached).

Edited September 23, 2020 by MLXXX

[lemarquis]

I think the term courageous  needs to be kept in perspective (smiley symbol).. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by lemarquis

[sir sanders zingmore]

18 minutes ago, lemarquis said:

I think the term courageous  needs to be kept in perspective (smiley symbol).. 

are you saying I'm not courageous ?!?!?!?! 

[lemarquis]

Just now, sir sanders zingmore said:

are you saying I'm not courageous ?!?!?!?! 

Heaven forbid! (smiley symbol indicating genuine mirth and friendliness) 

[davewantsmoore]

On 21/09/2020 at 2:25 PM, sir sanders zingmore said:

So what's going on. I offer two possible explanations:

1) knowing the XOTs were in the system, I listened more closely than I usually do and as a result of that, I noticed all the good stuff that's there anyway. Or,

When you listen for something, you will hear something.

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

When you listen for something, you will hear something.

 

Yeah but it's such a prosaic explanation… .I much preferred my second alternative 

[TerryO]

On 23/09/2020 at 12:26 PM, davewantsmoore said:

When you listen for something, you will hear something.

 

If that is the case then that would also work in reverse as well. Those with a predisposition not to want to hear something won’t.

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by TerryO

[Ittaku]

2 minutes ago, TerryO said:

If that is the case then that would work in reverse as well. Those with a predisposition not to want to hear something won’t.

 

It is true, and we always acknowledge that negative expectation bias may be affecting what we hear. On the other hand, measuring equipment isn't prone to bias.

[allthumbs]

3 minutes ago, TerryO said:

If that is the case then that would work in reverse as well. 

Correct.

 

You will hear something when you listen for something.

[sir sanders zingmore]

32 minutes ago, TerryO said:

If that is the case then that would also work in reverse as well. Those with a predisposition not to want to hear something won’t.

 

 I certainly have a predisposition not to want to hear something but yet, if you read my review, you’ll see that I did hear something. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by sir sanders zingmore

[davewantsmoore]

52 minutes ago, TerryO said:

If that is the case then that would also work in reverse as well. Those with a predisposition not to want to hear something won’t.

Yes.

 

.... however if I ask "can you hear a difference between A and B" .... and you don't know what A and B are .... then this sort of "predisposition" can only be taken so far before it becomes inane.

[lemarquis]

3 hours ago, Ittaku said:

On the other hand, measuring equipment isn't prone to bias.

True.

 

Assuming we know what it is that needs to be measured. Or if it can indeed be measured with the current instruments available.

[Lochawe]

On 23/09/2020 at 10:26 AM, davewantsmoore said:

When you listen for something, you will hear something.

 

If only upgrading was as simple as that : )

Alas on hundreds of occasions I have not succeeded in hearing want I wanted to hear...

[bob_m_54]

Just now, lemarquis said:

True.

 

Assuming we know what it is that needs to be measured. Or if it can indeed be measured with the current instruments available.

Why would you presume "current instruments" are more primitive than the technology espoused by manufactures of such items? How would they even know about the "science" they speak of, without some way of detecting, measuring or seeing some kind of evidence of it? Unless of course they are just guessing it exists ......... LOL

[sir sanders zingmore]

3 minutes ago, lemarquis said:

True.

 

Assuming we know what it is that needs to be measured. Or if it can indeed be measured with the current instruments available.

before we rush off and postulate what new areas of measurement science need to be developed I think we need to pause and think about whether we are going about this the right way.

 

There are two main alternatives as I see it:

1) the differences/improvements that people hear are real and are caused by a real physical change to the sound waves. 

2) the  differences/improvements that people hear are real and are caused by a real psychological change to the listener.

 

If the second alternative is correct, then there is no point spending time searching for ways to measure 1)

[davewantsmoore]

16 minutes ago, Aperalim said:

want I wanted to hear...

That is not quite how it works. 

[Lochawe]

2 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

That is not quite how it works. 

exactly