Old age and hearing?

[muon*]

Just now, tripitaka said:

Well ur a lucky fella, I'm younger than you and 14kHz is pretty much silence for me.

 

Still it's no wonder that we all have different hifi sound signature preferences, we are literally listening to different sounds!

True, and there is nothing above 15 anyway, so you are getting most of what there is there still I suspect.

 

Did you use some decent headphones to test?

[muon*]

I regret doing that testing, now i have a slight very high pitched ringing

[tripitaka]

1 minute ago, muon* said:

I regret doing that testing, now i have a slight very high pitched ringing

Oh sorry if that was my fault!

 

No I didn't use headphones, I was actually doing some microphone frequency scanning and was in such shock to hear nothing that I just pretended it never happened

[Nada]

Musical instruments fundamentals are mostly under 8,000Hz.  Over 8,,000Hz its mostly just harmonics and theres really only one octave up there. So its a waste of time testing over 10,000Hz.

 

[tripitaka]

Just now, Nada said:

Musical instruments fundamentals are mostly under 8,000Hz.  Over 8,,000Hz its mostly just harmonics and theres really only one octave up there. So its a waste of time testing over 10,000Hz.

 

 

I'm going to choose to believe that, thankyou

[muon*]

12 minutes ago, tripitaka said:

Oh sorry if that was my fault!

 

No I didn't use headphones, I was actually doing some microphone frequency scanning and was in such shock to hear nothing that I just pretended it never happened

I think you may have different results through some good headphones, at a guess.

 

I don't generally use headphones apart from gaming on the PC sometimes, and for these tests.

[Nada]

Its a good idea for us not to do high frequency tests on speakers so  we don't damage the tweeters.

 

Its an even better idea not to do loud headphone  high frequency tests at all so we don't damage our remaining cilia in the inner ear.

 

It might be worth doing a careful lower volume upper frequency test, if you use computer audio, in order to set a low pass filter and cut out those useless high frequencies you cant hear anyway.

 

 

[tripitaka]

4 minutes ago, Nada said:

Its a good idea for us not to do high frequency tests on speakers so  we don't damage the tweeters.

 

Its an even better idea not to do loud headphone  high frequency tests at all so we don't damage our remaining cilia in the inner ear.

 

It might be worth doing a careful lower volume upper frequency test, if you use computer audio, in order to set a low pass filter and cut out those useless high frequencies you cant hear anyway.

 

 

 

Keep talkin' bout those useless high frequencies thanks, it's all music to my ears 

 

But seriously, if my speakers are going to be damaged by a test at levels that I can control, then I'm ready to upgrade speakers!!! I buy high-powered amps for a reason hehe

 

 

[GregWormald]

It's amazing how good our brains are at compensating for ear-related physical hearing loss. 

I haven't checked for quite a while now, but at 73 I'm assuming my HF loss comes under the heading of "Lots".

 

I still appreciate music and high quality sound, maybe more than ever.

[Dropbear67]

I'm sorry, i can't hear you over the Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[t_mike]

I often wonder if one of those 31 band graphic equalisers used in commercial audio would be of any use. Data from an audiologist's test of you hearing could be used to set and forget the bands, assuming that you could adjust it to correct your hearing to a 20 year old natural balance. The bypass switch could be used when others are around.

[Cloth Ears]

I went to Specsavers the other day and they said I had great hearing...

 

I actually have a huge dropout in my hearing in the 165-265Hz area. Apparently that's also the exact pitch my wife speaks at.

 

22 minutes ago, t_mike said:

I often wonder if one of those 31 band graphic equalisers used in commercial audio would be of any use. Data from an audiologist's test of you hearing could be used to set and forget the bands, assuming that you could adjust it to correct your hearing to a 20 year old natural balance. The bypass switch could be used when others are around.

There are/were a number of mixing desk guys who used to work around Melbourne in the 80's, 90's & 00's who used to have very little hearing above mid-range. so the sounds was always horrible and I (and a few others I knew) would end up listening to the band(s) from outside the venue - or at least, the room.

[Pim]

Right now, my wife is in the sweet spot with a pair of demo hearing aids. Her hearing has gotten pretty bad over the last 6 months or so to the point that she would have the volume up so loud just to watch TV that it would annoy me.

 

She's complaining there's no bass. I've tried putting the hearing aids in my ears and in one ear it's a bit loose so I wouldn't expect much bass, but there doesn't seem to be any in the other ear either.

 

Does anyone have some experience with hearing aids that are good for full range listening? 

 

Edit: she's just taken them out and cranked it up...

Edited June 19, 2021 by Pim

[GregWormald]

16 hours ago, Pim said:

<snip>Does anyone have some experience with hearing aids that are good for full range listening? 

No actual experience, but some thoughts.

If the hearing problems are not frequency dependent then a set of headphones and a headphone amp for her might work. She could still get the 'whole body' sound perception from the speakers as well as the extra volume for the ears.

[ICUToo]

On 05/10/2020 at 6:12 PM, parrasaw said:

For all of those who are wondering "what is the state of my hearing at present?", stop wondering, get some testing done, and with luck you too may be pleasantly surprised.

A totally uncontrolled but interesting test is easily done by playing a frequency sweep.

There are plenty of apps that provide such, and you can do it quite slowly. Then you can see for yourself where the drop-off is. IN-room!

My daughter @20 easily hears way above what I hear @40 so it is a real, measurable problem. OTOH, I am loving the sounds my systems make so, functionally, I don't care.

 

[Fangzie]

20 hours ago, Pim said:

She's complaining there's no bass. I've tried putting the hearing aids in my ears and in one ear it's a bit loose so I wouldn't expect much bass, but there doesn't seem to be any in the other ear either.

 

Does anyone have some experience with hearing aids that are good for full range listening? 

 

They're likely not amplifying much (or possibly even any) low frequency sounds, assuming a typical age related hearing loss.

 

She's also likely become acclimatised to things sounding a certain way. If she is very new to hearing aids she is going to find the balance of sound is going to be quite different. I suspect it's more to do with that rather than a lack of bass (she's basically eq'ing her ears and the added high frequency can easily be mentally interpreted as being light on low frequencies). She's likely to find she'll acclimatise quickly and it'll start to sound normal again soon.

[Pim]

4 hours ago, Fangzie said:

 

They're likely not amplifying much (or possibly even any) low frequency sounds, assuming a typical age related hearing loss.

 

She's also likely become acclimatised to things sounding a certain way. If she is very new to hearing aids she is going to find the balance of sound is going to be quite different. I suspect it's more to do with that rather than a lack of bass (she's basically eq'ing her ears and the added high frequency can easily be mentally interpreted as being light on low frequencies). She's likely to find she'll acclimatise quickly and it'll start to sound normal again soon.

Thanks for that info mate.

[wen]

@Pimi have basic government funded hearing aids through a private audioligist, he is aware that i have a hifi and i let him know music is a big part of my recreational interest, i presume he has set the hearing aids for 'normal' hearing, very happy with them. Previously, 6yrs ago, i paid $8000 for hearing aids, my audioligist keeps up to date with world wide technology, said these basic ones today will be better than my expensive ones of 6yrs ago, due to improvements in hering aid technology, i have to agree with him

[Neville Roberts]

As now a member of the 'older generation' (I am 68) and having been a Hi-Fi enthusiast all my life, I have discovered that we don't just hear with our ears, which is a great relief to me!  Research carried out in Japan has concluded that ‘inaudible’ high-frequency components do affect the acoustic perception of audible sounds. Researchers used an electroencephalogram (EEG) to measure and record the electrical activity of the brain while people were listening to music that included supersonic frequencies (high frequency components, or HFCs). They were able to measure the increased electrical activity that the HFCs caused when played with the low frequency components. I did a bit of investigation via Google and found that either ultrasonic sound is picked up by the appropriate parts of the inner ear through bone conduction (as the middle ear is not much good at those frequencies) and then transmitted to the brain, or the brain itself is excited (physically, not emotionally ) by the ultrasonic sound and sends this information back into the middle ear for processing along with the audible sounds. After all, we have all experienced very low infrasonic frequencies, such as a thump on our chest from a bass drum. It has also been suggested, according to NASA, that the resonant frequency of the eyeball is around 18Hz and our eyeballs can also respond to infrasound. So, whatever mechanisms in the body respond to infrasonic and ultrasonic frequencies, it does seem that these inaudible frequencies influence our enjoyment of music. 

 

So, don't give up on Hi-Fi just because your ears' frequency responses are dropping off!  As has been said before on this forum, the brain is very adaptable and can supplement your enjoyment through other parts of your body!

 

[Nada]

19 hours ago, Neville Roberts said:

As now a member of the 'older generation' (I am 68) and having been a Hi-Fi enthusiast all my life, I have discovered that we don't just hear with our ears, which is a great relief to me!  Research carried out in Japan has concluded that ‘inaudible’ high-frequency components do affect the acoustic perception of audible sounds. Researchers used an electroencephalogram (EEG) to measure and record the electrical activity of the brain while people were listening to music that included supersonic frequencies (high frequency components, or HFCs). They were able to measure the increased electrical activity that the HFCs caused when played with the low frequency components. I did a bit of investigation via Google and found that either ultrasonic sound is picked up by the appropriate parts of the inner ear through bone conduction (as the middle ear is not much good at those frequencies) and then transmitted to the brain, or the brain itself is excited (physically, not emotionally ) by the ultrasonic sound and sends this information back into the middle ear for processing along with the audible sounds. After all, we have all experienced very low infrasonic frequencies, such as a thump on our chest from a bass drum. It has also been suggested, according to NASA, that the resonant frequency of the eyeball is around 18Hz and our eyeballs can also respond to infrasound. So, whatever mechanisms in the body respond to infrasonic and ultrasonic frequencies, it does seem that these inaudible frequencies influence our enjoyment of music. 

 

So, don't give up on Hi-Fi just because your ears' frequency responses are dropping off!  As has been said before on this forum, the brain is very adaptable and can supplement your enjoyment through other parts of your body!

 

 

Research positing we respond to inaudible ultrasound  in a way that aids music listening is highly questionable. Some research looks scientific but is nonsensical. 

 

[Guest DrSK]

On 19/06/2021 at 6:47 PM, Pim said:

Right now, my wife is in the sweet spot with a pair of demo hearing aids. Her hearing has gotten pretty bad over the last 6 months or so to the point that she would have the volume up so loud just to watch TV that it would annoy me.

 

She's complaining there's no bass. I've tried putting the hearing aids in my ears and in one ear it's a bit loose so I wouldn't expect much bass, but there doesn't seem to be any in the other ear either.

 

Does anyone have some experience with hearing aids that are good for full range listening? 

 

Edit: she's just taken them out and cranked it up...

Check how the EQ is set and what program she is running. 

 

If optimised for speech they may be dropping below 300Hz as content less than this can add 'noise' that reduces intelligibility. 

 

Another reason why my wife dislikes full range speakers for TV dialogue, she's deaf with hearing aids. Movie LFE and LF make dialogue harder. 

 

But you won't hear base through them. Most likely her hearing loss is in the mids and highs which are boosted to flatten her hearing out. So if you listen you will just hear the mid and high frequency gain.

 

Often with new hearing aids they can be too good, people with hearing loss get used to losing the mids and highs, flat can sound shrill or no base. Often they need tweaking to slowly get flatter a month at a time until they get used to it all. It's likely she has been listening to all music on the 'club' setting before getting them. 

 

$10k hearing aids 8 years ago are now surpassed by $6k ones now and good until 10kHz or more. My wife with moderate to severe loss can hear the quality drop and lower clarity of $20k Krix powered by Anthem compare to my 4.0 Lenehan driven by Electrocompaniet monoblocks for music and movies. 

 

When she first got them she had about 2 months of surprises with what she could hear. Being deaf since age three there was a whole world of new sounds compared to life with older tech. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by DrSK

[Pim]

22 hours ago, wen said:

@Pimi have basic government funded hearing aids through a private audioligist, he is aware that i have a hifi and i let him know music is a big part of my recreational interest, i presume he has set the hearing aids for 'normal' hearing, very happy with them. Previously, 6yrs ago, i paid $8000 for hearing aids, my audioligist keeps up to date with world wide technology, said these basic ones today will be better than my expensive ones of 6yrs ago, due to improvements in hering aid technology, i have to agree with him

could you tell me what brand they are? She hasn't settled on which to buy yet but she was pushed into an 8 grand pair which to me sounds like a very expensive solution for simple amplification of sound.

[Guest DrSK]

11 minutes ago, Pim said:

could you tell me what brand they are? She hasn't settled on which to buy yet but she was pushed into an 8 grand pair which to me sounds like a very expensive solution for simple amplification of sound.

NDIS should cover $6k Phonak which should be plenty. 

 

With these my wife could comment on Krix and Anthem vs Lenehan and Electrocompaniet for clarity and quality. 

 

I love that we can stream to my wife's head from the TV and I don't have to hear her crappy shows. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by DrSK

[Pim]

Just now, DrSK said:

NDIS should cover $6k Phonak which should be plenty. 

 

I love that we can stream to my wife's head from the TV and I don't have to hear her crappy shows. 

My wife was borne with Cystic Fibrosis. At 49 she had a lung transplant that went very, very wrong. She had three heart attacks, her kidneys shut down, she had one lung removed in an emergency operation for which she was given a 5 to 10% chance of survival. Her left hand chest is completely ruined by operations trying to find where she was losing blood from. Her new lung collapsed. Her tracheostomy wore through a vain that caused blood to run into her new lung and clot...

 

I've probably missed a few things and all that was just in the first three months post transplant. She's still in a pretty bad shape physically, now 6 years on..

 

She's been knocked back by NDIS 3 times.

[Guest DrSK]

1 hour ago, Pim said:

My wife was borne with Cystic Fibrosis. At 49 she had a lung transplant that went very, very wrong. She had three heart attacks, her kidneys shut down, she had one lung removed in an emergency operation for which she was given a 5 to 10% chance of survival. Her left hand chest is completely ruined by operations trying to find where she was losing blood from. Her new lung collapsed. Her tracheostomy wore through a vain that caused blood to run into her new lung and clot...

 

I've probably missed a few things and all that was just in the first three months post transplant. She's still in a pretty bad shape physically, now 6 years on..

 

She's been knocked back by NDIS 3 times.

 

Very sorry to hear that.

 

NDIS generally crap from my dealings and families we know truing to work with them, random and have no idea how to assess hearing aids (couldn't understand ehy $2k ones where my wife could only understand 50% of speech weren't good enough). It took us 2 years to get the funding for $6k auds after they awarded her $20k but wouldn't let her spend it. Our local Federal MP has a staff or two dedicated full time to helping community with NDIS. He gave them a shake. Pity it is this way. 

 

We pushed to give them $14k of the allocated funding back to them and just get the hearing aids she needed. Didn't want funding for house cleaners and family counciling they kept saying we could have... 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by DrSK