Grizaudio Posted August 7, 2022 Posted August 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Hydrology said: I'd always advise (despite a manufacturer's recommendation) to try all configurations and settle on the one you like the most. As Innuos put a lot of effort into USB as an audio output, my journey has found me coming back to this output as the best performer in my rig. I'm curious.... Do you feel the innuos reclocker offers the same quality USB output, once connected to say a standard Rock NUC/Pi4 etc .
Kirby66 Posted August 7, 2022 Posted August 7, 2022 10 hours ago, Grizaudio said: I'm curious.... Do you feel the innuos reclocker offers the same quality USB output, once connected to say a standard Rock NUC/Pi4 etc . There a numerous reviews of the Innuos Phoenix USB tested on a wide range of servers / streamers. While I've not tested the result using anything but my Innuos Zen MK3 the reviews say the reclocker stands up really well when used with other sources. from a Darko review comparing the Phoenix to a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery when added to Nucleus+ server feeding an AURALiC Aries Mini, a Raspberry Pi and a Zennith SE ... "Playing The The’s cover of Hank Williams’ “Your Cheating Heart” (Hanky Panky), the Recovery elevates the Pi 3 from 1 (out of ten) to 4. Dramatic! But wait: the Phoenix adds a smidge more solidity to lower frequencies and better tempers the harmonica’s sibilant threat for a score of 6 — one point shy of the Aries Mini / Phoenix combo but two points short of Innuos’ ZENith MKII SE" Link to review ... https://darko.audio/2020/05/innuos-phoenix-usb-reclocker-review/ Having said that I would lean towards replacing a relatively inexpensive Rock NUC/Pi4 rather than adding $5k reclocker to it. As Darko also notes ... "But does appending a $500 network streamer with a three grand USB reclocker make financial sense?" (now five grand AUD). 1
Grizaudio Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Kirby66 said: There a numerous reviews of the Innuos Phoenix USB tested on a wide range of servers / streamers. While I've not tested the result using anything but my Innuos Zen MK3 the reviews say the reclocker stands up really well when used with other sources. from a Darko review comparing the Phoenix to a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery when added to Nucleus+ server feeding an AURALiC Aries Mini, a Raspberry Pi and a Zennith SE ... "Playing The The’s cover of Hank Williams’ “Your Cheating Heart” (Hanky Panky), the Recovery elevates the Pi 3 from 1 (out of ten) to 4. Dramatic! But wait: the Phoenix adds a smidge more solidity to lower frequencies and better tempers the harmonica’s sibilant threat for a score of 6 — one point shy of the Aries Mini / Phoenix combo but two points short of Innuos’ ZENith MKII SE" Link to review ... https://darko.audio/2020/05/innuos-phoenix-usb-reclocker-review/ Having said that I would lean towards replacing a relatively inexpensive Rock NUC/Pi4 rather than adding $5k reclocker to it. As Darko also notes ... "But does appending a $500 network streamer with a three grand USB reclocker make financial sense?" (now five grand AUD). In my system I currently use a Pi4, which provides multichannel convolution filters via my Motu MK5 Ultralite to my JBL M2's. This could easily be a capable PC, I assume the Innuos is multi channel capable? I.e. supports 8 channels via USB. My system sounds amazing, but I have considered how these devices may improve SQ over the Pi4. ATM, my signal chain is: Rock NUC wired > Pi4 USB wired > USB to Motu MK5 lite > NAD c298 amplifiers. Gieseler KW2 supplies juice to Pi4, and Motu. All crossovers are convolution, via JBL settings. Correct me if I am wrong but the Mk3 just looks like a standard mITX (ATOM?) running LPS? Obviously with a custom linux OS? Edited August 8, 2022 by Grizaudio
AussieMick Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 I think there’s been a lot written and spoken about what makes up the Innuos Zen range. It’s more about noise reduction than most people give it credit for. Ultimately if you’ve got the skills and time to build your own and feel it would ge as good, go for it. I have neither so this product is for me. It sounds excellent, the app is brilliant and the industrial design is a joy to own. 3
Silver Audiophile Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Grizaudio said: In my system I currently use a Pi4, which provides multichannel convolution filters via my Motu MK5 Ultralite to my JBL M2's. This could easily be a capable PC, I assume the Innuos is multi channel capable? I.e. supports 8 channels via USB. My system sounds amazing, but I have considered how these devices may improve SQ over the Pi4. I posted this previously, it addresses the exact same question regarding the SQ improvements of the Innuos Zen Mk3 Verses the RasberryPi (answer in 5 min video). Be sure to purchase that guy a beer! 2
Grizaudio Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) Thanks I’ll watch. The Innuos PC needs to be capable of multichannel audio for me. Is Roon able to address & Route Stereo to up to 8chs of audio to the Innuos USB output? I suspect a Pi4 running a LPS would be very close on noise, but happy to try. Edited August 8, 2022 by Grizaudio
Cardiiiii Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 20 hours ago, Hydrology said: USB out of the Zen into the DAC section of a Hegel H590 amp. Preference for critical listening is Sense, casual and music expansion I use Roon. I very much prefer the Roon + Squeezelite to Sense. 1
Grizaudio Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Cardiiiii said: I very much prefer the Roon + Squeezelite to Sense. I wouldn't use Innuos software, as Roon is acting as my crossover. I suspect this isn't a product for me. I think the Pheonix is better suited. Edited August 8, 2022 by Grizaudio
eostre23 Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 Quboz streaming via Innuos Zenith III (Roon) - Denafrips Hermes DDC - Denafrips Terminator II DAC sounds the best for me. Zenith sounds slightly better at streaming than via the internal Innuos SSD or external WD HardDrive (USB cable to Zenith) for me.
Grizaudio Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) Thankyou I watched the video. I have no doubts it would sound nice. Without hearing it against my Pi4/Gieseler KW2 setup, its difficult (For me) to quantify the SQ gain, if any, V's my current setup. Measurements showing a lower noise floor versus a standard PC/Pi would have been helpful. The Atom 4200 processor is also an issue if the unit is acting as a Roon core, pushing convolution filters. Edited August 8, 2022 by Grizaudio 1
Silver Audiophile Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Grizaudio said: Measurements showing a lower noise floor versus a standard PC/Pi would have been helpful. Just thought of a famous Audiophile's quote... Not saying you are these people mentioned below. Motto: Listening is the Gold standard. Much cannot be measured, which can be heard. Not to say, the Innuos probably still measures higher than the Pi. Even if it did, it is meaningless, if it fails to sounds better to my ears. "Too many of today's audiophiles think audio is a numbers game. They discredit direct experience and deny the concreteness of observation and memory. Instead of listening and trusting their impressions, they block them out with graphs and numbers and sonic check-lists, all based on preconceived notions about what is correct or incorrect. . . . Never once considering why they can't measure the cause of these effects." Stereophile's Herb Reichert 2
Grizaudio Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) Lets not go there, PLEASE.......................... I'm happy to listen for differences, however in the absence of a device to test, I find measurements helpful. In my defence, looking at the Innuos marketing, some of the key selling points are low noise, low EMI, vibration control, etc. I have no issues with this, but I don't think its unreasonable to see some data. I'm going to contact Innuous to see if these devices will handle multichannel routing. Edited August 8, 2022 by Grizaudio
Silver Audiophile Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 38 minutes ago, Grizaudio said: Lets not go there, PLEASE.......................... I'm happy to listen for differences, however in the absence of a device to test, I find measurements helpful. In my defence, looking at the Innuos marketing, some of the key selling points are low noise, low EMI, vibration control, etc. I have no issues with this, but I don't think its unreasonable to see some data. No issues there. Over in my camp, I am still regretting not listening or owning for example any tube gear for 20 years. I was put off by their high THD numbers and assumed I wouldn't like what I heard. A few years ago, I found out after auditioning, I was completely wrong. Better late than never. I was speaking to a speaker manufacture CEO (and friend). He told me, he tested many speakers, for frequency response and other specs. Used two different internal wires, one costing 20 times the price of the other. He explains, they both measure identical on frequency response graphs on a completed speaker. However, in listening tests, they both make the finished speaker sound completely different.
Kirby66 Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 12 hours ago, Grizaudio said: Lets not go there, PLEASE.......................... I'm happy to listen for differences, however in the absence of a device to test, I find measurements helpful. In my defence, looking at the Innuos marketing, some of the key selling points are low noise, low EMI, vibration control, etc. I have no issues with this, but I don't think its unreasonable to see some data. I'm going to contact Innuous to see if these devices will handle multichannel routing. Hey Grizaudio, For an answer to the multichannel routing perhaps contact Cameron at MaxMedia ... https://www.maxmedia.com.au ... as the AU importer / distributor for Innuos he may also be able to arrange, or direct you to someone who can, provide a test or demo. VIC based I believe and very helpful. 1
Grizaudio Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 38 minutes ago, Kirby66 said: Hey Grizaudio, For an answer to the multichannel routing perhaps contact Cameron at MaxMedia ... https://www.maxmedia.com.au ... as the AU importer / distributor for Innuos he may also be able to arrange, or direct you to someone who can, provide a test or demo. VIC based I believe and very helpful. Thanks for this helpful info. I contacted innuos directly last night. Based on the advice I received the MK3 innuos doesn’t appear able to provide what I need. The Phoenix might be more suitable, but would require a test.
lebowski Posted August 11, 2022 Posted August 11, 2022 Hi Innuos owners, I have a Tidal HIFI Plus account and I’m struggling to get my Zen Mk3 to play anything above 48 kHz, at least that’s what my RME ADI-2 DAC FS displays. Anyone else using a RME DAC with their Innuos? I can’t work out if it’s a setting in the SenseOS or with the RME? Have tried various setting changes on the Zen with no success. I’ve got a Support ticket going with Innuos and a couple of replies however we are still working through it. To be honest, playback at standard CD quality is exceptional however I would like the ability to play full High Res Audio as well. Any thoughts and suggestions welcome
AussieMick Posted August 11, 2022 Posted August 11, 2022 Innuos support are terrific and will sort you out. 1
Snoopy8 Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 Thought it would be useful to have in one place, all the Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker information that people may look for and for owners to post their impressions. The Phoenix is an expensive but superb USB reclocker, universally praised in the reviews. Product https://innuos.com/phoenix-usb/ Reviews https://audiobacon.net/2020/09/08/innuos-phoenix-usb-reclocker-review/ https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/review-innuos-phoenixusb-reclocker-r906/ https://darko.audio/2020/05/innuos-phoenix-usb-reclocker-review/ https://hifiplus.com/articles/innuos-phoenixusb-reclocker/ https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/innuos2/ https://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/innuos-phoenixusb-reclocker http://hifiknights.com/reviews/accessories/innuos-phoenixusb/ https://www-fairaudio-de.translate.goog/test/innuos-phoenix-usb-reclocker/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp (Google translate of German review) Videos https://youtu.be/OXJovT2pLm4 https://youtu.be/Ut_fmb61-Gw My setup I went WOW! when I first heard the Phoenix. Sound quality (SQ) improved significantly, being fuller and vocals were gorgeous. While it was not an issue for me, some people do not like USB because of its perceived “digital edge”; that went away. When the Phoenix was removed, the music sounded thin and flat. I realised that I could no longer listen to my music, especially vocals, without the Phoenix. The impact of the Phoenix far exceeded the few USB filters or reclockers that I have tried. Did not go down the path of getting individual reclocker and external clock, powered by mulitple LPS because its complexity and high costs. AustinPop however, did and suggested the Phoenix as a good alternative to the spaghetti. That review triggered my interest in the Phoenix. Am running both the JCAT USB XE board and the Phoenix. As Darko pointed out in his review, having a good source to the Phoenix does make a difference. The Innuos Phoenix is costly but worth it. For anyone looking for the best SQ using a USB connection to a DAC, it is highly recommended. If you have a well sorted setup with USB, it is almost compulsory. p/s Please, if you do not believe in a USB Reclocker, start your own thread. 10
option-up Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) Thanks @Snoopy8 for pulling this all together. As an Innuos owner (Zen Mini Mk 3), the Phoenix is on my upgrade radar: one day I will audition or purchase (second hand here, since they come up for sale every now and then). My only hesitation would be: if I were to invest in some form of DSP (for room correction) that would go between source and DAC, would it undo the good work of the Phoenix? Edited August 16, 2022 by option-up 1
Snoopy8 Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, option-up said: My only hesitation would be: if I were to invest in some form of DSP (for room correction) that would go between source and DAC, would it undo the good work of the Phoenix? No, DSP will compliment what the Phoenix does. 1
Snoopy8 Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 I am not the only owner. Some other member’s impressions 1
Grizaudio Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 22 hours ago, Snoopy8 said: Thought it would be useful to have in one place, all the Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker information that people may look for and for owners to post their impressions. The Phoenix is an expensive but superb USB reclocker, universally praised in the reviews. Product https://innuos.com/phoenix-usb/ Reviews https://audiobacon.net/2020/09/08/innuos-phoenix-usb-reclocker-review/ https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/review-innuos-phoenixusb-reclocker-r906/ https://darko.audio/2020/05/innuos-phoenix-usb-reclocker-review/ https://hifiplus.com/articles/innuos-phoenixusb-reclocker/ https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/innuos2/ https://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/innuos-phoenixusb-reclocker http://hifiknights.com/reviews/accessories/innuos-phoenixusb/ https://www-fairaudio-de.translate.goog/test/innuos-phoenix-usb-reclocker/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp (Google translate of German review) Videos https://youtu.be/OXJovT2pLm4 https://youtu.be/Ut_fmb61-Gw My setup I went WOW! when I first heard the Phoenix. Sound quality (SQ) improved significantly, being fuller and vocals were gorgeous. While it was not an issue for me, some people do not like USB because of its perceived “digital edge”; that went away. When the Phoenix was removed, the music sounded thin and flat. I realised that I could no longer listen to my music, especially vocals, without the Phoenix. The impact of the Phoenix far exceeded the few USB filters or reclockers that I have tried. Did not go down the path of getting individual reclocker and external clock, powered by mulitple LPS because its complexity and high costs. AustinPop however, did and suggested the Phoenix as a good alternative to the spaghetti. That review triggered my interest in the Phoenix. Am running both the JCAT USB XE board and the Phoenix. As Darko pointed out in his review, having a good source to the Phoenix does make a difference. The Innuos Phoenix is costly but worth it. For anyone looking for the best SQ using a USB connection to a DAC, it is highly recommended. If you have a well sorted setup with USB, it is almost compulsory. p/s Please, if you do not believe in a USB Reclocker, start your own thread. Snoopy, do you know if the KIIs reclock the USB on input? I considering this device atm.
frankn Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 If I was to want to jump in to the wonderful world of streaming bits and having a library of bits (as opposed to disks) to play through my DirectSrteam DAC would i be better off purchasing the Zen mini or the Zen Mk3 or Zenith Mk3? I also wonder about the Phoenix reclocker when using the DirectStream DAC as it immediately upsamples any input and throws away clock data so would the Phoenix be superfluous here?
AussieMick Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 The progression in audio quality from Mini - Mini + power supply - Zen - Zenith is well judged price/performance. For each addition chunk of cash you get a noticeable upgrade in performance. When I auditioned I thought the Zen was right in my happy value sweet spot so went with it and I’ve been happy. Some have reported that the PhoenixUSB is the best upgrade for a Zen, rather than upgrading to a Zenith. The value of the Phoenix is in further cleaning up the signal and the difference will be audible into a DirectSteam. The only way to know if it’s enough of a performance leap fir the cost is to try it and judge for yourself. Good luck! 2 1
Thelastjedi Posted August 19, 2022 Posted August 19, 2022 Has anyone compared this to a telos macro q? Im wondering if the phoenix would be an upgrade over the telos or on a similar level.
Recommended Posts