Innuos Owners and Discussions Thread

[Kirby66]

19 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Part II

Too late to add to original post

 

Additional review

 

https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2020/03/01/hifi-innuos-zen-mini-mkiii-review-with-phoenix-usb-re-clocker-and-lspu/

 

 

Comparing Phoenix with other USB devices

 

AustinPop in AS had done many comparisons of  USB devices and ranked them in order of increasing sound quality and increasing cost:

• Wyred 4 Sound Recovery
• Intona Isolator
• Intona Isolator + W4S Recovery
• Uptone ISO-Regen
• SOtM tX-USBultra
• SOtM tX-USBultra reference clocked by MUTEC Ref 10 = Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker (discussed in review)
• SOtM tX-USBultra reference clocked by MUTEC Ref 10 SE 120

 

Audio Bacon (Review) found that the tone of the SOtM tX-USBultra (with LPS, no external clock) is more grey and neutral relative to the Phoenix. He preferred the depth and more natural tone of the Phoenix.

 

Ehrmantraut (SNA post) compared a Mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock USB and Ref 10 Masterclock with the Phoenix.  The Mutex combo was better is a system comprising a Sonore Signature Rendu SW (Roon end point) and Holo May KTE DAC. The Phoenix just won with a Auralic Aries G2.1 (Roon end point) and Mola Tambaqui DAC.

Hifi Knight's Review used an iFi audio stack (a micro iUSB3.0, nano iGalvanic3.0, three Mercury3.0 USB cables in-between plus one 9V iPower) to compare with the Phoenix. He found that the "lack of the Innuos loaner stung harder than the iFi family’s absence, which confirmed the former’s sonic superiority over it".

Darko found that the Phoenix beat the Wyred 4 Sound Recovery (see below).

 

I had only the JCAT XE USB card for comparison and it lost to the Phoenix.

 

To summarise, the Phoenix will beat most other USB devices other than a couple devices clocked by a Mutec Ref 10 (which cost more than the Phoenix).

 

 

Does the quality of streamer matter with Phoenix?

The reviewers tended to use better streamers. Audio Bacon, AustinPop and Darko, favoured the Innuos ZENith MkII SE. 6 Moons used an iMac, fair Audio an Innuos Zenmini, as did Steve Huff.  HiFi Knights had a fidata HFAS1-S10U, HiFi+ a Melco N10 and theEar used an Auralic Aries G1. But does a streamer matter?

 

Darko (review) used various streamers and compared a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery to the Phoenix.

• Recovery improved Aries Mini from 4 to 5; with Phoenix to 7 (out of 10)
• Recovery improved Pi 3 from 1 to 4; with Phoenix to 6
• Innuos ZENith MKII SE standalone score is 8
• Recovery went backwards with Zenith from 8 to 6; with Phoenix, improved to 9
• Phoenix improved Roon Nucleus+ from 5 to 7.5

 

Small Room Audio (video review) believed that it was better value to upgrade to a superior streamer like a Sonore OpticalRendu than add a Phoenix to a Pi device (e.g. Allo USBridge Sig). The OpticalRendu sits somewhere between Darko’s Aries Mini and the ZENith. The OpticalRendu is half the cost of a Pi and Phoenix. If the OpticalRendu gets a score of between 5 and 6 (educated guess?), the Small Room Audio finding does align with Darko.

Looking back, I took a similar path with my initial streamer upgrade to the JCAT XE USB card and a Gieseler LPS, about a third of the cost of a new Phoenix before I went to the Phoenix.

There are streamers so good that the Phoenix will have little, if no impact. The Phoenix is built into the Innuos Statement. There are mixed reports on the Antipodes and other forums about whether the Phoenix can improve the then top of range K50. I have not found a Taiko Extreme nor a Pink Faun Ultra owner using a Phoenix.

 

To summarise, if you are on limited budget, it is probably more value to upgrade the streamer than add a Phoenix. The Phoenix will improve most streamers, other than streamers at the very high end.

 

 

Does quality of DAC matter with Phoenix?

 

Only 13th Note's video review talked about the quality of the DAC; he suggested that it needed a DAC of the level of a Chord Hugo TT2 to benefit. His DACs were a Hegel bit perfect DAC, Chord Qutest and RME ADI-2 DAC FS. However, the other reviewers used only one dac in their reviews.

• 6 Moons : DAC - Denafrips Terminator
• Audio Bacon : DAC - Chord DAVE
• AS AustinPop: DAC - Chord DAVE with Hugo M-Scaler
• Darko :DAC - DAC - Kii Three
• fair Audio: DAC - Kii Three, streamer
• HiFi Knights : DAC - LampizatOr Pacific
• Hi-Fi+ : DAC - Métronome Audio Le DAC
• theEar: DAC-i Fi Pro iDSD
• Steve Huff: Vinnie Rossi L2

 

Ehrmantraut had 2 DACs, Holo May KTE and Mola Tambaqui, but paired them with 2 separate streamers.

 

So, it is not possible to say whether the quality of a DAC matters with the Phoenix. Similarly for an upsampler; only AustinPop was using one.

 

Do USB cable and power cable matter?

 

Audio Bacon (Review) was the only one which discussed USB cables and power cables, and they do matter. I agree, but given the contentious nature of these subjects, I prefer not to start another heated debate here.

 

 

Some interesting questions

 

The 6 Moons Review (which does meander) asked a number of interesting questions including:

• Why a better clock makes a difference?
• How does USB reclocking improve sonics?
• How does isolation of other USB devices fail?
• Why does Innuos prefer USB?

 

 

Is the Phoenix right for you?

 

You will have to audition the Phoenix in your setup to know for certain if it  is right for you. Please note that you should power up for a minimum (longer, even better) of 24 hours before listening. This will allow the clock to be stable.

 

If you are on limited budget, it is probably more value to upgrade the streamer. However, for those with larger budgets, I suspect that you will like Phoenix. Hence my warning that, unless you are prepared to spend, please do not audition it.

Just brilliant stuff @Snoopy8 thanks so much for the considerable time and effort in bringing all the reviews, opinions and info together. Also presenting it in such an even handed way. Bravo ... 

[Snoopy8]

4 hours ago, Kirby66 said:

Just brilliant stuff @Snoopy8 thanks so much for the considerable time and effort in bringing all the reviews, opinions and info together. Also presenting it in such an even handed way. Bravo ... 

You are welcome...

 

It took a lot of reading to convince myself to get the Phoenix.

 

Had to find the answers to the eternal question of how much better could a Phoenix be, given it was many times the price of other USB devices? It helped that a few reviewers were using the same "DAC" (Kii Three) but I was using a DIY streamer. Did a steamer matter?

 

All that reading, now organised, became Part II. Hopefully, it will help people to decide whether the Phoenix is right for them...

[Gryffles]

I’ve just started using Innuos Sense app as I just got a used Zenith.

 

This app disconnects nearly every time I minimise the app or the screen times out. When I open it just shows the loading symbol
 

I then close the app and reopen and often it will fail to locate the server or I get the loading symbol again

 

The Zenith has latest updates 

 

Before I contact Innuos am I missing something here?

 

I’m still learning how to use the Sense app. It wasn’t around when I had a Zen Mini

 

By the way the Zenith is starting to impress but needs a few more hours as it’s got a brand new mobo 

[Kinsella]

I also have a Zenith, my first server/streamer.  I love it.....I'm amazed at the sound quality of streamer music.  But I also have the same issues you describe.  There are times when during a listening session, instead of waking up and reconnecting, it fails to see the server.  I then have to reboot the Zenith, and/ or reboot the router.  Interested in others experience.

[Hydrology]

1 hour ago, Gryffles said:

I’ve just started using Innuos Sense app as I just got a used Zenith.

 

This app disconnects nearly every time I minimise the app or the screen times out. When I open it just shows the loading symbol
 

I then close the app and reopen and often it will fail to locate the server or I get the loading symbol again

 

The Zenith has latest updates 

 

Before I contact Innuos am I missing something here?

 

I’m still learning how to use the Sense app. It wasn’t around when I had a Zen Mini

 

By the way the Zenith is starting to impress but needs a few more hours as it’s got a brand new mobo 

Not such issues here, my Zen hasnt been switched off for months. Whatis the device youre using to control the Innuos? iPhone, iPad, Android?

 

[Kirby66]

7 hours ago, Gryffles said:

I’ve just started using Innuos Sense app as I just got a used Zenith.

 

This app disconnects nearly every time I minimise the app or the screen times out. When I open it just shows the loading symbol
 

I then close the app and reopen and often it will fail to locate the server or I get the loading symbol again

 

The Zenith has latest updates 

 

Before I contact Innuos am I missing something here?

 

I’m still learning how to use the Sense app. It wasn’t around when I had a Zen Mini

 

By the way the Zenith is starting to impress but needs a few more hours as it’s got a brand new mobo 

I've not experienced this with my ZEN either (or certainly not regularly) ... and I turn it and my iPad off when not in use. If ever I have needed to reconnect to the ZEN I definitely have not had to reboot it or the router. If issues persist you could contact Cameron at MaxMedia who is the importer - he's always been terrific with any support or questions I have had.

[Kirby66]

7 hours ago, Hydrology said:

Not such issues here, my Zen hasnt been switched off for months. Whatis the device youre using to control the Innuos? iPhone, iPad, Android?

 

A question @Hydrology ... I have turned off my Zen when not in use since I bought it but reading your post started my thinking about reasons not too. Powering on and off can be detrimental in the long term to some electrical gear - I leave my iMAC on 24/7 and always have as someone told me many years ago that this will extend the life of the power supplies. I never turn off my Phoenix as the clock/s take 48 hours or more to stabilise. Do you leave your Zen on just as 'good policy' or is there an extended period of warming up for a Zen which changes SQ? Cheers Mark

[Gryffles]

7 hours ago, Hydrology said:

Not such issues here, my Zen hasnt been switched off for months. Whatis the device youre using to control the Innuos? iPhone, iPad, Android?

 

Yeah it’s not right. I’m using an iPhone 11

 

 

[Gryffles]

40 minutes ago, Kirby66 said:

I've not experienced this with my ZEN either (or certainly not regularly) ... and I turn it and my iPad off when not in use. If ever I have needed to reconnect to the ZEN I definitely have not had to reboot it or the router. If issues persist you could contact Cameron at MaxMedia who is the importer - he's always been terrific with any support or questions I have had.

If I had purchased through Cameron I would ask him but since I purchased overseas I wouldn’t.

 

Perhaps I need to ask Innuos. 
 

 

Restarting the app multiple times is a nuisance. 

[Gryffles]

8 hours ago, Kinsella said:

I also have a Zenith, my first server/streamer.  I love it.....I'm amazed at the sound quality of streamer music.  But I also have the same issues you describe.  There are times when during a listening session, instead of waking up and reconnecting, it fails to see the server.  I then have to reboot the Zenith, and/ or reboot the router.  Interested in others experience.

Mk ii or Mk3

 

Mines a mk ii. 

[Kirby66]

1 hour ago, Gryffles said:

If I had purchased through Cameron I would ask him but since I purchased overseas I wouldn’t.

 

Perhaps I need to ask Innuos. 
 

 

Restarting the app multiple times is a nuisance. 

Fair call  I've not dealt with Innuos directly but from what I've read people who have report positively

[Hydrology]

2 hours ago, Kirby66 said:

Do you leave your Zen on just as 'good policy' or is there an extended period of warming up for a Zen which changes SQ? Cheers Mark

 

Both! 

[Kirby66]

1 minute ago, Hydrology said:

 

Both! 

Excellent - I will leave it on !! thanks 

[Thelastjedi]

11 hours ago, Gryffles said:

I’ve just started using Innuos Sense app as I just got a used Zenith.

 

This app disconnects nearly every time I minimise the app or the screen times out. When I open it just shows the loading symbol
 

I then close the app and reopen and often it will fail to locate the server or I get the loading symbol again

 

The Zenith has latest updates 

 

Before I contact Innuos am I missing something here?

 

I’m still learning how to use the Sense app. It wasn’t around when I had a Zen Mini

 

By the way the Zenith is starting to impress but needs a few more hours as it’s got a brand new mobo 

This happens to me all the time with my Zen Mk2. It is annoying. The only way is to power it off from the front button which I think isnt good for the unit.

[Kinsella]

3 hours ago, Gryffles said:

Mk ii or Mk3

 

Mines a mk ii. 

Mine is Mk3

[Gryffles]

To be clear my issue isnt related to or solved by restarting the server.

 

Closing and restarting the app fixes it however this isn’t much fun or how it’s supposed to work

[Thelastjedi]

4 minutes ago, Gryffles said:

To be clear my issue isnt related to or solved by restarting the server.

 

Closing and restarting the app fixes it however this isn’t much fun or how it’s supposed to work

This is how it started for me. Now it will not get out of the loading screen unless you turn off the unit from the front.

[Hydrology]

For those who switch their units of regularly and have issues - I set mine to static/fixed IP since day one and its been bulletproof.

[Gryffles]

Ok seems like I’m not missing anything.

 

I’ll contact Innuos for a fix 

[Kirby66]

4 hours ago, Hydrology said:

For those who switch their units of regularly and have issues - I set mine to static/fixed IP since day one and its been bulletproof.

I believe you may be onto something there @Hydrology - I will add that my experience from day one has been faultless, even though I used to turn my Zen off after each listening session (USED to !! ) and I haven't set my router / Zen to fixed IP's ... any time the router restarts, which is rare, it assigns a new IP but it all hooks up no problem. It sound more like an issue with Sense and possibly the network so good suggestion to use a static IP 

[Kinsella]

@Hydrology thanks for the static address suggestion.  Did not know that was possible.  I've now set one up (at least  I think I've done that correctly).  Will see how that goes.

[Gryffles]

My Zenith has a few hours on it now and its startng to show its true colours. Very impressive! 

 

I purchased it used however it had a brand new mobo installed so needs a bit of time. Sounded bright straight out of the box and still is a little. 

 

Great combination with my Lampizator dac

 

 

[Hydrology]

Something that was overlooked but may be of interest to some Innuos forum members is the introduction of streaming platform IDAGIO in the next (2.3) Sense update!

 

 

[StereoNET]

The new Innuos ZENmini S packs SSD and uprated RAM and is based on the popular ZENmini Mk3 music server and streamer. 

View the full article

[frankn]

Is anyone using a Zen Mini connected via USB to a PS Audio Directstream DAC (running Sunlight)?

Last night, with the wonderful assistance of @Grizzlywe tried the above. 

Have hit a snag.
Initially, we received music when playing a 44.1/16 file from the internal hard drive. 

BUT, then tried switching to a higher resolution file the sound stopped (dropped out?). 

The DS indicated it had recognised the change to a higher resolution file but no sound.  Going back to 44.1 internal file also produced no sound. 

 From then on it wouldn’t play anything via Mini-USB without a hard reboot (switch off power at back of DS to re-initialise unit).  Tried a couple of USB cables I have around, including a Paul Peng which I used to use with with the PerfectWave DAC. 

Today I Tried a Belkin certified USB 2.0 cable.  Same result. Had to re-boot DAC to get file to play, listened to a couple of files on the hard drive of the Zen then silence. I guess the USB has dropped out again. 
The I2S is working fine throughout this exercise so it’s only USB. 

 

I was hoping that a step into servers /streaming would be plug and play…The sound when it worked was good. 

Much appreciated if anyone can shed any light on the issue and point towards a resolution. 

 

Cheers.