Hydrology Posted January 20, 2022 Author Posted January 20, 2022 @mattjtaylor2809 I have read anecdotal evidence that suggests having your Core somewhere else and using the Innuos as a transport/End Point is a sonic improvement, but to me that seems counter-intuitive to own a server, but use it as a streamer (only). Would imagine bigger gains had buying a product built to be an end point only. I have also read anecdotal evidence that suggest multiple ERs in a system have a cumulative effect, but not something I have tried.
mattjtaylor2809 Posted January 20, 2022 Posted January 20, 2022 8 hours ago, Hydrology said: @mattjtaylor2809 I have read anecdotal evidence that suggests having your Core somewhere else and using the Innuos as a transport/End Point is a sonic improvement, but to me that seems counter-intuitive to own a server, but use it as a streamer (only). Would imagine bigger gains had buying a product built to be an end point only. I have also read anecdotal evidence that suggest multiple ERs in a system have a cumulative effect, but not something I have tried. Yes, I've read the same...few guys overseas have introduced a Mano from Magna hi-fi with much success. https://magnahifi.com/mano-ultra-music-streamer-high-res/ It does then render the Innous as just your core & the Mano the end point/streamer but it's supposed to be very good & converts RJ45 to I2S which for me is of interest as I have I2S an input on the my DAC but as you say, seems counter-intuitive. What I'm more likely to do is to invest in a Gustard U18 DDC & place this just in front of my DAC....would move the ER in front of the Innous using it's SFP fibre. https://www.audiophile-store.com.au/products/gustard-u18-usb-interface-fully-isolation-k2-ultra-low-noise-clock-synthesizer-dsd512-pcm768khz-xu216?variant=39533682163785¤cy=AUD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2020-06-30&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk5r0mqzB9QIVhJlmAh3MBgRAEAQYAiABEgKSkPD_BwE Cheers all Matt
Hydrology Posted January 20, 2022 Author Posted January 20, 2022 I suppose this solution works for those who already own an Innuos or other server - I guess my point is dont buy a server to solely work as a streamer, buy a better streamer to begin with.
mattjtaylor2809 Posted January 21, 2022 Posted January 21, 2022 Agreed but things do move on sometimes. having said that, I’m very happy with my Innous as my ROON Core & streamer, most of my tweaks are more to do with squeezing more out of my PS Audio DAC, especially the change from Ethernet into its Bridge to I2S. I will not be changing my Innous for a while, if at all. Cheers Matt
mattjtaylor2809 Posted January 21, 2022 Posted January 21, 2022 Quick update....I've now installed the new switch (Mikrotik CSS610 about $170) & set up the SFP+ output to the ER & wow.... Maybe its because its a Friday, or I have buyers prejudice but I don't think this change is subtle. I don't understand why it should make a difference but it does?? So, this is my Current "Happy" State: Removing the TP Link MC1110 media converters & installing the switch with the SFP+ output has not only made it a simpler config, it's just more crisp, detailed, more detail, more bass but more defined. Am I going mad, maybe! 2
mattjtaylor2809 Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 BTW...if I were to place the ER in between the Innous & DAC, would I need to connect both LAN & STREAMER ports? i.e. like in the picture below, both LAN & STREAMER connected to the ER or do I only need to connect the LAN port?
mattjtaylor2809 Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 If I were to move the CORE from the Innous (plus my music library which I imported & back up on an attached HD), what suggestions do people have? I don't want it back on my home PC (means I hsve to have the PC on all the time & it's the other side of the house) so the solution would need to be separate. I've looked at a NAS in the past but to run ROON you need memory so last time I looked into it I ended thinking it was an expensive solution.....something I thought the Innous Zen Mini would solve. Are we then talking a NUC? Cheers Matt
frednork Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 On 21/01/2022 at 5:37 PM, mattjtaylor2809 said: Quick update....I've now installed the new switch (Mikrotik CSS610 about $170) & set up the SFP+ output to the ER & wow.... Maybe its because its a Friday, or I have buyers prejudice but I don't think this change is subtle. I don't understand why it should make a difference but it does?? So, this is my Current "Happy" State: Removing the TP Link MC1110 media converters & installing the switch with the SFP+ output has not only made it a simpler config, it's just more crisp, detailed, more detail, more bass but more defined. Am I going mad, maybe! Am not surprised. I had the mc220 and I didnt like them at all. super dull
mattjtaylor2809 Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 The MC110's did deaden the noise floor, maybe they also deadened everything else? Quick Question: If I were to remove the ROON Core (presumably to reduce computer activity & therefore noise), what about the music stored on its HD, is that's ok? We're simply talking about removing ROON core from the Innous so it act's as an streamer only?
frednork Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 40 minutes ago, mattjtaylor2809 said: The MC110's did deaden the noise floor, maybe they also deadened everything else? Quick Question: If I were to remove the ROON Core (presumably to reduce computer activity & therefore noise), what about the music stored on its HD, is that's ok? We're simply talking about removing ROON core from the Innous so it act's as an streamer only? yes the microtik may be good but also coming from a low quality base (the mc110's) You can move the core elsewhere, but its not ideal, But neither is using the zen core as an endpoint. By leaving music files on there you are partially defeating any benefit of removing the core so not great. you shouldnt need both eth connections from the zen to the ER. They are setup like that to allow direct connection to a streamer. A nuc is probably the simplest if you do want to run the core elsewhere. It may give you a small improvement but unless you put some effort into the server it may also go the other way. Looking now at the spec for the Zen I see why you are thinking this way and it may be worth a shot but I suspect unless you put some effort into the server (latest gen allowable for rock and decent lps) then it could just as easily go backwards. It may be more cost effective and a definite forward step, to get something like the mano, or if you are computer savvy then building your own pi based endpoint for less money.
mattjtaylor2809 Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) I've now placed the ER in between the Innous (connected via A side into LAN port) & my PS Audio DAC (via B side into my BridgeII port). Not sure if the music is better or just different, certainly more detail but my 1st impression was that it didn't knit together but that could be due to me being used to the timing being out & I'm onky just now hearing things as they should?? Apologies for the pic quality but you can see the Cat8 cable from the B side into the Bridge on the PS Audio DirectStream Jnr below We will see how this goes for a week or 2 Edited January 24, 2022 by mattjtaylor2809 1
mattjtaylor2809 Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 2 hours ago, frednork said: You can move the core elsewhere, but its not ideal, But neither is using the zen core as an endpoint. By leaving music files on there you are partially defeating any benefit of removing the core so not great. HI @frednork I can understand by moving the core elsewhere is reduces the amount of "work" to Innous needs to do, reducing noise but I can't buy the "removing the music files" from the Innous, otherwise, whats the point of the Innous? You also said it's not ideal to "move the core elsewhere"...what did you mean by this, if it not great on the Innous, where else can you put it, what would be ideal then? 2 hours ago, frednork said: A nuc is probably the simplest if you do want to run the core elsewhere. It may give you a small improvement but unless you put some effort into the server it may also go the other way. Looking now at the spec for the Zen I see why you are thinking this way and it may be worth a shot but I suspect unless you put some effort into the server (latest gen allowable for rock and decent lps) then it could just as easily go backwards. It may be more cost effective and a definite forward step, to get something like the mano, or if you are computer savvy then building your own pi based endpoint for less money. My Innous server/streamer isn't going anywhere anytime soon so at this point in time I'm only looking to improve SQ using the Innous. Regarding your comment about "putting some effort into the server" is could go the other way? The purpose of improving the switch/installing the ER "moat" was to protect the "cleanliness" of final signal into my DAC, if I have a NUC with just running my CORE, how could this make things worse?
frednork Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 51 minutes ago, mattjtaylor2809 said: HI @frednork I can understand by moving the core elsewhere is reduces the amount of "work" to Innous needs to do, reducing noise but I can't buy the "removing the music files" from the Innous, otherwise, whats the point of the Innous? You also said it's not ideal to "move the core elsewhere"...what did you mean by this, if it not great on the Innous, where else can you put it, what would be ideal then? Sorry probably wasnt clear. The Zen is designed as a server so it will work best as a server. Some of the things they have done to make it a good quailty server would probably make it better than a simple nuc as an endpoint. If you have a nuc lying around its fair enough to try offload roon server duties onto it or something else and see how well the zen performs as an endpoint without having to run roon on it as well. But If you need to buy stuff to try this I think it not worthwhile as the zen will not perform as well as an endpoint as a dedicated endpoint. Bt the time you diy a decent server (nuc and power supply) you would probably be a long way towards an off the shelf endpoint or way over the cost of a pi based endpoint. If you leave the music files on the Zen then what happens is that the files have to go from there to wherever your server is now and then back again. All this extra activity is reducing whatever benefit you may be getting by moving the roon core off there in the first place. In the end its too many half measures. If you have the stuff lying about then by all means try but am not sure spending money to specifically achieve what you have described is worthwhile. Essentially you want all the intensive cpu and data stuff on the server and a minimum of activity on the endpoint.
mattjtaylor2809 Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 Ok, makes more sense now...I don't have a NUC lying around so maybe best to leave as is. I didn't think of the music files having to travel back to the core & then back to the Innous server > ROON end point. In my current set up, even with the ER in-between the Innous Server & my PS Audio, the DSJnr Bridge is acting as my ROON end-point. When playing ROON (un my main music room), I've never used the Zen as an end-point except when I tried USB for all of about 5 mins & went back to the PS Audio Bridge.
GC Hifi Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Hi Matt, I'm sure you already know this, but I tend to leave any changes I make to my systems running for at least 24 hours then have another serious listen. You may be on occassion pleasantly surprised at how much components and cables settle down and improve after running for a day or two. cheers, Terry Edited January 24, 2022 by GC HiFi
mattjtaylor2809 Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 Thanks Terry, I’ve been running music through my system all day today so I’ll wonder in & have another listen after 6+ hours & then again tomorrow etc.. My system was stone cold this morning so I’m sure it will sound better now simply as it’s warmed up but I’m also hoping settling down after a few changes. cheers matt 1
mattjtaylor2809 Posted January 27, 2022 Posted January 27, 2022 Hi Guys, Just decided on a whim to remove my ROON CORE back top my office laptop & use the Innous with the sense app. The process has been relatively easy but I'm assuming this only work if you're connected to a DAC via USB or will it also work via STREAMER out to a DAC via RJ45? Cheers Matt
arpasquill Posted February 6, 2022 Posted February 6, 2022 Hi everyone, Might be a pointless question, but can the CD ripper be used as a transport? Cheers
Hydrology Posted February 6, 2022 Author Posted February 6, 2022 33 minutes ago, arpasquill said: Hi everyone, Might be a pointless question, but can the CD ripper be used as a transport? Cheers No 1
arpasquill Posted February 6, 2022 Posted February 6, 2022 Yeah I didn't think so but I've read things that seemed...well....wrong! Cheers
Hydrology Posted March 29, 2022 Author Posted March 29, 2022 Probably already obvious to some (but not me as I didnt have one on hand) , but I can confirm that Innuos servers will rip MQA CDs just fine. 3
Silver Audiophile Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 22 minutes ago, Hydrology said: Probably already obvious to some (but not me as I didnt have one on hand) , but I can confirm that Innuos servers will rip MQA CDs just fine. An MQA CD is a Red Book CD and is 100% compatible with any existing CD player. The audio on the disc is MQA-encoded PCM, and will play back happily without a decoder. In this case, the sound quality is slightly better than a typical CD, because the audio is already de-blurred in the studio. However. if the bitstream is passed to an MQA decoder, it is unfolded to 176kHz (in this case) and rendered to the DAC at 24-bit. https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-encoded-cds-yes?msclkid=ae290a6caf1911ec8f83b2f65f6ec3a7 Another question, the Innuos streamer is streaming Tidal MQA only as FLAC files?
Hydrology Posted March 29, 2022 Author Posted March 29, 2022 7 minutes ago, Silver Audiophile said: Another question, the Innuos streamer is streaming Tidal MQA only as FLAC files? Yep, I knew what MQA was, but was curious how servers would handle it. With your other question though, I don't follow - are you referring to the pic above? For some reason that version in Roon only shows a FLAC version (16-bit versus Qobuz's 24-bit version)
Silver Audiophile Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hydrology said: Yep, I knew what MQA was, but was curious how servers would handle it. With your other question though, I don't follow - are you referring to the pic above? For some reason that version in Roon only shows a FLAC version (16-bit versus Qobuz's 24-bit version) On my Innuos Zen Mk 3, I believe it plays back all Tidal tracks (I have the highest Tidal HiFi membership) as 'FLAC' files. I never see the term 'MQA' appear, as I do when say playing back some Tidal tracks on my iMac desktop with the Tidal app. Yes, in the picture above, it does list some titles as 'MQA' and others 'FLAC'.
Hydrology Posted March 29, 2022 Author Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) Pic below shows an MQA streaming:- And then the "Black Coffee" album which isnt stored as MQA according to Roon:- Edited March 29, 2022 by Hydrology
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