Snoopy8 Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 Welcome @GaryT to the small band here that listen to multi channel and Atmos music in a proper setup. @powerav and I are the regulars who post more. I use QQ Surround Polls to guide me. If you enter Atmos on the search box, you will see a list of the good ones (but note that some voters do not have Atmos). Atmos music are either: - recorded to create the ambience of the concert hall e.g. John Williams in Vienna - recorded to create ambience for multi channel recordings with instruments all round e.g. 2L Lux (which won Grammy) - produced to use all channels e.g. Yello: Point. The last is rare, although SDE are releasing more recently. But lots of the first category, not recorded but upmixed on streaming services. I used to think upmixing is poor to bad but recently have been experimenting with Auro 3D (Atmos competitor), which has settings for size of hall and how much upmixing. It worked reasonably well with music with reverb, and live recordings. This could explain why @powerav liked some of the streamed Apple Atmos music (and maybe Apple has a more advanced Dolby upmixer???). It helps when you already know the music and then can appreciate the spatial version. Interestingly, I do not listen to electronica, but now do so because of multi channel and Atmos mixes from Yello, Kraftwerk, Tomita etc. Looking forward to more people contributing to this thread.... 2
powerav Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Snoopy8 said: It worked reasonably well with music with reverb, and live recordings. This could explain why @powerav liked some of the streamed Apple Atmos music (and maybe Apple has a more advanced Dolby upmixer???). With all due respect I absolutely disagree with this, I can't stand up mixing of any kind and stay way clear of any Apple Music Atmos that has it. My main listening music on apple music is either just a direct stream of for example a Steven Wilson mixed album like Tears for Fears Tipping Point or his latest The Who - Who's Next, sure I understand it's a lower bit rate but it just like a streaming movie, not as good as the 4k bluray disc but pretty damn close.
powerav Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 Not sure if this will work but here is my playlist of some pretty awesome Atmos tracks. Can find it here on this page, I’m Bretho72 https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/listening-to-in-dolby-atmos-streaming-via-tidal-apple-amazon.31491/page-349 1 1
Snoopy8 Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, powerav said: With all due respect I absolutely disagree with this, I can't stand up mixing of any kind and stay way clear of any Apple Music Atmos that has it. So, all the albums and tracks that you have cited are all mixed in Atmos? And are they available outside of Apple Music? 1
Guest Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 I think we need to maintain our own list of verified good Atmos mixes, and not just re/up/mash sampled ones. I'd be up for that. All was going well until Apple decided to join the party and remix everything to Spatial! 95% of the ones I have heard are rubbish and it sort of put me off a format I was really just starting to get into. 1
cafe67 Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 New from SDE , interesting list of tracks https://superdeluxeedition.com/news/trevor-horn-echoes-ancient-modern/
Snoopy8 Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 9 hours ago, Marc said: All was going well until Apple decided to join the party and remix everything to Spatial! 95% of the ones I have heard are rubbish and it sort of put me off a format I was really just starting to get into. Thank you. I was inching towards "maybe one day I will give Apple Music a go for its collection of Atmos" but now won't. As I posted earlier, remix can work for some music and I stupidly thought Apple would be vetting and releasing only the better ones. But remixing everything???
Snoopy8 Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 New from SDE. I have a track from an old multi channel album and it is excellent. It is popular and SDE closed pre-orders within a day last week, but have since increased their production run. Note that SDE SQ can range from good to superb, but hoping this is the latter... https://www.thesdeshop.com/products/van-morrison-moondance-blu-ray-audio-with-dolby-atmos-mix?_pos=1&_sid=0a758160a&_ss=r
powerav Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Snoopy8 said: Thank you. I was inching towards "maybe one day I will give Apple Music a go for its collection of Atmos" but now won't. As I posted earlier, remix can work for some music and I stupidly thought Apple would be vetting and releasing only the better ones. But remixing everything??? This is just not right and some facts need to be checked first surely 1
Snoopy8 Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, powerav said: This is just not right and some facts need to be checked first surely While you may not like upmixing, it is not that bad for live performances. But to each their own.... 4 minutes ago, powerav said: How on earth is Point by Yellow an upmix I have the Atmos BD P/s not my intention to provoke...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 I think the Atmos/Spatial music on Apple needs to be put into perspective, we already now we aren't the target market for Apple but theres some nuggets hiding under the surface that some purists would even enjoy. Like it or loath it, what Apple are providing for very little money is a bit of fun and some of the recordings are very enjoyable to listen to even in 5.1 which I do. Sure some of the Atmos mixes are rubbish but if you just set your expectations to accept that and look to find the albums that have been mixed for Atmos and listen to those, they can certainly get your toe tapping and allow you to enjoy music in a different way. If you are a purist you can choose to buy the Atmos BDs, if you are a person like I am that just enjoys exploring music across a number of platforms (stereo, music video, surround) an Apple subscription along with an Apple TV 4K would be a great addition to any surround sound set-up, you also get he perk of streaming lossless audio to you hi-fi albeit typically over airplay which is less than ideal but hey. For the purists id also think its also a great way to trial the new Atmos recordings before spending the dollars for the disc. 3
powerav Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 Also to me the word spatial is only for those listening through headphones which I know would be 99.9 percent of the the users so I’m happy that I’m aware of the fully discrete tittles that are available and yes I also have the yellow Blu-ray Disc and there is no difference between that and streaming. 2
Guest Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, powerav said: How on earth is Point by Yellow an upmix It's not, and it's an exceptional release that was written to take advantage of spatial cues from the get-go. If I triggered this response, I apologise, but IME so far "most" of what I have heard under Spatial Audio on Apple has been rubbish - nowhere in the same league as Point. I suspect and have a hunch most of what is being upmixed is optimised for those using Apple devices (Airpods Pro Max etc) that have spatial features, and not discrete multichannel cinemas. They probably sound great on those devices but I haven't tested.
Guest Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 Sorry didn't see your last post before I replied - so I guess we are in agreement then. Spatial is for spatial enabled headphones, and that's about it. 1
powerav Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 7 hours ago, Snoopy8 said: New from SDE. I have a track from an old multi channel album and it is excellent. It is popular and SDE closed pre-orders within a day last week, but have since increased their production run. Note that SDE SQ can range from good to superb, but hoping this is the latter... https://www.thesdeshop.com/products/van-morrison-moondance-blu-ray-audio-with-dolby-atmos-mix?_pos=1&_sid=0a758160a&_ss=r This is definitely something you can try on Apple Music and trust me it ain’t no upmix 1
powerav Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) The saxophone is very discretely coming from this overhead speaker. Edited October 11, 2023 by powerav
powerav Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 Others seem to agree. And the future is looking bright with Steven Wilson pushing for lossless streaming. 1
Snoopy8 Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 13 minutes ago, powerav said: This is definitely something you can try on Apple Music and trust me it ain’t no upmix Never doubted in first place with those releases . Trying Atmos tracks will be the only reason to go Apple Music but Atmos music is still only part time passion.
Guest Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 I'll buy/stream anything Steven Wilson puts his hand (and ears) too honestly. He gets it, and is a big advocate for it being done properly.
betty boop Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) ive been watching music videos since as a teenager and hooking up even fake surrounds from before dolby surround was even a thing.. i had dolby prologic when it was possible ...and dolby digital and upgraded when Ex and dts-ES was a thing.. then all the lossless formants and soon followed with 3D audio when it appeared on scene ...to a 9.1.6 set-up now days and do very much enjoy atmos music... but if look in the apple music thread and when atmos mixes hit the apple music library...I was also one of first to call out with track after track i was listening to .. just how fake a lot of it was ! i remember posting that marvin gaye i am pretty sure is not supposed to be hanging from the ceiling when he his doing his famous rendition of what's going on and i have this on 2ch, multichannel sacd you name it the problem with a lot of atmos mixes for music streamed off apple is they have simply upsampled the cr@p out of them literally for what i think is a poorer result in many case.. that said there is much i listen and watch and enjoy and will keep doing ... On 10/10/2023 at 3:56 PM, Snoopy8 said: I used to think upmixing is poor to bad but recently have been experimenting with Auro 3D (Atmos competitor), which has settings for size of hall and how much upmixing. It worked reasonably well with music with reverb, and live recordings this is something i called out in the apple music thread too with atmos mixes is for the fake atmos unmixed songs .. in most cases if use auro3D as the up mixer instead, i have found it does a much better job... on other hand, you can just sit back and listen with a less critical ear too and as back ground music and not listening critically ,a lot of stuff in apple music library is quite listenable and enjoyable... true atmos multichannel music discs ? rare as hens teeth ? its turning out a bit like sacd and dvd-a multichannel music that i still have many discs on, but it was a bit of a walled garden in some ways and still is with little to no new releases.. Edited October 11, 2023 by betty boop 2
powerav Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) This is just extremely un true. It seems most are judging on when atmos music on Apple was first released. I have made YouTube videos on how bad it was but even most of those original upmix albums have been removed. For example, Dream Theater had images and words and Awake was in upmix atmos and got removed shortly later and is back to stereo. Edited October 11, 2023 by powerav
powerav Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 I also went through the early days of surround. Pro logic with stereo sources, looking for vhs tapes with the dolby surround in fine print on the back, getting laserdisc players modified to get the rf digital out so we’ve all been there. I just think it’s amazing I now have a multichannel music megastore at my finger tips, I may have to wait days or weeks for a decent atmos mix to come out but it’s worth it. 1
Guest Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 So what you are saying is that all the Spatial Audio on Apple Music is now great, and not upmixes/remixes, and all those have been removed? Should I give it another go?
betty boop Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, Marc said: So what you are saying is that all the Spatial Audio on Apple Music is now great, and not upmixes/remixes, and all those have been removed? Should I give it another go? as with anything check out for yourself. might be something happy with or not.. thats probably really upto your sensibilities ...
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