NAD C298

[Suopermanni]

2 hours ago, lemarquis said:

After several months (Covid) delay getting Purifi modules into the country, my P452 is finally being shipped this week. Will initially run it direct from the Klein DAC. Looking forward to it  

 

Would like to hear how it goes as well as I'm thinking of buying a unit or two.

[lemarquis]

P452 arrived this afternoon. Sounds good out of the box. Will put some hours on it now. (Any idea of approx. burn in time?).

 

We now have a 100% Aust made system  March audio amp, Klein DAC, Halcro DP and Osborn speakers. Actually only the power cord is foreign...

[lemarquis]

After 2 evenings of listening I can safely say that the P452 Purifi amp is on an altogether other level to anything I've heard before. The difference is not subtle, sideways or just a noticeable improvement. It is just effortlessly musical. 

 

I will be writing up a review to be posted separately  

[Pigpen]

59 minutes ago, lemarquis said:

After 2 evenings of listening I can safely say that the P452 Purifi amp is on an altogether other level to anything I've heard before. The difference is not subtle, sideways or just a noticeable improvement. It is just effortlessly musical. 

 

I have found the March Audio units different as well - they lack the "warmth" of my bigger amplifiers, however, this is an observation, not a criticism. I have found that some poorly recorded material becomes a little fatiguing to listen to at higher volume levels as it become somewhat sharp, otherwise, pretty well happy / impressed with the Eigentakt kit.

[lemarquis]

2 minutes ago, Pigpen said:

 

I have found the March Audio units different as well - they lack the "warmth" of my bigger amplifiers, however, this is an observation, not a criticism. I have found that some poorly recorded material becomes a little fatiguing to listen to at higher volume levels as it become somewhat sharp, otherwise, pretty well happy / impressed with the Eigentakt kit.

Interesting. Lack of warmth is certainly not a term I would apply. On the poorly recorded material - I have found that it is easy to pick up what isn't an ideal recording but at the same time it is still enjoyable. Last night I compared the original issue CD of Hotel California (slightly muddy in places) to the later remastered Hi Res version which was noticeably improved. 

The Purifi does reveal what is there and any limitations but I wouldn't say it's a case of only feeding it good material. Thankfully most of my CDs and Hi Res files are well done  

[Tony@melb]

I agree with @lemarquis . With the P452 amp, I find that any change in the chain of connections from source to preamp to the power amp becomes very noticeable. For instance, I swapped three different sets of tubes (NOS Mullard, NOS Tungsram, new issue Mullard) in the preamp. The warmth of the Tungsram tubes and the clarity of NOS Mullard tubes become very noticeable. I also swapped from power supply to battery for Chord Qutest and the clarity improved dramatically.  Certain bad recordings sounded more awful!!!  I think the P452 is very revealing. Whatever music or noise is passed from upstream is faithfully amplified.

[Pigpen]

5 hours ago, lemarquis said:

Interesting. Lack of warmth is certainly not a term I would apply. On the poorly recorded material - I have found that it is easy to pick up what isn't an ideal recording but at the same time it is still enjoyable. Last night I compared the original issue CD of Hotel California (slightly muddy in places) to the later remastered Hi Res version which was noticeably improved. 

The Purifi does reveal what is there and any limitations but I wouldn't say it's a case of only feeding it good material. Thankfully most of my CDs and Hi Res files are well done  

I have previously had Krell / Mark Levinson (by ML, not Harman) / ME / SGR / Technics / Consonance with the bigger transistor and the valves a warmer sound I found I liked. The March Audio is a bit "cooler / clinical" to my failing ears (hi def V hi deaf) - an observation, definitely not a criticism!!

 

Hotel California - I have it on tape / vinyl / CD / DVD-A / SACD and hi res and I agree with your comments - the hi res version / SACD / DVD-A are better sounding to me.

 

The March Audio units impress me greatly (easy to transport) and are the first amplifiers I hav owned in a long time that weigh less than my wife.........

[Tony@melb]

4 minutes ago, Pigpen said:

I have previously had Krell / Mark Levinson (by ML, not Harman) / ME / SGR / Technics / Consonance with the bigger transistor and the valves a warmer sound I found I liked. The March Audio is a bit "cooler / clinical" to my failing ears (hi def V hi deaf) - an observation, definitely not a criticism!!

 

Hotel California - I have it on tape / vinyl / CD / DVD-A / SACD and hi res and I agree with your comments - the hi res version / SACD / DVD-A are better sounding to me.

 

The March Audio units impress me greatly (easy to transport) and are the first amplifiers I hav owned in a long time that weigh less than my wife.........

Perhaps you might find a "warm" preamp / DAC to balance the sound. I had a "warm" set of monoblocks previously but I prefer the P452 because now I have one less variable to deal with. I know if I get a preamp that is to my liking I can rely on the P452 to faithfully reproduce the music.

I like that it is light also and doesn't require another 2 solar panels to fuel it.

[Pigpen]

1 minute ago, Tony@melb said:

I like that it is light also and doesn't require another 2 solar panels to fuel it.

I used to use my ME1500 as a room heater during winter when I first moved to Sydney.

 

Currently using a NAD C268 as a pre amp - after a few early glitches, now working well, very happy with the system sound - NAD - March Audio - VAF i93.

[lemarquis]

It may be the sources and my set up which I have settled on after a few years. Both the GroB DAC and the Halcro present what I find to be a very nice organic sound. I was a bit apprehensive using the DAC directly into the P452 thinking it might be a bit 'digital' sounding (also having had to forego the analog outs of the Halcro and use spdf). 

 

So far I have no reservations. The DAC and Halcro sound better than ever. There is a liquidity to the overall presentation of the music and an ease which never gives the impression that anything is being forced or pushed forward. I guess that's what they mean when they say 'neutral'. Certainly no hint of dryness or any other artefact supposedly connected with Class D. As @Tony@melb noted you do get the sense that it really presents faithfully what it is fed. If you get that right then it's all gravy. @Pigpen I also have multiple versions of HC (except the vinyl) and feel now I can listen and critique each one more meaningfully. Same same the rest of the collection. 

 

There might be a pre amp in the future although that doesn't seem an imperative at this stage. Next step is a curious evolved usb cable (ordered) and then looking at a better cable for the transport. Happy days.

[Tony@melb]

1 hour ago, lemarquis said:

It may be the sources and my set up which I have settled on after a few years. Both the GroB DAC and the Halcro present what I find to be a very nice organic sound. I was a bit apprehensive using the DAC directly into the P452 thinking it might be a bit 'digital' sounding (also having had to forego the analog outs of the Halcro and use spdf). 

 

So far I have no reservations. The DAC and Halcro sound better than ever. There is a liquidity to the overall presentation of the music and an ease which never gives the impression that anything is being forced or pushed forward. I guess that's what they mean when they say 'neutral'. Certainly no hint of dryness or any other artefact supposedly connected with Class D. As @Tony@melb noted you do get the sense that it really presents faithfully what it is fed. If you get that right then it's all gravy. @Pigpen I also have multiple versions of HC (except the vinyl) and feel now I can listen and critique each one more meaningfully. Same same the rest of the collection. 

 

There might be a pre amp in the future although that doesn't seem an imperative at this stage. Next step is a curious evolved usb cable (ordered) and then looking at a better cable for the transport. Happy days.

Nice gear that you have   It's true that when one hears good sound coming out of a system, one can then focus on the music instead of trying to pick what is not right in the system.

I plugged a Chord TT DAC directly into the P452 through XLR.  Whilst it is clear it's not musical and not not nearly as nice as having a tube preamp in between.

 

 

[Pigpen]

Updated pics of the March Audio units:

 

The firs pic is of the Bunning's Door Stop units on the amplifiers - many will say to "improve the sound" - "clean up" noise etc.

 

The "clean up" bit is right.

 

The second pic shows the culprit who left me with a little something this morning on one of the amps........it required "cleaning up".

 

The Bunning's Door Stops are now acting as "feline defecation deterrent modules"...........

 

 

 

 

[Pigpen]

Seriously thinking about getting a pet rock or even a pet brick like Father Jack Hackett on Father Ted….

[kukynas]

6 hours ago, Pigpen said:

Updated pics of the March Audio units:

 

The firs pic is of the Bunning's Door Stop units on the amplifiers - many will say to "improve the sound" - "clean up" noise etc.

 

The "clean up" bit is right.

 

The second pic shows the culprit who left me with a little something this morning on one of the amps........it required "cleaning up".

 

The Bunning's Door Stops are now acting as "feline defecation deterrent modules"...........

 

 

 

 

don’t know what you are talking about, look at that innocent face

[lemarquis]

28 minutes ago, kukynas said:

don’t know what you are talking about, look at that innocent face

Innocent? That face is saying "You talkin' to me?' 

[BugPowderDust]

I dug this thread up after reading a pile of reviews of the c298 (forums and trade tags like stereophile) and they really piqued my interest.

 

I’m a bit surprised at the QA issues mentioned here, but they sound like teething issues on early adopter amplifiers.
 

These seem seriously under rated in terms of power, with the c298 demonstrating close on 1kW of power in a bridged deployment in testing. It is also one of the very few Purifi implementations that offers a bridged setup and, with damping factor in excess, it might actually be a pretty good option for those of us with nominally 8 ohm speakers.

 

a pair of these is circa $5k and gives you a pair of serious mono blocks which seem the best sounding of the new generation of class d.
 

Given the measured performance in the reviews, I’m surprised there hasn’t been more activity about these. 
 

they seem to be stiff competition for the benchmark ahb2 and any hypex based commercial amp today.

[BugPowderDust]

A few reviews with actual testing result…

 

Stereophile: https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-c-298-power-amplifier

Sound Stage Hifi: https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/1528-nad-c298-stereo-mono-amplifier

[Pigpen]

5 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said:

I dug this thread up after reading a pile of reviews of the c298 (forums and trade tags like stereophile) and they really piqued my interest.

 

I’m a bit surprised at the QA issues mentioned here, but they sound like teething issues on early adopter amplifiers.
 

These seem seriously under rated in terms of power, with the c298 demonstrating close on 1kW of power in a bridged deployment in testing. It is also one of the very few Purifi implementations that offers a bridged setup and, with damping factor in excess, it might actually be a pretty good option for those of us with nominally 8 ohm speakers.

 

a pair of these is circa $5k and gives you a pair of serious mono blocks which seem the best sounding of the new generation of class d.
 

Given the measured performance in the reviews, I’m surprised there hasn’t been more activity about these. 
 

they seem to be stiff competition for the benchmark ahb2 and any hypex based commercial amp today.

Teething problems aside, I found the 298  to be pretty decent. There are meant to be issues when bridging into 4 ohm speakers, however, I am yet to read about anyone experiencing the overload cut out associated with this as advised by NAD.

[Grizaudio]

Some feedback….
 

I run 3x c298s for an active 3 way speaker setup. 
 

I have nothing but good words for these amps. Especially the variable module gain. 
 

I had a firmware issue, but had my units updated. They have been rock solid ever since. 
 

My c298s will soon power JBL M2s. Great amplifiers. 

 

I actually sold my Firstwatt F7, after using the c298s for sometime. 
 

The Stereophile measurements show these amplifiers are SNR monsters with power ratings well under-rated into 8ohm loads. 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Grizaudio

[Skeptical]

My C298, which is for sale, sounded excellent with my Focal Aria 926 speakers. Very revealing,  detailed,  fast, plenty of tonal richness. While I  have gone tubular and old style speakers (at least the look), if just think about the sound I could live with it for a very long time, I  am sure. I connected it to my new heresy iv and it sounded promising....speakers had only 10 hours on them so not showing their true selves. If mine does not sell soon and the heresies have come up to speed I'll do another session.

 

I'd predict that with 99 dB speakers the need for bridging is not so great, and the dynamics of both amp and speakers should combine to get me jumping at sudden drumbeats and such. 

 

One album that the 298/Focal combo really made a difference with was The Who live at leeds remaster on Qobuz. Very live presentation. A very powerful performance given the power it needed to teleport me back in time...mission accomplished.  That alone was worth the price. BTW I'm getting a very similar experience with the tubular setup, so I'm ok about moving it on now.

 

Apologies if the above seems to pushing my FS ad....really not my intention. 

[Lil Caesar]

I have run my pair of C298's in both mono and stereo into Kef R11's.  I'm sticking with stereo mode for now as I am able to Bi-Amp courtesy of my Minidsp SHD pre-amp processor.  With Dirac enabled and the target curve tweaked to my liking I cannot honestly see how anyone could be left wanting more.   The power delivery is so effortless that one quickly becomes complacent as to how well they are performing their role. 

[Noypi888]

Today marks 1 year of owning the NAD C298 and I am very pleased with it, never missed a beat of effortlessly driving my Dynaudio Contour S1.4....very happy with it  

[NonPlayableCharacter]

I have a C298 on loan from @BugPowderDust at the moment whilst I wait for some other changes in my system and maintenance on my McIntosh monos to be completed.

 

I am driving a pair of Fyne F704 speakers from the C298 which is fed by XLR interconnects from my Arcam AV41. I have switched Dirac off for now (was using Live Bass Control to help with timing for my subs which I just sold) and I have configured the Arcam to run the Fynes as full range as they are now doing proper low frequency workload.

 

All I can say is that Class D has moved on significantly since my last foray into that area a few years ago. I am very impressed with this power amp. I know it is the effectively the little brother of the M23 and many heard, and were impressed by, a pair of M23 amps driving some high-end Dali speakers at last year's Melbourne HiFi Show.

 

The C298 in straight stereo mode was good enough for me to ponder whether a pair of M23s might be on the horizon at some point in the future. These Purifi amps being the only ones on the market that can run in bridged mode (to my knowledge they are the only ones anyway, anyone know of others?) are a compelling proposition. My McIntosh MC830s are excellent and I am guilty of having them in part as they are great eye-candy, but at the risk of anthropomorphising them, I can't help but wonder of they are going to feel slightly embarrassed by the performance pf the C298 and other related Purifi amps at much lower price-points.