M.R Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) Hi StereoNET ANZ Community, As posted in the introduction section, I'm new to audio and looking forward to learning more from the StereoNet community. I normally travel for work frequently so once the boarders open I'll be looking to have a second portable IEM solution but for now I'm just going to be focusing on a home headphone setup. My starting setup includes the Focal Clear and Arche DAC/AMP and my source is Spotify via my Mac. I'd appreciate feedback on some contrasting headphones that you feel provides a different listening experience so that will help me educate my ears. Budget between $1500-$4000. The only requirement I have is that my current DAC/AMP is able to drive them. My initial thoughts was to look at some Planars (i.e. Ayra, Diana) but really appreciate the community's thoughts and feedback. Edited March 31, 2021 by M.R Adding information requested 1
stereo coffee Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 You will usually find manufacturers that are specialist at building microphones are also offering good headphones. as example Sennheiser, AKG, Audio Technica. Choosing headphones I would suggest needs audition. A good all round headphone, that is consistently good with audio reproduction and comfort & is easily in your price bracket is the AKG701 2
Ehrmantraut Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 Hi Michael, The Clear/Arche combo gets good reviews and is a good introduction to the Focal "house" sound. You don't mention what genres you listen to most or whether you want open or closed backs. When you think about the Clears, what do you like most about them? What sound signature would be the best compliment to them for you? Warmer, more bass perhaps? Or a wider soundstage? You mention planars like Arya and Diana and these are great headphones for sure. They may be more of an adjunct to your current set up though, rather than a different sound. Let us know. Neil 2
M.R Posted March 31, 2021 Author Posted March 31, 2021 3 hours ago, stereo coffee said: You will usually find manufacturers that are specialist at building microphones are also offering good headphones. as example Sennheiser, AKG, Audio Technica. Choosing headphones I would suggest needs audition. A good all round headphone, that is consistently good with audio reproduction and comfort & is easily in your price bracket is the AKG701 Thanks Chris for the suggestion. 2 hours ago, BlueOceanBoy said: Hi Michael, The Clear/Arche combo gets good reviews and is a good introduction to the Focal "house" sound. You don't mention what genres you listen to most or whether you want open or closed backs. When you think about the Clears, what do you like most about them? What sound signature would be the best compliment to them for you? Warmer, more bass perhaps? Or a wider soundstage? You mention planars like Arya and Diana and these are great headphones for sure. They may be more of an adjunct to your current set up though, rather than a different sound. Let us know. Neil Thanks Neil for the reply. The genre of music I enjoy is quite broad but I mainly listen to vocals / pop, acoustic, soundtracks, EDM, Rap, Operas and rock. I am open to either open or closed back suggestions and to your point on an adjunct, I'm after some that would compliment or provide a different listening experience so that I can begin to develop my ears. As for the Clears, I really enjoy the punch they offer as well as the clarity they provide but my comparisons are really based on AirPods before so really anything is going to be a massive improvement. Probably the one negative is that the sound to me sounds very much in my head and although I enjoy this for some music (i.e. vocals/pop), for others it would be great to have a bigger / broader sound +/- a bit more bass (i.e. soundtracks, EDM).
Guest Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 Maybe this? Hardly listen to headphones but many brands have a house sound. It appears that headphones are very much a personal choice, even more so than speakers.
Ehrmantraut Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 Snoopy8's suggestion is a good one for soundstage and instrument separation. The HD800s is a high impedance HP and may be ok with the different voltage/hybrid settings on the Arche - of which I have no experience - sorry. My choice of planars would be Final Audio's D8000. An excellent all rounder with some of the best bass in the HP business. I feel that the Arche would drive this well. Or you may like Dan Clark Audio's Ether 2 or the Rosson Audio Design RAD-0. On the orthodynamic front, ZMF are my go to. A great range of different signatures and price points. Ask Hugo @Indie Hi-Fi. The venerable Sennheiser HD650s are a great alternative too. I'm not sure that the Arche is the best fit for some of these higher impedance HPs. As mentioned, audition as many as you can, preferably with a retailer who has the Arche. You are about to embark on a great journey - bon voyage! 2
Indie Hi-Fi Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 @M.R @BlueOceanBoy has given some pretty good options. @peppy currently pairs a ZMF Eikon with his Arche and may have some insight. I’m biased but very strong on the vocals and staging to my mind. 2
peppy Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) Hi @M.R To start with, be rest assured, Focal Arche can drive the most demanding headphones. Case in point , I was using Focal Arche with Abyss 1266 , which is one of the most demanding headphones. I was running it at Voltage, High Gain at 55-60 volume. And runs HD800s & other 300 ohm headphones at 30-35....so yes its got plenty of grunt. Also Arche is a very rich sounding dac amp and is slightly on the warmer side of neutral. My music choice (ranked most headtime) and corresponding headphones I recommend : EDM / Indie Electronic - Final D8000 ---- Phenomenal bass response and 3d music envelope. Most layered bass performance with nice mids. Bass does not over power other frequencies . One of my all time favourites. Also will recommend Sony Z1R as a closed option for this genre. Pop / Rock - ZMF EIKON & Verite Closed ---- The 2 of the best ZMF headphones . Its very organic and natural sounding headphone. It creates a 3D image and has a decay that I just can't help but agree with. One of my all time favourites. Eikon is the pick and the diamond in the rough, considering the price difference of both of these. But if price no issue, then Verite Closed it is. . Another very exceptional sounding headphone is HE1000SE, but i dont usually recommend Hifiman products for various reasons, QC being one of them. But give them a try if you keen on a Hifiman. Jazz (or any vocal focused genre) : Meze Empyrean & ZMF Eikon. You will find plenty of praise for Empys online & surely are an exceptional headphone. Love it for vocal focused tracks. Can be a must have once you use it, Its the most comfortable headphone to wear, period. But if you want 85-90% of Empy vocals but at a much lower price that's where Eikon steps in. Hugo @Indie Hi-Fi is our man for anything ZMF or Meze. Instrumentals , Opera (or similar): God Headphone --- HD800s !!! It is the best for this genre and nearly the only all rounder headphone in my experience. If i had to have only one headphone, it will be THIS ! Its a must have for any headphone lover. As my friend Jay describes, the headphone with 'Angelic Sound'. Two headphones to try surely are the Abyss Diana Phi & 1266 . You need to try them to make an opinion for yourself. 1266 & Diana phi (same drivers) are 2 headphones that ppl react most differently to. Personally I LOVED IT !!! Most probably my next purchase Our goto man for that is in Melbourne - @Geoff@HeyNow Hi-Fi Remember :: There is no alternative to testing the headphones yourself . Welcome to the rabbit hole....just keep digging ! Edited March 31, 2021 by peppy 6 2
M.R Posted April 1, 2021 Author Posted April 1, 2021 @Snoopy8@BlueOceanBoy@Indie Hi-Fi thanks for all the suggestions and feedback. I'll definitely add them to my list on what to test if I can access locally. I've got a trip planned soon to Brisbane so perhaps I can pop by @Indie Hi-Fi to have a listen to the ZMF Eikon, Verite and Meze. @peppy Thanks for your detailed insights with the Focal Arche as well as the range of suggestions based on music. Crazy to know that you ran the 1266 on the Arche! Being based in Melbourne, A2A still not allowing testing, I'll have to wait until these rules relax to test the majority of these (i.e. D8000, HE1000SE, HD800S etc.). As for Abyss, I was thinking the V2 more as it was in my budget but might be best to visit to HeyNow Hi-Fi to listen to the range. In the rabbit hole I go! 3
peppy Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, M.R said: I've got a trip planned soon to Brisbane so perhaps I can pop by @Indie Hi-Fi to have a listen to the ZMF Eikon, Verite and Meze. That will be awesome Hugo has an amazing chain for headphone demos. 12 minutes ago, M.R said: As for Abyss, I was thinking the V2 more as it was in my budget but might be best to visit to HeyNow Hi-Fi to listen to the range. You should , he’s an amazing guy and very helpful. And do let us know what you decide at the end of it. We love to know if we were of help....and love even more to curse at ppl who don’t take our advise 1 1
Tarzan Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 Keep the headphones and buy some tubes mate, you'll never look back... @Indie Hi-Fi can hook you up with some great tube amps. I'm sitting here "working from home" Listening to John Lee Hooker on a simple pair of Focal Elex headphones, but man the tubes can make em sing. 1
M.R Posted April 1, 2021 Author Posted April 1, 2021 @TarzanAppreciate the feedback and suggestion. That's a whole other rabbit hole that I'm yet to dive into. Not sure if my wallet is gonna survive this new hobby
Tarzan Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 Don't worry, my wallet took off a few months ago now. Haven't sent it since. Probably seeing the same therapist as @BlueOceanBoy's wallet by now. I wasn't certain of tubes either, but my wonderful fiance bought me a tube amp as a gift. Then instead of rolling tubes and burning money I just bought what everyone thought were the best. Easy really, not cheap, but easy. IMO solid state can't get the tonal richness or real decay that tubes can. But of course depends on what you listen to and what your experience is. If you've been a bit of a "muso" you'll know how things are meant to sound and may end up chasing it. Once you get close to it you try to get a little closer, then a little closer again, and then your living in the streets with all the other "muso"s. 1
peppy Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 I have heard that ‘Therapist’ you @Tarzan & @BlueOceanBoy were visiting is now on SNA ! 1
M.R Posted April 1, 2021 Author Posted April 1, 2021 @Tarzanwell might as well add my wallet to the waiting list of the therapist now as well. Whilst I'm testing some of the suggestions above, I'll see if I can test some tube amp options as well to see if it is a tonality that I like. Based on @peppy's feedback my current DAC/Amp is already on the warm side so curious to see if it is something that I'd like more off or prefer a cleaner approach. I see you've got the WA22, is that one you'd recommend? What others would you recommend checking out as well? 1
Ehrmantraut Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 OTL (Output transformer Less) tube amplifiers will serve high impedance headphones like ZMF and Sennheisers well. That includes Feliks Euforia or Bottlehead Crack for example. Transformer coupled amps like Woo WA22 and A+S Mogwai can serve both high and low impedance headphones and may give you a less lively and dynamic sound but possibly clearer and faster. A lot depends on the tube selection on board and the circuit design. A well designed SET (Single ended triode) transformer coupled amp is generally more expensive than an OTL because of that output transformer which needs to be high quality. @Odyssey knows a great deal about amp topology and is a great source of information. Tube amps are another real rabbit hole, not just the amps but the tubes as well. Given your nice starting point, it might be worth auditioning some planars or counterpoint (SQ wise to Clears) headphones at various price points. You'll get a feel for what things sound like and it's important that they sound good to you not a reviewer! I'd do that before embarking on the tube amp journey. One of the most important factors here is synergy in your system. A great headphone can sound mediocre with incompatible sources and amplification. 2
Ehrmantraut Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 Just to clarify.....As far as sound signatures go, as a general rule I'd say that OTL amps lean towards smooth, full body, and more relaxed, versus SET amps which are more dynamic, forward, with better attack. I didn't do a very good job of explaining that above. OTL warm, SET (transformer coupled) more neutral. 2
peppy Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 25 minutes ago, BlueOceanBoy said: @Odyssey knows a great deal about amp topology and is a great source of information. You just added The Guy for tube amps .. it will get interesting now, if he jumps in ... 1
Odyssey Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 Good lord Neil dragging me into this. All the contributors here have vast experience with dacs, amps and headphones, not to mention Hugo and HeyNow, 2 retailers you need to get friendly with. Incidentally I might get to listen with a Focal Arche this weekend as well as a range of tube amps, solid state and lots of headphones, dacs... Personally I'm interested in tube amps because a nicely implemented tube amp will send you into rapturous delights. OTL, SET transformer coupled amps have wow me for a good part of 5 to 6 years and they still do. A most recent audition of Eric McChanson 300b and KT150 SET amps have left me very impressed. However Eric is very humble. He ask me not to publicize it too much because he is old and cannot handle large volume of orders. I do feel that his amps is good enough to compete with some of the more popular amps out there and at a very affordable price point. Just as a point of reference, I've owned Darkvoice 336se, Feliks Audio Elise, Euforia, La Figaro 339 (both original and the i version), Woo Audio Wa22, Glenn OTL amp from USA, ALO Audio Studio Six, Ultrasonic Studio Oblivion, Ragnarok, Jotunheim, Questyle CMA 12, Violectric v280, Mjolnir 2, Auralic Taurus Mk2, SMSL Sp200. My next custom amp is Odyssey which will be built in June 2021. In this context, I have high regards for Eric's tube amps and I think they present a very lovely euphony, details and wide soundstage at a budget price. I've love many headphones and even the ones I've sold off, I still love them. However my current love are the He1000se and LCD-3f. My wish is to trade these 2 for Susvara and LCD-4. On 2nd thought, I'd probably keep the He1000se still even if I have Susvara because it is that special. Last week I had the privilege of trailing He1000 v2 with Eric's 300b and KT77 amps. The earlier v2 really surprised me. This Easter long weekend I'll have the opportunity to listen to v2 and Se side by side with Eric's tube amps and my Oblivion. Sigh.... this Easter I have lots of family obligations... loved ones I've not seen for a while due to Covid-19 but at the same time, all these lovely gear is waiting for me.... At a recent meet at @peppy's place, I was very impressed with Ampandsound Encore (poor man's 300b amp) with Meze Empyrean and Dan Clarke Ether 2. These were made available courtesy of Hugo. Also at separate personal audition at Minidisc in downtown Chatswood, Sydney, 2 setups really impressed me but they have gorgeous price to match. These are:- 1. Chord Qutest > Auris Nirvana > Audeze LCD-4 2. Chord Hugo TT2 + M'Scalar > Auris Nirvana > Susvara It's because of these 2 auditions that I have tried to create my own unique setup comprising Yggdrasil > Ultrasonic Studio Odyssey > He1000se / LCD-3f (headphones to include Susvara and or LCD4 or even Meze Empyrean) Think of Odyssey as a more customisable version of Ampandsound Bigger Ben, with Sowter transformers, Mundorf caps and Yamamoto's sockets. It's supposed to be my last tube amp before I retire from further upgrading. In deciding on Odyssey, I have considered an upgrade DNA Stratus, Ampandsound Mogwai Se, Bigger Ben and even Auris Nirvana but the latter price is too much for me. I was going add a nice solid state later to complement the setup. Candidates include the Benchmark HPA4, Violectric v590 or the more expensive ... name just slip my mind now. @Ccollins owns it ! Anyway I don't think I will go the additional solid state route. When Odyssey arrives and if it meets my expectations then with Oblivion, I could call it a day and watch my lemon and lime trees bare fruits. Sigh... I wanted to write only a paragraph.... To the OP, I've only this to say. Once you go down this hobby path, there's no return. I did not regret it. It has given me great enjoyment over the years. Let's look at it this way - you could have spend your money on more dangerous and unhealthy hobbies like horse racing. So good luck... 2 1
Tarzan Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 @M.R I would pass the knowledge based questions to @BlueOceanBoy TBH. He has much more experience and great in flight etiquette. Mind you If I was to roll again with gear this would likely be my set up: https://indiehifi.com.au/collections/tube-headphone-amps/products/euforia-otl-tube-headphone-amp https://indiehifi.com.au/collections/dacs/products/qutest Focal Utopias 2 1
Bengineer Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 If complimenting the Clear, and contrasting, I wouldn't go Arya. Bit lean. D8000 is a decent option, if you can wait for one for around $3000. Small EQ bump in the 3k range does it wonders. Empyrean is a awesome choice too, again, might need to be on special, used, or imported to fit the budget. 1
Ccollins Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) Focal sale back on at a2a this weekend. Including arche and arche combos. Here’s some links https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/collections/sale https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/collections/easter-sale-2021 edit: i’m not sure if my links work but have a look at the sale listing on their website. and if it doesn't come up, type in “b stock” for utopia at $3250 Edited April 1, 2021 by Ccollins 1
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