cccrchairman Posted February 6, 2022 Author Posted February 6, 2022 Not sure how I feel about the last 2.3SE coming and going last night. You don’t get a whole lot of thinking time with these DACs. 1
curiousgeorgenz Posted February 7, 2022 Posted February 7, 2022 On 6/2/2022 at 4:11 PM, cccrchairman said: Not sure how I feel about the last 2.3SE coming and going last night. You don’t get a whole lot of thinking time with these DACs. A case of “if you snooze, you lose”…
MattyW Posted February 7, 2022 Posted February 7, 2022 From the way it was listed…. Pretty sure there will be no more thinking time with respect to the 2.3SE. Sounded like they will be the last of that model made.
gemini07 Posted February 7, 2022 Posted February 7, 2022 On 06/02/2022 at 1:41 PM, cccrchairman said: Not sure how I feel about the last 2.3SE coming and going last night. You don’t get a whole lot of thinking time with these DACs. What do you mean Matt? I'm a little confused. You are the original poster of this thread and have been highly complimentary about the Abbas products for nearly a year. I and a number of others are very appreciative of how we picked up on the range and what we've learnt. Obviously some of us have gone on to buy one of Abbas's dacs with the majority being highly satisfied. The 2.3SE has been the subject of considerable discussion here and surely no one would have been left in any doubt as to its quality. As you know there were three of the 2.3SE 's listed about a week ago. What is it you feel you needed more thinking time for?
aertex Posted February 7, 2022 Posted February 7, 2022 Hello Stephen (limberpine) and welcome here. Can you tell us what your Dac 4.0 sounds like to you, and provide some further info on the Kondo stage. I suspect there are a few here keen to hear your thoughts and experiences to this point. These Abbas dac's are certainly interesting, and now I have been lucky enough to pick one up I am keen to discover more about them. 1
MattyW Posted February 7, 2022 Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) 54 minutes ago, gemini07 said: What do you mean Matt? I'm a little confused. You are the original poster of this thread and have been highly complimentary about the Abbas products for nearly a year. I and a number of others are very appreciative of how we picked up on the range and what we've learnt. Obviously some of us have gone on to buy one of Abbas's dacs with the majority being highly satisfied. The 2.3SE has been the subject of considerable discussion here and surely no one would have been left in any doubt as to its quality. As you know there were three of the 2.3SE 's listed about a week ago. What is it you feel you needed more thinking time for? From memory the listing was worded as though it would be the last three 2.3SE's. I may have read that incorrectly though I may not have. My guess was they're running low on black gate caps or high demand has meant they can concentrate on higher end offerings. Just guess work though, I've not been in contact with Abbas. Edited February 7, 2022 by MattyW 1
cccrchairman Posted February 8, 2022 Author Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, gemini07 said: What do you mean Matt? I'm a little confused. You are the original poster of this thread and have been highly complimentary about the Abbas products for nearly a year. I and a number of others are very appreciative of how we picked up on the range and what we've learnt. Obviously some of us have gone on to buy one of Abbas's dacs with the majority being highly satisfied. The 2.3SE has been the subject of considerable discussion here and surely no one would have been left in any doubt as to its quality. As you know there were three of the 2.3SE 's listed about a week ago. What is it you feel you needed more thinking time for? Apologies for any confusion. It was intended more as a comment on the demand for the DACs given how fast they sell. I was interested in the listing, slept on it and gone. As I am sure most Abbas owners would agree the components bring substantial improvements to a system by any measure but $3.5K is a fair hit in my world so when it sold I was sort of relieved the decision had been made for me. I do already have the 4.1SE after all. I have no doubt the 2.3SE is an awesome DAC. Interested to see where Abbas goes from here with the TDA1541. Maybe just the The 3.1SE/3.2SE in the various configurations. 2
MrBurns84 Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, MattyW said: From memory the listing was worded as though it would be the last three 2.3SE's. I may have read that incorrectly though I may not have. My guess was they're running low on black gate caps or high demand has meant they can concentrate on higher end offerings. Just guess work though, I've not been in contact with Abbas. Quite a common approach for boutique vendors, in the case of Abbas, the supply of vintage parts are so scarce these days and the cost associated to sourcing these for a build. Esp with those TDA1541a S1 chips.... still banging my head and crying over the fact that i shouldn't have sold off my pair of S2 crowns 12 years ago.. 1
Psilonaught Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 Hi guys How does the 2.1. compare to the 4.1 SE? Which is superior? Thanks
MattyW Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Psilonaught said: Hi guys How does the 2.1. compare to the 4.1 SE? Which is superior? Thanks Based on different chips. Not really comparable. Phillips vs Burr Brown. Comes down to personal preference. Abbas himself prefers TDA1541 if that means anything. He describes the 1541 as being more chameleon like in how it presents music, changing from recording to recording. I took that to mean it was more transparent whereas the Burr Brown chips paint everything similarly. You may prefer that though you may not. Comes down to personal preference. Edited February 9, 2022 by MattyW 2
Psilonaught Posted February 10, 2022 Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) Well I've decided to jump on the Abbas bandwagon and have purchased a 4.1SE, and I have requested the 2.3 case with rectifier hole. I will be ordering an Audio GD DI-20HE with 50 Ohm clock input so I can use my 10Mhz, 50 Ohm Rubidium atomic clock into the USB on my Aries G2. This will replace my trusty Musical Paradise MP-D2 Mk3 which I love, but I am pretty sure the 4.1SE will piss all over.... I hope! The DAC should suit my new, stunning KR Audio P135 type 45 DHT preamp nicely Edited February 10, 2022 by Psilonaught 5
Psilonaught Posted February 13, 2022 Posted February 13, 2022 (edited) Guys just wondering why do I need the DDC? Why not just plug the Aries directly into the Abbas with a high quality oyaide dr-510 coaxial? Has anyone compared using their Abbas with and without a DDC? Edited February 13, 2022 by Psilonaught
Niktech Posted February 13, 2022 Posted February 13, 2022 MattyW commented on his Abbas with and without his Mutec DDC with master clock in his thread. IIRC better soundstage, musicality and tone. 1
Psilonaught Posted February 13, 2022 Posted February 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Niktech said: MattyW commented on his Abbas with and without his Mutec DDC with master clock in his thread. IIRC better soundstage, musicality and tone. Ok. I won't be getting a Mutec however, goldensound's review of it is extremely damning! I'll stick with the audio GD DI-20 which weirdly is in an identical case to my rubidium clock with the curved black case 1
Niktech Posted February 13, 2022 Posted February 13, 2022 29 minutes ago, Psilonaught said: Ok. I won't be getting a Mutec however, goldensound's review of it is extremely damning! I'll stick with the audio GD DI-20 which weirdly is in an identical case to my rubidium clock with the curved black case Yeah, fair enough. There are other DDC’s out there though that might be worth auditioning to bring out the best in the Abbas. 1
Artnet Posted February 13, 2022 Posted February 13, 2022 23 minutes ago, Psilonaught said: the audio GD DI-20 Look forward to hearing how it sounds with the Abbas.
Psilonaught Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) Just ordered this nice Cossor 6X5G with the identical internal structure of the GEC in page one Edited February 14, 2022 by Psilonaught 1
limberpine Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 Listening on La Scalas with Erhard Audio Aretha Preamp, Velodyne ULD-15 sub, Oliver Sayers Korneff Clone SET 45. Speaker cables are Audioquest type 5 and all interconnects made by me with Blue Jean cable and WTB locking RCAs. (Still need to hook up Lii Audio F-15 in open baffle for a listen) DAC: Abbas 4.0 Gold with Kondo output stage, PCM 58p with Abbas USB to Spdif Converter (I did have to run USB from my laptop to use this converter, which is not ideal. The converter didn’t want to work with the RPi4, this problem seems fixable and I will have to troubleshot some settings in moode on the RPi). My thoughts: -Soundstage has much more room in it than Audio GD (PCM1704) and SW1X(PCM 56), where there is more space between instruments spanning the full 12ft wall that the speakers are in front of. -It centers the vocals really really well, provides depth of soundstage, enhances mouth sounds. In some recordings hearing the artist approach the microphone and inhale before singing which all adds up to it sounding real. -Instruments sound real: Picking on the guitar, violins/cello notes slice through the air and sound like they’re right next to me, kick drum hits, tom hits, all of it sounds real. -Lots of decay in cymbals and other instruments. Some song endings feeling like the heart has stopped beating as the song wanes away and dies. -Power, it has this force to it where the music in some instances feel like it hits you and you jump a little in your chair. -Refines bass and enhance it in some songs, where I have dialed my subwoofer down. -The overall sound is very pleasing, not shouty or hard. -Some recordings make my room feel alive, as if the speakers are putting out music in a way that my speakers are dancing or there is movement within the music that is flowing around the room. -Ruthless with source material. If it's poorly produced or mastered, you can tell. -I would also categorize this DAC on the less warm side of romantic. It’s not as romantic in its warmth, its romantic in its accuracy if that makes sense? Which makes it feel real in a very different way than the SW1X - There are moments when I look around the room as if someone was in the room with me, which is a very interesting feeling and reaction to the music. Cons: -Still a little bit of sibilance, no matter which DAC I've listened to, it just doesn't seem to get rid of sibilance, but this one has the least of it that I've heard. This is regardless of it being Redbook, High Res, old or new recordings, although I will say recordings like Muddy Waters: My Captain have less sibilance than something that is new and has been digitally mastered. -Seems to take about 45-60min to fully warm up and start flowing the music. Abbas vs SW1X: Where the SW1X differs is creating a smaller bubble of a soundstage from which the music flowed out into the room. Instead of the rectangular, larger soundstage of the 4.0. The SW1X, seemed to create this bubble of sound in the middle of the wall that the music flowed out from. Which created this feeling of warmness, it had less musical separation, but made it feel very real in a much different way. Each time I listened to the Abbas, I just feel addicted to the music. Many of the nights listening for 2+ hours. At this point “different” is really the best word I can use. Not better, not worse. Solidly different than the SW1X. Which is interesting given how they're related. If we're just talking dollars and cents. To me there doesn't seem to be a reason to spend an additional $2k on the SW1X. Where the SW1X was $6k new and the Abbas 4.0 was $4k new. Vs Vinyl: As I did some back and forth listening between vinyl and digital, I find that the mediums are still pretty different, but each have their own appeal and that actually might be just fine. I think that while someone who prefers vinyl would argue that it’s the exact reproduction of the signal that the artists produced, I keep wondering if the reason it’s so appealing is because it’s not perfect. Where digital is much more "perfect" or is trying to be and that becomes a hard thing for our senses to adjust to and experience making digital feel hard around the edges etc.. Even a live concert isn't perfect, and I again think that is a reason its enjoyable. Merely an opinion, observation and thinking out loud here for reflection. I don't want to get into the big ole Digital vs Vinyl debate. Both the Abbas and the SW1X help the music feel less perfect, which funny enough is what Peter at Audio Note said they have been doing with their DACs for years, and consequently why people feel the music is real. I think I was chasing that exact vinyl reproduction's and I'm coming to the conclusion that might not be the correct goal. Maybe good for the DAC manufactures, but not the best long term solution for enjoying the tunes. That goal might just be trying to get to Eden when it doesn't exits. There is no place of pure audio nirvana, instead there are the limits of the physical world which includes compromise, with each medium having its own. 3 3
Artnet Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 Wow Stephen thanks for the awesome review. The suspense was killing me, softly mind you. 6 hours ago, limberpine said: Ruthless with source material. If it's poorly produced or mastered, you can tell. I think this is similar to the 4.1 Its the PCM58 chip but Abbas's implementation of it makes music! I am less inclined to replay a poor recording, unless the performance warrants a revisit. Or play it on a more forgiving DAC ? 6 hours ago, limberpine said: There is no place of pure audio nirvana, instead there are the limits of the physical world which includes compromise, with each medium having its own. Yep Sad but true, just enjoy the music digital or analogue. Thanks again for the exciting read, enjoy the addiction. 1
MattyW Posted February 15, 2022 Posted February 15, 2022 Aye, the most appealing sound I ever got from vinyl was with an Ariston RD110 SL and that thing couldn't even keep a constant speed. I absolutely believe it's the inaccuracies make for a more lifelike presentation. Real live performances are not flawless. This is where my current Musician Aquarius falls down vs my previous Abbas. It will likely never sound as life like though it is just as enjoyable in it's own way. It has deeper, more articulate bass which I'm enjoying and incredible speed. That and it let me get away from using tube life when used for kids TV shows, my wife watching streamed Chinese TV shows etc. If the system was used purely for music then frankly I'd have been better off sticking with the Abbas though I'm adaptable enough that I believe I'll be able to enjoy it just as much with a number of other system improvements. It's just the Abbas would have improved with the same improvements is all. 3
Xecuter Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 Abbas 2.3 SE review: Firstly, keep in mind, every Abbas dac will have a different design (each one has slightly different parts) and depending on your source and tubes you could create a very different experience with this DAC. Gear: sft-SE+ > abbas 2.3SE with meatball RCA > atc sca-2 > atc 150aslt alternatively abbas fed into my eddie current studio SET - headphone amp. It is super energetic for a NOS dac, very engaging indeed. The abbas DAC is extremely sensitive to source equipment and can sound bad from a lot of sources, fortunately it played very well with my cd-transport with spdif (it's only input). It also changed a lot with the different tube variants. Fortunately I had some foresight to have my friends in the US send me tubes that coax the best out of the Abbas 2.3se. The stage is still NOS like, congested and a bit too intimate, imaging suffers as a result and this is definitely the weakest aspect of the DAC. This is much less noticeable on headphones but still an issue. I was able to make it more diffuse with tube selection but then lost some of the energy which is what makes this dac special. I feel there is some extra presence in the upper octaves and the treble is not like typical NOS (I'm looking at you metrum), it's strong and focused, and transients are sudden and land with authority giving the dac a lovely timbre and energy, however in complex pieces where there is 'polytonal' things going on with lots of instruments the dac loses focus and can become a bit smeared. Blackground it more of a greyground like the Yggdrasil 1 for those familiar. Due to the greyground, lack of clarity and slight smearing, detail is not a strong point, however this doesn't seem to really detract from the experience as much as other dacs. The PrAT and energy are just addictive. This DAC is not a giant slayer but it is 'fun', it gets the foot tapping but lacks some technical prowess. It's in a similar vein to the terminator DAC but has more tweakability and a much more pleasant price point. There are several tiers above the Abbas 2.3se and I am definitely interested to see if I can get a hold of them because the 2.3se was definitely an enjoyable dac to spend time with. This image is from @Indie Hi-Fi place who has some epiccc gear. I took rockna and abbas for him to have a listen. we did try it with some good sources like the mutec with ref SE120 and some other cheaper options and it really is a chameleon with sources. Where does it rank on my Dac list? It didn't quiet hit the top 10 and honestly was lucky to not get knocked down into the mid-fi range, but the moments of engrossing engagement made me prefer it over a lot of other dacs which were more technical but lacked engagement/energy. Also a huge thanks to @DrMikeOz for making this review possible! 6 1
Psilonaught Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 Nice balanced review. I'll post a review here too once I receive my 4.1 SE. I'll be using it with an Auralic Aries G2. I exclusively listen to small-scale jazz and folk through 20 series Magnepans, and it will be interesting to see how the PCM58 chip in my 4.1 copes. 2
Psilonaught Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 Guys what are the dip switches on the 4.1 for? What is the maximum resolution that the 4.1 accepts? I need to know what to set my Aries G2 to output
gemini07 Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 @Xecuter Thanks for the review. May I ask what ICs you used between the 2.3 and the preamp you used? Also, thanks for the link to the review of other dacs you've heard- quite an assortment to enjoy studying. 1
Xecuter Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 1 hour ago, gemini07 said: @Xecuter Thanks for the review. May I ask what ICs you used between the 2.3 and the preamp you used? Also, thanks for the link to the review of other dacs you've heard- quite an assortment to enjoy studying. They are just pure silver Robertson audio saphire rcas. I use mostly Robertson audio for my XLR and rca cables. Very solidly built and I prefer it to my atlas and JPS cables I owned.
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