muon* Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) SPDIF input only and they are based on the TDA1541 DAC chip, and operate in NOS mode (non oversampling) They also do not perform upsampling. Specs taken from the sale of one on audiogon. (some minor details may vary from one build to another) DAC 2.2SE features: 1. Tube DEM clock ( E180F, EAA91 ) 2. CS8414 SPDIF receiver 24/96 3. Shunt voltage regulators based on the germanuim transistors. 4. Vintage and modern audio components are used:allen bradley,philips,telefunken, Capacitors: Black Gate (2pc FK series),Audio Note kaisei, Nichicon muse KX, Nichicon muse KZ Resistors: allen bradley, Audio Note tantalum. 5. Board covered with gold and a special varnish for best sound 6. Stranded wires composed of vintage copper wires taken from klangfilm,telefunken,siemens sound equipment 7. I/U convertor based on the special low noise germanium transistor. As a consequence of this fact, an excellent reproduction of quiet sounds,at -60..-80db level 8. PIO output capacitors HYDRA or Siemens from 60th 9. Shortest signal path, the tube output stage with the low output impedance (5687,EZ35). 10. NOS mode(non oversampling) 11. Genuine TDA1541R1 or TDA1541A Philips factory 12. Siemens film capacitors in the DEM cells 13.Separate power transformers for digital and analog sections. Separate transformer for DEM clock. 14.Telefunken choke from 1930 in the power supply of output stage. 15. EZ35 tube rectifier I'll add that it has a 4v output. Edited June 17, 2021 by muon*
muon* Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) You can find a wealth of info on the Abbas forums https://ym6t3zcngbqjloregzh5737kiy-jj2cvlaia66be-abbasaudio-listbb-ru.translate.goog/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1543&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=ee2823bc9b74c0c7899f50f2c5b3b3b3 https://ym6t3zcngbqjloregzh5737kiy-jj2cvlaia66be-abbasaudio-listbb-ru.translate.goog/index.php?sid=8423e56a96554952f8bd146896084786 Edited June 17, 2021 by muon*
krazywaffle Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 Thanks @muon* Here are is the similar description of the Abbas Audio DAC1.1 that I’m considering (approx $800AUD delivered) versus Eastern Electric MiniMax PLUS. Can any users clarify that the key differences are between the 1.1 and 2.2SE? DAC 1.1 features: 1.Tube clock ( ECC88 ) 2.CS8414 SPDIF receiver 24/96 3.Shunt voltage regulators based on the germanuim transistors.The scheme has been improved and has a superior thermal stability. 4.Vintage and modern audio components are used:allen bradley,philips,telefunken, Capacitors:panasonic pureism,audionote standart,kendeil 5.Board covered with gold and a special varnish for best sound 6.Stranded wires composed of vintage copper wires taken from klangfilm,telefunken,siemens sound equipment 7. I/U convertor based on the low noise vintage germanium transistor. As a consequence of this fact, an excellent reproduction of quiet sounds,at -60..-80db level 8. Single ended output stage based on power vintage germanium p-n-p transistor 9.Shortest signal path, the tube output stage with the low output imphedance less than 600ohm 10.NOS mode(non oversampling) 11.Genuine PCM56P chips, Japan factory 12.Spdif receiver voltage stabilizer based on powerful military soviet transistor that provides high resolution. 13.Separate power transformers for digital and analog sections. Separate transformer for tube clock. Output: 2v RMS (1khz,0db Full Scale) You get this tubes with the DAC: 6N23P soviet( ECC88)
krazywaffle Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 Of note is that the Eastern Electric MiniMax PLUS is only approx $120AUD less than new Abbas Audio DAC1.1
muon* Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) You can see the differences comparing what you have there and what I posted. The 1.1 is based on the PCM56 chips (2.2SE uses TDA1541) and does not employ tubes in the output stage (the 2.2SE does use tubes in the output stage) and other differences. I have only heard Matt's 2.2SE and It's the best DAC I have heard so far. I have not heard any other Abbas DAC's or the Eastern Electric Minimax... Edited June 17, 2021 by muon*
MattyW Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 The 2.3SE has replaced the 2.2SE in the range. I think from what I've heard the 4.1SE is on the same level, just a different flavor.
krazywaffle Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 Also, using the SPDIF-only input of the DAC1.1 would require an additional USB-to-SPDIF converter, which would put me over budget. Think there is a way to pass the digital signal through Meridian 568.2MM to DAC1.1 via coaxial SPDIF, which would still engage the automatic de-jittering and 24/96 up-sampling imposed by Meridian 568.2MM on all incoming digital signals (i.e., potentially viable workaround in the meantime)
MattyW Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) I use a regular old Luxman RCA selector to share the single SPDIF with multiple sources in my second system. Seems to work well without any signal degradation. But yeah, your choice is either sound quality and a unit that will likely be the last you ever buy.... Or features and continue on the DAC merry-go-round. I chose to get off. Cheaper in the long run. Edited June 17, 2021 by MattyW 1
krazywaffle Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 Thanks for the insight To get digital audio out of my Mac mini I am restricted to USB or Toslink, both of which would require conversion to coaxial SPDIF for input into Abbas Audio DAC. But I do think the Meridian 568.2MM can serve as a quality Toslink-to-Coaxial converter (while retaining all “digital preamp” functions), Waiting to hear back from Abbas about any forthcoming DAC2.3SE builds as well as ability to order just 1 DAC-Z (advert seems to suggest that 10 DAC-Z units need to be ordered at a time). These reviews and the “custom built” aspect of Abbas has my interest and curiosity peaked! If the DAC1.1 doesn’t blow me away it seems resale wouldn’t be a drama.
MattyW Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) The DAC Z just isn't that great.... A mate has one. There's a reason they pop up used from time to time. I'd rather the Denafrips Ares II.... Which another mate has. Read up whatever you can on the 1.1... Everything I've read so far has been about the U, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 and 4.1. I prefer a sure thing to gambling these days Edited June 17, 2021 by MattyW 2
DrMikeOz Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 I think @MattyW has a good point. I went through some DAC madness (tm) last year - and ended up costing me a lot when I sold them off after being unhappy. While I’m sure there might be more to be gained with a 10k DAC for the first time in ages I have no desire to buy the latest and greatest. So might be worth saving your pennies and springing for an Abbas if you can 3
MattyW Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) Probably the only other DAC I can recommend that will compete in the price range you're looking at is a NOS Phillips TDA1540D based DAC out of China. It has a single SPDIF input only as well. I've a thread on it here somewhere. It's under $2k. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TDA1540-DAC-enhanced-version-of-the-whole-machine-/274387268158?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286 This is a fantastic unit and comes surprisingly close to the Abbas DAC2.2SE.... Of course I'm running some vintage Western Electric 111C isolation transformers after it and those are not cheap. Edited June 17, 2021 by MattyW 1
cccrchairman Posted June 17, 2021 Author Posted June 17, 2021 Any Abbas owners here using transports? I have only ever used mine with a teac vrds10. The two together is like Lennon and McCartney. My experience would suggest a simple transport to Abbas DAC chain is not to be underestimated. With all the money I am saving buying old CD’s vs old vinyl I can afford Abbas interconnects and all the other gear that costs a fortune and can be hidden behind the cabinet. 3 1
MattyW Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 50 minutes ago, cccrchairman said: Any Abbas owners here using transports? I have only ever used mine with a teac vrds10. The two together is like Lennon and McCartney. My experience would suggest a simple transport to Abbas DAC chain is not to be underestimated. With all the money I am saving buying old CD’s vs old vinyl I can afford Abbas interconnects and all the other gear that costs a fortune and can be hidden behind the cabinet. Just wait until you try Tidal or Qobuz with it. That stopped me buying CD's too.
MattyW Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) I'm using a Soundaware A1X in my second system.... Also a Denon DN-500BD Mk.II BlueRay player. I'm using the NOS TDA1540D in that system though rather than my Abbas DAC Edited June 17, 2021 by MattyW
krazywaffle Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 2 hours ago, cccrchairman said: With all the money I am saving buying old CD’s vs old vinyl I can afford Abbas interconnects and all the other gear that costs a fortune and can be hidden behind the cabinet. HAHA! Truth
krazywaffle Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 4 hours ago, MattyW said: Probably the only other DAC I can recommend that will compete in the price range you're looking at is a NOS Phillips TDA1540D based DAC out of China. It has a single SPDIF input only as well. I've a thread on it here somewhere. It's under $2k. Thanks heaps for the recommendation. Heard back from Abbas that he will be releasing an updated version of DAC2.3 soon so thinking I’ll wait/save for this. Will suss the ability of 568.2MM to convert and export coaxial SPDIF signal in the meantime as I do believe it has this ability. 1
krazywaffle Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 5 hours ago, DrMikeOz said: I went through some DAC madness (tm) last year - and ended up costing me a lot when I sold them off after being unhappy. While I’m sure there might be more to be gained with a 10k DAC for the first time in ages I have no desire to buy the latest and greatest. So might be worth saving your pennies and springing for an Abbas if you can Very useful insight! While the journey is fun, shortcuts that notably improve daily musical enjoyment are entirely welcomed. As is a shift in the associated costs! Have also recently shifted towards CDs over LPs and it does make a substantial difference. So it seems the new Abbas 2.3 is the go! Hope it isn’t too dear! 1
MattyW Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 Yes, I think you've made the right choice there. You'll never need, or indeed want to upgrade your DAC again. This will save you quite a bit of money in the long run and you'll get many more hours of musical enjoyment.
Artnet Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 10 hours ago, cccrchairman said: Any Abbas owners here using transports? Am using a CEC tl51xr as a transport and am very happy. The detail from the CD is further improved by the Abbas 4.1SE, or certaily musically compatible. I was reading about different transports and their signature sounds and would love to try others. Just costs money Dont forget the GEC 6X5 if you havent already. Big bottle, big improvement. 1
MrBurns84 Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 14 hours ago, DrMikeOz said: I think @MattyW has a good point. I went through some DAC madness (tm) last year - and ended up costing me a lot when I sold them off after being unhappy. While I’m sure there might be more to be gained with a 10k DAC for the first time in ages I have no desire to buy the latest and greatest. So might be worth saving your pennies and springing for an Abbas if you can Think quite a few of us been down that path @DrMikeOz but its the journey that was more enjoyed than the dacs imo. Yeah, now that you mention this, and me thinking about it...gosh, a lot of hard earned was spent sampling the latest dac craze. But its so true, you hit a point of satisfaction and the need to upgrade diminishes - (for a while is the key word).. 1 1
krazywaffle Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 Heard back from Abbas and here are his currently available DACs and associated prices: “Now we have this list of DA converters. TDA1540 it is DAC X SE But it is still undergoing trials. Price: ( bank transfer) •DAC 2.2 TDA1541, 6N6P, EZ80, EAA91,E180F 980usd it is not SE version. •DAC 0.11 SE a new model coming soon TDA1543, EZ90, EZ90, 5687 price will be formed later •DAC X SE +output stage 7/1ver. E182CC+5Y3+EZ90+EB91+E180F TDA1540P coming soon, price will be formed later •DAC 2.3SE + output stage 7/1 ver. E182CC+5Y3 +EZ90+EB91+E180F TDA1541R1 2300usd •DAC 2.3SE+ output stage 7/1ver. signature TDA1541A, black gate power tank WK caps , siemens power transformer in digital section 3600usd •DAC 3.1 SE + 6BL7 output stage + EF12+ EZ11, TDA1541A 2800usd •DAC 3.1SE+ 6080 output stage +EZ90+EZ90+EF12+EZ11, TDA1541A , a new price will be later ( all pcbs are sold) •DAC 4.1SE 5687+EZ90+EZ35 1700usd PCM58P-K •DAC U SE + output stage 7/1 ver( PCM63) 5687, EZ35 PCM63P-J ( we have no PCM63P-K now) 1700usd •DAC 5.0 SE + output stage 7/1 ver. E182CC +5Y3+ EZ80, AD1865 / AD1864 coming soon, price will be formed later •DAC3.1SE signature + D3a siemens output stage + AZ1 + EF12+ EZ11 + TDA1541S1 crown, black gate power tank, siemens- klangfilm transformers 7800usd •USB-SPDIF converter 4 tube 630usd Curious what the prices will be for the TBD items, but based on this list the bolded items are currently within budget and the italic item seems to be the most recommended (2.3SE). Seems research into the different DAC chips and tubes is needed to better understand the primary differences between these versions; however, I’d venture to guess that they all sound as good or better than another DAC with the same retail price. Any thoughts on: USB-SPDIF converter + 2.2 (≈$1,600USD) versus 4.1SE ($1700USD) or U SE ($1700USD)? As appealing as it would be to just go directly for the 2.3SE my current situation likely dictates a “climb the ladder” approach. Just not sure if there is worthwhile benefit to using Abbas USB-SPDIF converter with an entry-level Abbas DAC (e.g., 2.2 with future upgrade) or better to invest in a higher-level DAC from the start (4.1SE or U SE) and sort the USB-SPDIF conversion some other way (e.g., Meridian or used Schiit EITR)?
MattyW Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 (edited) 2.2SE is spectacular. It's the Z and 1.1 which are entry level though. Always go the SE version as they've been voiced with better vintage parts. Edited June 18, 2021 by MattyW 1
DrMikeOz Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 1 hour ago, krazywaffle said: Heard back from Abbas and here are his currently available DACs and associated prices: “Now we have this list of DA converters. TDA1540 it is DAC X SE But it is still undergoing trials. Price: ( bank transfer) •DAC 2.2 TDA1541, 6N6P, EZ80, EAA91,E180F 980usd it is not SE version. •DAC 0.11 SE a new model coming soon TDA1543, EZ90, EZ90, 5687 price will be formed later •DAC X SE +output stage 7/1ver. E182CC+5Y3+EZ90+EB91+E180F TDA1540P coming soon, price will be formed later •DAC 2.3SE + output stage 7/1 ver. E182CC+5Y3 +EZ90+EB91+E180F TDA1541R1 2300usd •DAC 2.3SE+ output stage 7/1ver. signature TDA1541A, black gate power tank WK caps , siemens power transformer in digital section 3600usd •DAC 3.1 SE + 6BL7 output stage + EF12+ EZ11, TDA1541A 2800usd •DAC 3.1SE+ 6080 output stage +EZ90+EZ90+EF12+EZ11, TDA1541A , a new price will be later ( all pcbs are sold) •DAC 4.1SE 5687+EZ90+EZ35 1700usd PCM58P-K •DAC U SE + output stage 7/1 ver( PCM63) 5687, EZ35 PCM63P-J ( we have no PCM63P-K now) 1700usd •DAC 5.0 SE + output stage 7/1 ver. E182CC +5Y3+ EZ80, AD1865 / AD1864 coming soon, price will be formed later •DAC3.1SE signature + D3a siemens output stage + AZ1 + EF12+ EZ11 + TDA1541S1 crown, black gate power tank, siemens- klangfilm transformers 7800usd •USB-SPDIF converter 4 tube 630usd Curious what the prices will be for the TBD items, but based on this list the bolded items are currently within budget and the italic item seems to be the most recommended (2.3SE). Seems research into the different DAC chips and tubes is needed to better understand the primary differences between these versions; however, I’d venture to guess that they all sound as good or better than another DAC with the same retail price. Any thoughts on: USB-SPDIF converter + 2.2 (≈$1,600USD) versus 4.1SE ($1700USD) or U SE ($1700USD)? As appealing as it would be to just go directly for the 2.3SE my current situation likely dictates a “climb the ladder” approach. Just not sure if there is worthwhile benefit to using Abbas USB-SPDIF converter with an entry-level Abbas DAC (e.g., 2.2 with future upgrade) or better to invest in a higher-level DAC from the start (4.1SE or U SE) and sort the USB-SPDIF conversion some other way (e.g., Meridian or used Schiit EITR)? I've got the DAC U SE (which has the dual burr brown chips) as well as the 2.3 SE (TDA1541A) - I think the 2.3SE is better in terms of bass and does feel like there is more weight to the sound but honestly both are great, and I have kept the DAC U for my downstairs system. 1
MattyW Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 (edited) I think the DAC X will be interesting. I wasn't aware he had a TDA1540 DAC in development. The 1540D is a very special sounding chip sounding very very natural even without using tubes etc. So long as it's implemented non oversampling and the DAC output stage is fully discrete it sounds fantastic. I wonder if the 1540P chips can be swapped for 1540D. The ceramic chips sound better Edited June 18, 2021 by MattyW
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