Upgrade to Altair G1 or use CXN V1 as streamer and buy new DAC?

[PeterB7858]

Hi, I am looking to upgrade the dac/streamer component of my setup and would appreciate some wisdom from SNA members

 

My current setup is:

Op-amp rolled Kinki Studio EXM1 integrated amp; Cambridge Audio CXN V1 streamer/DAC; PMC twenty5.21 bookshelf speakers; REL T/7i subwoofer; DYI pure silver XLR interconnects; DYI high quality speaker cables, DYI speaker stands and DYI rack (see photo below).

 

The room is 5.0m (w) x 5.78m (long) x 2.7m (h) but household harmony issues prevent any obvious room treatment, as it is our main living room.

 

The CXN is usually fed CD-quality or higher WAV and FLAC  files via WiFi from a dedicated MacBook Pro (late 2012) running Audirvana set up in an adjacent room near our NBN modem and separate router. The MacBook Pro is connected to an ASUS RT-AC68U router via Supra ethernet cable. Music files are stored on an external SSD connected to the USB 3.0 input of the router via an AudioQuest Cinnamon USB cable.

 

The Audirvana audio output is deliberately restricted to 24/96 and WiFi copes with this 95+% of the time even though the WiFi dongle on the CXN is single-band wireless N only (and I haven’t been able to find a dongle upgrade anywhere to dual-band or AC). NB. Running ethernet is not really an option.

 

I have also used REW to assess the low-frequency profile of the listening room and use the Audio Units capability of Audirvana to apply some parametric equalisation to the low end only. This has tightened things up bit.

 

BTW, I don’t use Tidal/Qobuz or Internet Radio. I’ve tried all three and, in the end, I have so much locally stored music that I am happy to listen to that and I found they languished “on the shelf”. I have also tried Roon and am not prepared to pay the asking price for what it brings to the table. I also thought Audirvana sounded better in my system…

 

I do have an Apple Music subscription that I listen to when out and about using wireless ear-buds and I can stream that via AirPlay (1) to the CXN. I generally do this to trial listen to an album before buying a digital copy of it from zdigital.com.au or bandcamp.com or HDTracks or wherever… if I like it. Local file playback is a priority.

 

Anyway, the upshot is that I can get very good sound out of the setup, BUT…

 

The setup is a bit complicated, relies on WiFi and, sonically I am looking for a bit better soundstage width and depth than I currently get, whilst still being able to do some low end DSP.

 

I am thinking that I will upgrade to an Auralic Altair G1 with internal HDD as it will hopefully tick all of the above boxes. Lightning DS seems to be functional and I would have a high-quality, one-box, one-room solution

 

There are dealers in Melbourne where I can audition the Altair G1 against the CXN V2 (and the Cambridge 851N, for that matter), so take it as a given that I will do due diligence before purchase.

 

If any SNA member has an Altair G1, I would be very keen to hear their impressions of the unit.

 

Also, are there any other streamer/dacs up to $4K, or so, that I should consider that fill most, if not all of my requirements? Lumin’s get a good wrap but won’t tick all of the boxes, functionality wise.

 

OR, should I consider using the CXN V1 as just a streamer and buy a new DAC such as a Denafrips Pontus, for example, and, hopefully, get improved sound/soundstaging, even though this will lead to an even more complex system?

 

Or, is the digital out of the CXN (Coax or Toslink) likely to be a weak link feeding something like the Denafrips Pontus or other similar quality dac and therefore not worth it?

 

Any thoughts/feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

Kind regards,

 

Peter

 

PS. Sorry for the length. I always write too much

 

[Jventer]

The Altair G1 is better.

No offence, but based on personal experience ( and on forums, feedback, etc.) Cambridge Audio is Mid Fi. Auralic is Hi Fi.

The question/problem is the price difference between the Cambridge Audio and the Auralic. The age old issue of diminishing returns.

I would suggest that the G1 would be about 20% better.

[Guest]

No need to apologise for the length; it is most refreshing to have detailed information.

 

I am known to advocate simpler solutions, so no surprise my suggestion to go Altair. You could also investigate Innuos.

[PeterB7858]

  On 06/04/2021 at 7:33 AM, Jventer said:

The Altair G1 is better.

No offence, but based on personal experience ( and on forums, feedback, etc.) Cambridge Audio is Mid Fi. Auralic is Hi Fi.

The question/problem is the price difference between the Cambridge Audio and the Auralic. The age old issue of diminishing returns.

I would suggest that the G1 would be about 20% better.

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Thanks, J. 

No offence taken

The CXN was my first dip into the digital/streaming world and I'm sure there are plenty of better options out there, at a price.

The Altair G1 is within the budget I have set myself and I'm quite hopeful it will be a step up in quality when I audition it.

Regards,

Peter

[PeterB7858]

  On 06/04/2021 at 7:34 AM, Snoopy8 said:

No need to apologise for the length; it is most refreshing to have detailed information.

 

I am known to advocate simpler solutions, so no surprise my suggestion to go Altair. You could also investigate Innuos.

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Thanks, Snoopy.

Yes, the single box solution of the Altair G1 appeals to me, as well. 

Never really read much about Innuos products. I will investigate them. Thanks.

Regards,

Peter

[Jventer]

  On 06/04/2021 at 7:53 AM, PeterB7858 said:

Thanks, J. 

No offence taken

The CXN was my first dip into the digital/streaming world and I'm sure there are plenty of better options out there, at a price.

The Altair G1 is within the budget I have set myself and I'm quite hopeful it will be a step up in quality when I audition it.

Regards,

Peter

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Hi Peter

I have the older "brother": the Auralic Aries  Femto, and it has beaten many alternatives.

As I have mentioned, if you are Ok with the spending it is all good.

 

I have to apologise, I did not mention that the Auralic products only work with Apple products. (Not sure if it is impossible to control via Android or if there are work  arounds).

[Hydrology]

Reading your situation, a music server first (streamer second) would probably make the biggest difference, considering the bulk of your music is local. A server will do a much better job of cataloguing your music collection, unlike a streamer. As an Innuos owner, this would fit the bill (as well as making future Cd ripping a breeze to do). 

 

However, the Auralic will do a better job of being your end point than the Cambridge, but I assume the CXN is also your DAC right?

 

Edit: Just saw the G1 has local storage onboard, so thats good. Just hope youre an iOS user though! (no Android app)

Edited April 6, 2021 by Hydrology

[PeterB7858]

Thanks, J.

No problems. I was aware of that limitation. It does appear there are workarounds, as you say, though.

I have been using Apple products for a long time and we have plenty of iPads and iPhones to use as controllers  

[PeterB7858]

  On 06/04/2021 at 8:25 AM, Hydrology said:

Reading your situation, a music server first (streamer second) would probably make the biggest difference, considering the bulk of your music is local. A server will do a much better job of cataloguing your music collection, unlike a streamer. As an Innuos owner, this would fit the bill (as well as making future Cd ripping a breeze to do). 

 

However, the Auralic will do a better job of being your end point than the Cambridge, but I assume the CXN is also your DAC right?

 

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Thanks for your input, H.

Yes the CXN is also my DAC in this setup.

Actually, I have already ripped nearly 400 CDs to WAV using dbPowerAmp and my Mac Mini desktop setup so I really don't need a ripper, anymore.

I need to look into Innuos more closely to really get a handle on what they offer. Are we talking the Zen Mk III?

Regards,

Peter.

[Hydrology]

  On 06/04/2021 at 8:30 AM, PeterB7858 said:

 

Thanks for your input, H.

Yes the CXN is also my DAC in this setup.

Actually, I have already ripped nearly 400 CDs to WAV using dbPowerAmp and my Mac Mini desktop setup so I really don't need a ripper, anymore.

I need to look into Innuos more closely to really get a handle on what they offer. Are we talking the Zen Mk III?

Regards,

Peter.

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A Zen (as well as the Mini) should fall into the budget. The ZEN incorporates a dual linear power supply, which shouldnt be overlooked in the realm of digital audio. The ZEN Mini could replace the CXN potentially (having its own on-board DAC) but you might boost simplicity over performance, hence why the ZEN might give the biggest benefits.

But as you say, auditioning is key and you might come back with an entirely different opinion on ALL of the above!!!

 

[Guest]

  On 06/04/2021 at 8:25 AM, PeterB7858 said:

 

No problems. I was aware of that limitation. It does appear there are workarounds, as you say, though.

I have been using Apple products for a long time and we have plenty of iPads and iPhones to use as controllers  

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The workaround with Android is to use UPnP and BubbleUpnp as the app. The question then is how much compromise to SQ ?

 

Do look closely at the Zen and look for comparisons with the Altair. There are fans for each...

[mjs]

As an Auralic user, I would obviously recommend the Auralic route, the Altair G1 would be an excellent solution at that price point. However there are other products at or less than your budget, Matrix Audio and Lumin (which you have mentioned), come to mind. I guess you need to weigh up the benefits of a one box solution vs perhaps a bit more flexibility. The Altair has no digital out for example, so you can’t plug it into an upgraded DAC down the track. However, it’s still a one box solution that’s excellent at that price point.

 

It’s an interesting topic for me. I decided to get more deeply into streaming about a year ago, after a number of years with a Mac Mini and Audirvana+. I started looking at the Bluesound Node 2i, then went quickly to the Cambridge, but given where I am at, I wasn’t happy with that and then looked at the Altair. The Altair would have been excellent, but for me though, a no regrets outcome drove me further up the Auralic food chain to a Vega G2.1, at considerably more dosh than the Altair. It’s amazing what a COVID lockdown will do . Haven’t regretted it, the Vega is an absolutely outstanding Streaming DAC. Six months later I went nuts and added an Aries G 2.1 but that’s another story, again with no regrets.

 

So, in summary, have a critical listen to the Altair, it’s a great all in one streaming DAC/Pre. For me, Geoff Haynes at HeyNow HIFi was very helpful in auditioning Auralic gear and indulging my choices.

[PeterB7858]

  On 06/04/2021 at 12:16 PM, mjs said:

As an Auralic user, I would obviously recommend the Auralic route, the Altair G1 would be an excellent solution at that price point. However there are other products at or less than your budget, Matrix Audio and Lumin (which you have mentioned), come to mind. I guess you need to weigh up the benefits of a one box solution vs perhaps a bit more flexibility. The Altair has no digital out for example, so you can’t plug it into an upgraded DAC down the track. However, it’s still a one box solution that’s excellent at that price point.

 

It’s an interesting topic for me. I decided to get more deeply into streaming about a year ago, after a number of years with a Mac Mini and Audirvana+. I started looking at the Bluesound Node 2i, then went quickly to the Cambridge, but given where I am at, I wasn’t happy with that and then looked at the Altair. The Altair would have been excellent, but for me though, a no regrets outcome drove me further up the Auralic food chain to a Vega G2.1, at considerably more dosh than the Altair. It’s amazing what a COVID lockdown will do . Haven’t regretted it, the Vega is an absolutely outstanding Streaming DAC. Six months later I went nuts and added an Aries G 2.1 but that’s another story, again with no regrets.

 

So, in summary, have a critical listen to the Altair, it’s a great all in one streaming DAC/Pre. For me, Geoff Haynes at HeyNow HIFi was very helpful in auditioning Auralic gear and indulging my choices.

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Thanks for your valuable thoughts, mjs.

Your hifi journey is impressive.

Auralic make some very highly regarded products, for sure.

The Vega G.1 is probably won't be on my horizon any time soon but I'm glad you are really happy with it.

In terms of a balance with the rest of my system, and the functionality I think I need, the Altair G1 seems to fit right in the sweet spot for me. I am aware that it has no digital output but I'm probably going to have to win Tattslotto to go too further up the hifi food chain .

I have tweaked my current system within an inch of its life and really enjoy the sound quality it offers most of the time so I am hopeful that a step up in class to the Altair G1 will keep me very happy for the foreseeable future.

Regards,

Peter.

[mjs]

  On 06/04/2021 at 1:06 PM, PeterB7858 said:

 

Thanks for your valuable thoughts, mjs.

Your hifi journey is impressive.

Auralic make some very highly regarded products, for sure.

The Vega G.1 is probably won't be on my horizon any time soon but I'm glad you are really happy with it.

In terms of a balance with the rest of my system, and the functionality I think I need, the Altair G1 seems to fit right in the sweet spot for me. I am aware that it has no digital output but I'm probably going to have to win Tattslotto to go too further up the hifi food chain .

I have tweaked my current system within an inch of its life and really enjoy the sound quality it offers most of the time so I am hopeful that a step up in class to the Altair G1 will keep me very happy for the foreseeable future.

Regards,

Peter.

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Sounds like a plan! Good luck!

[TerryO]

Hi Peter,

 

Either the Innuos or the Auralic are very good options, I am happy to have both brands in my demo systems including an Altair, a Aries G2.1 and for Innuos a Zenith Mk3.
Bang for dollar the Altair is very hard to beat and does everything it’s designed to do extremely well. 
 

cheers,

Terry

Edited April 6, 2021 by TerryO

[PeterB7858]

  On 06/04/2021 at 5:39 PM, TerryO said:

Hi Peter,

 

Either the Innuos or the Auralic are very good options, I am happy to have both brands in my demo systems including an Altair, a Aries G2.1 and for Innuos a Zenith Mk3.
Bang for dollar the Altair is very hard to beat and does everything it’s designed to do extremely well. 
 

cheers,

Terry

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Thanks, Terry.

Your thoughts are very welcome.

The Altair does seem to offer everything I am looking for in a single box solution.

 

In terms of pursuing an Innuos based solution, which, based on their design brief and reviews I'm sure would sound great, it seems that it I would be in for a much higher overall cost outlay?

 

The Zen Mk 3 seems to be a bit going for a bit over $4k with a 1 TB HDD, which is within my budget, but unless I just use it to just feed the CXN V1 and use its existing DAC, I would need to buy a better, stand alone DAC (and high quality cable) to really take advantage of its low-noise serving capabilities. Have I got that right?

And, as mentioned above, the CD-ripping functionality of the Innuous is not something I need any more so, as is, I would be paying over $4k for a low-noise server to feed music files into a higher noise, lower spec, CXN V1 DAC?

 

Question (to all SNR members, as well) - Is this a viable setup?

 

It also seems that the Innuos Zen Mk 3 requires an ethernet connection to achieve full functionality? Do I have that right?

It doesn't seem to have any WiFi specs that I can find. So I still end up using the CXN StreamMagic app to control the music?

 

Am I missing something, in all this? I very well could be .

 

Any clarification as to how either the ZenMini or the Zen would fit into my system, as is, given the constraints of the current setup (i.e. no ethernet), and a ~$4k budget, would be greatly appreciated.

 

Kind regards,

 

Peter.

[kukynas]

You need Dac and if one box solution is required/prefered than anything from Innuos is out, secondly I’m not sure if you still require dsp, if yes than either extra box or something like Nad C 658 with onboard Dirac Live, if not than streamer with built in dac such as Auralic already mentioned or many others, if I would be looking for new streamer it would be Lumin for its excellent app, I tried most of them and Lumin is hands down one of the best, second would be Auralic, plenty of users of both camps here on SNA so you should be able to get decent feedback if you ask

[JB82]

Another option that never seems to get a mention is the Aurender

 

Preamp, DAC, streamer, server all in one. Quality is second to none, A2A Melbourne might be worth calling to see if they have one you could audition & compare.

 

$3,899.35

 

https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/aurender-a100-caching-network-music-server-player-with-analog-outputs

[PeterB7858]

  On 06/04/2021 at 9:04 PM, kukynas said:

You need Dac and if one box solution is required/prefered than anything from Innuos is out, secondly I’m not sure if you still require dsp, if yes than either extra box or something like Nad C 658 with onboard Dirac Live, if not than streamer with built in dac such as Auralic already mentioned or many others, if I would be looking for new streamer it would be Lumin for its excellent app, I tried most of them and Lumin is hands down one of the best, second would be Auralic, plenty of users of both camps here on SNA so you should be able to get decent feedback if you ask

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Thanks, Daniel.

 

DSP tools are not a deal breaker but it would be good if they could be part of the setup, since room treatment is not a realistic option at the moment. The Altair G1 includes parametric EQ and wall boundary reflection tools in the Lightning DS app, so they would seem to be a viable option. I can use REW and have the mics, etc.. to analyse the setup and then just add some low end EQ in to, hopefully, tame a few room modes.

 

I did investigate the NAD C 658 with Dirac Live and, it could be a viable option, but I'm not sure if it is really going to give me a big step up in SQ over the Audirvana/EQ Audio Unit option I currently have? Happy to hear from others if they have a different view re this. I can actually audition this against the Altair at a local dealer, too.

 

I also investigated Lumin products and, as you say, they are highly regarded, but all seem to require an ethernet connection to function? No WiFi? And adding a Lumin L1 Music server is quite expensive. The Altair can include a 2TB internal HDD/SSD for an extra $400 or so. 

 

As always, I'm happy to hear Lumin devotees to persuade me otherwise .

 

Regards,

Peter.

[PeterB7858]

  On 06/04/2021 at 9:53 PM, JB82 said:

Another option that never seems to get a mention is the Aurender

 

Preamp, DAC, streamer, server all in one. Quality is second to none, A2A Melbourne might be worth calling to see if they have one you could audition & compare.

 

$3,899.35

 

https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/aurender-a100-caching-network-music-server-player-with-analog-outputs

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Thanks, JB.

 

A2A have some great deals on Aurender products at the moment.

The A100 seems to tick a lot of boxes, including internal 2TB HDD, and would be something I would seriously consider, but again, unless I have got this all wrong, doesn't seem to be stand alone, in the sense that it doesn't have WiFi and needs an to ethernet connection connect to control apps, Tidal, etc.?

 

My NBN modem and router are in another room in the house, so I would need to run ethernet to the living room, or buy a couple of new tri-band routers and set up a mesh system with a 5GHz backline. Possible, for sure, but not as simple as plonking an Altair in place of the CXN?

 

Kind regards,

 

Peter.

 

P.S. The A100 doesn't have balanced XLR outs, which I would prefer. I see the A10 does but it costs more again..

Edited April 6, 2021 by PeterB7858
Forgot something...

[madfonzy]

  On 06/04/2021 at 8:17 PM, PeterB7858 said:

It also seems that the Innuos Zen Mk 3 requires an ethernet connection to achieve full functionality? Do I have that right?

It doesn't seem to have any WiFi specs that I can find.

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You could look at using a wireless network bridge to get a LAN cable to your streamer. That would involve getting another router and configuring as a bridge though.  So you will end up with a faster and more stable LAN connection.  Also gets you more options with wired streamers.

[PeterB7858]

  On 06/04/2021 at 11:01 PM, madfonzy said:

You could look at using a wireless network bridge to get a LAN cable to your streamer. That would involve getting another router and configuring as a bridge though.  So you will end up with a faster and more stable LAN connection.  Also gets you more options with wired streamers.

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Thanks, Fonzy (I've always want to say that ).

 

Yes, I agree with you. Having a wired ethernet connection locally available certainly increases the options I have re quality streamer/dacs.

 

I have set up bridged wireless connections in the past and given I would most often be playing music files locally attached to the streamer (internally or externally), and I don't stream hi-res Tidal, etc. then a bridge may very well do the trick under minimal loading. I will look into this further.

 

I also actually have a friend who is a network electrician, so perhaps it is time to bite the bullet and get him to install a few ethernet runs in the house from the router. 

 

Regards,

 

Peter.

[lenticularis]

There’s an Aria Piccolo streamer in the Classifieds that Isuggest is well worth consideration.

 

I’m a happy Auralic Aries Femto user myself and feed a Gieseler Kompakt DAC. Both of those are excellent IMHO. 

[anandpkumar]

Another happy user of the Auralic family - though I have the older Aries femto. Highly recommended brand. I use Andriod mostly through BubbleUpnP. Not the best solution compared to the iOS interface, but you can live with it. You do need an iPad/iPhone for the first time configuration or if you need to make any changes to the settings. I have my Auralic streamer connected to a WiFi setup and have had no problems over the past year or so running Tidal. No buffering/lag - I do have a reasonably fast wifi setup though!

[PeterB7858]

  On 07/04/2021 at 12:26 AM, lenticularis said:

There’s an Aria Piccolo streamer in the Classifieds that Isuggest is well worth consideration.

 

I’m a happy Auralic Aries Femto user myself and feed a Gieseler Kompakt DAC. Both of those are excellent IMHO. 

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Thanks, David.

I will need to do some research on the Piccolo. I've never come across it before.

Auralic and Gieseler should be a fine combo.

 

Regards,

 

Peter