fjs Posted September 15, 2022 Posted September 15, 2022 Noticed that Doogie44 sets sampling at 24/96. I too don’t notice any difference between 24/96 or 24/192 but usually set it at 24/192. I’ve wondered what qobuz does, does it down sample a 24/192 to 24/96 or does it stream at two different sampling rates. Also I have noticed that my Ibasso dx160 has trouble streaming at anything other than cd quality although my main system has no trouble at any bit rate. I think the Ibasso is a bit buggy so I blame it.
doogie44 Posted September 15, 2022 Author Posted September 15, 2022 SOME QUOTES FROM QOBUZ FORUMS on REDDIT & HEAD-FI [I believe that Qobuz applies a filter if you set the 'lower sampling rate' of 24/96 and the file is a 24/192 (of which there are fairly few)] "The setting as I understand it will merely not present you with any content at a higher sampling rate (i.e. filter it out) - there is definitely no resampling done. In reality anything at > 96Khz will in all likelihood be available at 96Khz or below as well on Q obuz. I know this from experience with a lot of The Rolling Stones catalogue." I also read this: "Is 192kHz better than 48khz? Is 192kHz better than 96kHz? Because 192kHz is taking 2 two times as many samples per second than 96kHz, it will require twice as much hard-drive space to store and will require the computer to process twice as much in the same amount of time (my italics). Not great, especially when there isn't that much of an advantage over 96kHz." You will always get the maximum sample rate where the content allows that matches or is below your maximum listening quality (mlq) setting. In the unusual situation where the content is only available at a higher sample rate than your mlq, you will get the higher sample rate. In practice, as I suspect EVERY track on Qobuz is at least available in 16/44.1, this is not going to happen. "I presume it would be easier for Qobuz to have multiple versions rather than downsample & stream on the fly. Not all releases are available at 192 so much of their catalogue would only require two or three versions. If you want to listen to higher sampling rate music, you can download for offline use. Important thing is how well the original recording was made, how good the files are that are provided to Qobuz and how it sounds to you." I hope this helps
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted September 15, 2022 Volunteer Posted September 15, 2022 Is the bit in bold italics actually correct?
doogie44 Posted September 15, 2022 Author Posted September 15, 2022 I don't know--I'm a maths illiterate! Found the original quote, about 4 paras up from the bottom of the article: https://audient.com/tutorial/why-dont-audient-interfaces-support-192khz/
2Brix Posted October 1, 2022 Posted October 1, 2022 Probs a silly question, but is it possible to search Qobuz via their website for what HD tracks they have? Or is that only possible by taking up the free trial or subscription. A streamer purchase is something i'm seriously contemplating but it would be 3 - 6 months away and it's still a bit chicken and egg.....so i was curious to know if i could do any pre-research.
Kirby66 Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 17 hours ago, 2Brix said: is it possible to search Qobuz via their website for what HD tracks they have? Hey @2Brix ... I'm pretty sure you can. I have a subscription but it doesn't automatically log me in and I can search prior to doing so. Just click on the link to the download store and search away 1
Niktech Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 17 hours ago, 2Brix said: Probs a silly question, but is it possible to search Qobuz via their website for what HD tracks they have? Or is that only possible by taking up the free trial or subscription. A streamer purchase is something i'm seriously contemplating but it would be 3 - 6 months away and it's still a bit chicken and egg.....so i was curious to know if i could do any pre-research. It is a very good idea to work out during the trial period if there are enough HD/ hi res tracks to warrant you paying for the studio package on Qobuz or Hifi plus on Tidal package etc. The genres I listen too, minimal techno, deep house, tech house, downtempo (chillgressive) etc etc - the above streaming services, for the most part, don’t really offer anything better than red book cd quality. Therefore, it was a waste for me to pay for the premium packages. YMMV. Although I know you like the electronic stuff 1 1
2Brix Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 cheers @Kirby66 i'll give that a crack this evening. cheers too @Niktech ...yeah that's why i'm a bit unsure. One of the local stores has very generously offered to loan me a couple of streamers to try at home, but i will hold off until i have the readies (and some holidays)....then i will free trial Qobuz and other(s) to see whether the selection and quality is ok for me. Cheers 2B 1
fjs Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 I subscribe to qobuz studio which streams up to 24/192. I also subscribe to deezer which streams max 16/44.1 or cd quality. I initially subscribed to tidal hifi which streamed up to 24/192 with mqa. My streamers are bluesound node 2i, squeezebox touch using lms from laptop and also my android phone using a cayin ru6 dac/amp. IMHO, through the equipment that I have I can hear absolutely no difference between hires and cd quality streaming and very minimal difference between 320 and cd quality but on some tracks it is very obvious. My caveat is that I’m an older enthusiast and about the max frequency range I can hear is 12khz. To me the biggest difference between the streaming services is the UI and the fact that I dislike mqa filtering so I’ve settled on qobuz and deezer. I’ve never tried streamers in the $5000 plus range but, again, IMHO that’s what you would need to hear much of a Difference between cd and hires. I think that hires is a bit of a con job. In my younger days as a guitarist I played and recorded live music. During the recording process I recorded at 24/192 but that was only to give me some bandwidth to edit ultimately your mix down to 16/96. My thoughts anyway. 2
doogie44 Posted October 2, 2022 Author Posted October 2, 2022 ...is it possible to search Qobuz via their website for what HD tracks they have? I'm a subscriber; if you put Hi Res in the search engine of Qobuz a large list of such releases appears. And it's a 'tag' in Qobuz too. Don't know if that would happen for 'ordinary people'...
2Brix Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 Thanks @doogie44 For me. just navigating to their website as a non-subscriber i don't seem to see a Search option? ...but selecting 'Download store' takes me to a search bar. There if i type Hi-Res (using their syntax) it only gets 182 results...which seems wrong, like way way too little. I must be doing something wrong? or they see i'm not a subscriber I suspect the download store might only offer a fraction of the total high res listings, but still thought that fraction would amount to thousands of songs/albums. Might just have to wait until the time is right for me to do a free trial.
doogie44 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Posted October 3, 2022 Also, I found this from 2021 (https://www.soundguys.com/qobuz-review-50100/): Qobuz has over 70 million tracks in Hi-Fi quality and over 424,000 albums in Hi-Res quality. Anecdotally I have heard that some 10% of files are hi res in any streaming provider. What I can say is that the hi res files in Qobuz (including the 16/48.1 and especially the 24/96 and the 24/192 files) sound excellent via my Auralic G1 and my Denafrips Pontus 2. Even the CD quality 16/44 do too. By this I mean no listener fatigue and a good measure of relaxation and musical enjoyment while listening. Not always perfect--but very good indeed. I suppose it does also depend on the original recording. I am quite willing to pay a subscription for this 5
Gilz Posted October 5, 2022 Posted October 5, 2022 A tip for anyone wanting to become a Qobuz subscriber but who doesn’t have the right streamer. I was using Tidal through a Cambridge CXN V1 but could only stream CD quality (I think MQA is a money making gimmick) through Tidal Connect. Cambridge integrated Qobuz into V2 of the CXN but not V1. Since I didn’t like the idea of spending hundreds (thousands?) of dollars for a Qobuz compatible streamer I bought a Wiim Mini for $120. I connect it by toslink to my Chord Qutest and get up to 24 bit/192 kHz using the Wiim Mini Qobuz app and the sound to my ears is superior to Tidal. I know it’s hotly debated but I don’t think the quality of the streamer is important with bit perfect pass through, only the quality of the dac. The Wiim also includes all the major streaming services, AirPlay 2, Bluetooth and I think Chromecast may be coming. Great little device. 3
Neo Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gilz said: A tip for anyone wanting to become a Qobuz subscriber but who doesn’t have the right streamer. I was using Tidal through a Cambridge CXN V1 but could only stream CD quality (I think MQA is a money making gimmick) through Tidal Connect. Cambridge integrated Qobuz into V2 of the CXN but not V1. Since I didn’t like the idea of spending hundreds (thousands?) of dollars for a Qobuz compatible streamer I bought a Wiim Mini for $120. I connect it by toslink to my Chord Qutest and get up to 24 bit/192 kHz using the Wiim Mini Qobuz app and the sound to my ears is superior to Tidal. I know it’s hotly debated but I don’t think the quality of the streamer is important with bit perfect pass through, only the quality of the dac. The Wiim also includes all the major streaming services, AirPlay 2, Bluetooth and I think Chromecast may be coming. Great little device. Really in my experience it took three songs if that to determine that Auralic Aries Femto $2400 was going to be for sale here after demo a Naim NDX that is $6800. So bits are not bits passing through and if what you implemented with Wiim works for you and you can’t hear the difference, awesome. But there are other better options out there. One needs to experiment more, until coming to a final conclusion. Neo Edited October 6, 2022 by Neo 2
Gilz Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 Not going to get into another pointless discussion about the science of audio and what people hear and you are entitled to your opinion. I assume the Naim NDX has a very high quality dac and it sounds great. If so it will be impossible to tell if the streaming side component is making an audible difference or the high quality dac. As I said these circular debates on what is audible are pointless. Bits are bits and the Wiim Mini sends a pure bit for bit signal and so the overall sound will be determined by the external dac, amp and speakers. This is from the Audio Science review of the Wiim Mini which actually measured the streaming output of the device through the Toslink connection and didn’t rely on what the reviewer subjectively thought he heard. ”Conclusions…….If you use the App and Toslink output, you basically have a transparent wireless link to your stereo. Connect it to your favorite DAC and your performance will only be limited by the rest of your system”. With that in mind my only point was that you don’t need to spend more on the streaming side of the audio chain to listen to Qobuz 24bit/192khz recordings. The DAC is the difference.
Godot Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Gilz said: Not going to get into another pointless discussion about the science of audio and what people hear and you are entitled to your opinion. I assume the Naim NDX has a very high quality dac and it sounds great. If so it will be impossible to tell if the streaming side component is making an audible difference or the high quality dac. As I said these circular debates on what is audible are pointless. Bits are bits and the Wiim Mini sends a pure bit for bit signal and so the overall sound will be determined by the external dac, amp and speakers. This is from the Audio Science review of the Wiim Mini which actually measured the streaming output of the device through the Toslink connection and didn’t rely on what the reviewer subjectively thought he heard. ”Conclusions…….If you use the App and Toslink output, you basically have a transparent wireless link to your stereo. Connect it to your favorite DAC and your performance will only be limited by the rest of your system”. With that in mind my only point was that you don’t need to spend more on the streaming side of the audio chain to listen to Qobuz 24bit/192khz recordings. The DAC is the difference. I found this helpful to address some of the points of discussion and claims made. Not actually to do directly with Qobuz, apologies for being a bit off topic, but felt it may have been helpful to the “bits are bits” conversation. I do have an Antipodes product, not at the high end of their range, and I stream Qobuz. Love it. https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/darko-audio-podcast/id1368388920?i=1000577559249 Edited October 6, 2022 by Godot
Guest Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 4 hours ago, Gilz said: As I said these circular debates on what is audible are pointless. You said pointless and yet you decide to start another round??? .
Gilz Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 Just pointing out, with supporting evidence, that the Wiim Mini is a very good streamer for the money. My original post didn’t canvas any debate. People get very defensive when their assumptions are challenged.
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted October 6, 2022 Volunteer Posted October 6, 2022 This topic is about Quobuz. “Bits are bits” comments are not really relevant and threaten to derail the conversation. So let’s please stay on topic. 2
Nada Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 14 hours ago, Gilz said: Qobuz compatible streamer I bought a Wiim Mini for $120. I connect it by toslink to my Chord Qutest and get up to 24 bit/192 kHz using the Wiim Mini Qobuz app and the sound to my ears is superior Nice tip for Qobuz streaming thanks.
fjs Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 This particular forum is indeed about qobuz but I have this feeling that many streaming hardware manufactures tailor the sound of their equipment to favour certain streaming platforms. Growing older I have grown more suspicious and would not be surprised if some streamer hardware manufactures work hand in glove with streaming platforms. Perhaps those of us, not me, who are cleaver enough to build Raseberry pi or similar streamers are in the best position to judge streaming platforms. Just a thought.
Neo Posted October 7, 2022 Posted October 7, 2022 On 6/10/2022 at 1:58 PM, Gilz said: Not going to get into another pointless discussion about the science of audio and what people hear and you are entitled to your opinion. I assume the Naim NDX has a very high quality dac and it sounds great. If so it will be impossible to tell if the streaming side component is making an audible difference or the high quality dac. As I said these circular debates on what is audible are pointless. Bits are bits and the Wiim Mini sends a pure bit for bit signal and so the overall sound will be determined by the external dac, amp and speakers. This is from the Audio Science review of the Wiim Mini which actually measured the streaming output of the device through the Toslink connection and didn’t rely on what the reviewer subjectively thought he heard. ”Conclusions…….If you use the App and Toslink output, you basically have a transparent wireless link to your stereo. Connect it to your favorite DAC and your performance will only be limited by the rest of your system”. With that in mind my only point was that you don’t need to spend more on the streaming side of the audio chain to listen to Qobuz 24bit/192khz recordings. The DAC is the difference. Naim was and still used purely as a transport, so bypassing the Dac. Auralic Aries femto is a purely a streamer with no Dac. Neo
frankn Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 Quick question for the hive; is there a setting in Qobuz account that says only play a sample of each track? I think I set-up myself for the 2month free trial but everything I try to play interactively (stream) seems only to play a sample of each track on an album. Not sure whether I haven’t yet completed the setup correctly or if there is something else I am required to complete. Help appreciated.
Nada Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 25 minutes ago, frankn said: I set-up myself for the 2month free trial What offer was that - do you have a link? Have you been with Qobuz before?
Kirby66 Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 41 minutes ago, frankn said: Quick question for the hive; is there a setting in Qobuz account that says only play a sample of each track? I think I set-up myself for the 2month free trial but everything I try to play interactively (stream) seems only to play a sample of each track on an album. Not sure whether I haven’t yet completed the setup correctly or if there is something else I am required to complete. Help appreciated. @frankn are you trying to ‘stream’ from the Qobuz download store or from the app or from a streamer … when you’re in the download store and hit play on a track it just plays a sample - download the app if you haven’t already and it should then play on your device, if accessing from a streamer that is Qobuz compatible there will be a link in the UI (you will need to log in the first time I think)
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