doogie44 Posted November 26, 2022 Author Posted November 26, 2022 Dare one hope that the rising quality of streaming services generally (and Qobuz specifically)--coupled with the better-implemented digital architecture of mid-range to high-range sonically-pleasing streamers--heralds the dawn of a mature digital technology? That even lesser mortals can use easily and conveniently? I am inclining in that direction. In the same way that vinyl-playing technology has steadily improved over the years I think we are now seeing the wider adoption of digital standards that extract ever-higher quality from the digital recording. Who knows how much more musically naturalistic the resulting sound can/could be? Long may that innovation continue! 4
Nada Posted November 27, 2022 Posted November 27, 2022 3 hours ago, doogie44 said: Dare one hope that the rising quality of streaming services generally (and Qobuz specifically)--coupled with the better-implemented digital architecture of mid-range to high-range sonically-pleasing streamers--heralds the dawn of a mature digital technology? Qobuz is certainly doing something interesting with streaming sound quality. However, some DAC's from thirty years ago eg Wadia with PCM63 and Mark Levinson with PCM 1704, still sound better than many modern streamers to audiophile sensibilities. This idea that new technology is better, that so clearly applies to eg TV's isnt being followed by DAC's. It's weird.
ICUToo Posted November 27, 2022 Posted November 27, 2022 5 hours ago, doogie44 said: Dare one hope that the rising quality of streaming services generally (and Qobuz specifically)--coupled with the better-implemented digital architecture of mid-range to high-range sonically-pleasing streamers--heralds the dawn of a mature digital technology I agree. Hopefully a quality bit-stream but also (and this may be fantasy) they will source their digital masters from the best-quality original eg something with the best dynamic range rather than a late-generation poor-quality copy.... 2
Nick44 Posted November 27, 2022 Posted November 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Nada said: Qobuz is certainly doing something interesting with streaming sound quality. However, some DAC's from thirty years ago eg Wadia with PCM63 and Mark Levinson with PCM 1704, still sound better than many modern streamers to audiophile sensibilities. This idea that new technology is better, that so clearly applies to eg TV's isnt being followed by DAC's. It's weird. I have gone from twenty years of delta/sigma DACs to R2R (Denafrips Pontus ii), for me the R2R has been a revelation. I personally much prefer the liquid, rich sound of R2R, some of course may prefer the "cleaner" delta/sigma sound. I recommend trying the new Vikingur Olaffson piano recital "From afar" on Qobuz. It is actually the same recital played twice, first recorded "normally" distanced on a standard concert grand, then the whole recital played again and recorded extremely closely on an old standard upright (like we would have at home) complete with creaks and sounds from the piano included. Played loud via the Lumin u2 mini, R2R dac and tubes is a pretty amazing experience.... 4
Nada Posted November 27, 2022 Posted November 27, 2022 1 hour ago, ICUToo said: I agree. Hopefully a quality bit-stream but also (and this may be fantasy) they will source their digital masters from the best-quality original eg something with the best dynamic range rather than a late-generation poor-quality copy.... Yes, but the dynamic range of master tape is only 77dB at best, so that isn't that great compared to digital. The old master tapes are also deteriorating every year as the magnetic integrity spontaneous fades. Modern recording tech offers massive improvements if we get the compression mastering issues fixed. This is where streaming services may help change the music production chain. In the days of physical media, there was one release with marketing pressure to play loud. Now releases can easily come in different digital formats like HD/CD/DSD. It would not be a huge leap for releases to come with additional compression options. Compressed for the car and broadcasting. High dynamic range for audiophiles. Why not? 2
ICUToo Posted November 27, 2022 Posted November 27, 2022 “Yes, but…” Made me think you disagreed! Yes, let’s ask Qobuz to find the best that they can
Nada Posted November 27, 2022 Posted November 27, 2022 20 minutes ago, ICUToo said: “Yes, but…” Made me think you disagreed! Yes, let’s ask Qobuz to find the best that they can I think you are spot on. The old master tapes have some genius level music. They deserve to be re-digitised in the best ADC's urgently before they degrade any further. Imagine if they could be then re-engineered with max dynamic range and streamed on Qobuz. That would be good for us and good for Qobuz subscriptions. Going forward modern mics and digital recording can be phenomenal. Im optimistic like you are for better music releases ahead. 1
U_J Posted December 16, 2022 Posted December 16, 2022 You only need to listen to the crap digital versions of anything Sheffield Lab to see what happens when the conversion is done poorly ! Just on the Signal to noise of master tapes, I think the S/N is one of the least important aspects of music most music falls within about a 20 or 30db range anyway, the mastering ( recording mic placement, EQ if any and mixing ) are critical, there are some brilliant examples of digital versions of recordings done in the late 1950's to hear this and to see how important it is that we get our digital copies from master tapes or at least first generation tapes before they are lost. What we don't want is rubbish digitised from a 10th generation or an upsample of a CD which has already had who knows what eq done to it
fjs Posted December 16, 2022 Posted December 16, 2022 Just reading the last several posts and it is interesting to note that there seems to be a preoccupation with dynamic range or the assumption that more dynamic range is better hence digital is better because it can achieve dynamic range greater than 90 db. Personally I feel that is what is wrong with digital music, too concerned with specifications. The humble vinyl lp has a dynamic range somewhere between 50-70 db max and we know that many audiophiles prefer the sound of an lp because it has a musicality that digital can lose. My understanding of streaming services like qobuz is that they stream what is given to them by the record companies without modifications other than perhaps the hardware that they use to stream. Some years ago I emailed deezer and asked the question as to why their streamed cd quality was different in sq to tidal cd quality and they replied saying that they only stream what is given to them so not sure why different streaming services should sound different for the same bit configuration but I am perfectly happy with qobuz and I feel that their sound quality has improved since their first introduction into Australia, there seems to be less digital artefacts but this could be my immagination.
Nada Posted December 16, 2022 Posted December 16, 2022 9 hours ago, U_J said: Just on the Signal to noise of master tapes, I think the S/N is one of the least important aspects of music I do like it when there's no tape noise in the background, but Id rather hear great music on old tape then a great digital recording of shite. 8 hours ago, fjs said: I am perfectly happy with qobuz and I feel that their sound quality has improved since their first introduction into Australia, there seems to be less digital artefacts but this could be my imagination. The Qobuz quality for me is great. To match it I often need to run the same tracks I have as files through a digital reconstruction filter with millions of taps. If I was running a streaming service, that's what I would do to all the digital files on the server. As easy as an automatic batch conversion. I'm not saying Qobuz do that. But... 1
2Brix Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 I'm very new to Qobuz...just started the 1 month trial....and wondering if someone can check whether they're getting this issue. I went to play this Shpongle album and despite having the Hi-Res icon at the cover art the tracks themselves play at MP3 Yes i have tried to force select hi-res using the menu bottom right but yo no avail...plays a short preview of MP3 then jumps to the next track. Haven;t found this with other albums (as yet)
doogie44 Posted December 22, 2022 Author Posted December 22, 2022 I think that "everything" on Qobuz is encoded at 16/44 or higher: https://www.techhive.com/article/631030/qobuz-review-2.html "Everything is now available in at least CD quality: 16-bit resolution and a sampling rate of 44.1kHz (a bit rate of 1,411Kbps). A huge percentage is available in higher resolution streams, labeled with the Japan Audio Society’s Hi-Res Audio logo. Those tracks are encoded in 24-bit resolution with sampling rates of either 96- or 192kHz." I have noticed that you can 'sometimes' listen to the same track or album at different resolutions--according to the search layout/selection within Qobuz. From the album you mentioned that is 16/44 or 24/192. But no MP3 coding level in my experience! Perish the thought. Could it be your internet arrangement? Others here might be able to suggest an explanation. Just my 2c worth 1
Nada Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 8 hours ago, 2Brix said: ...plays a short preview of MP3 then jumps to the next track This is as if you arent logged in with an active account. 2
2Brix Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 Many thanks for replies @doogie44 and @Nada Operator error is a distinct possibility...but I'm quite sure i was logged in...and sober ....nor shpongled ....as i could replicate the issue by going to previously played artists/albums and happily play at Hi-Res or CD rez as applicable then come back to that particular Shpongle album and have the same issue....f'annoying...I also had a similar issue with at least one album by Maceo Parker. Over the last couple of nights i'd sampled a few dozen albums with (so far) no probs except the above 2 examples. Anyhoo I'll recheck tonight or next chance during my C/NY break. Maybe there's a admin/support contact on their webpage...will look later. Cheers 2B
frankn Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 @2Brix I just tried streaming via my phone. It defaulted to CD and there are higher resolutions available. I did notice you can set the resolution so perhaps you accidentally did that?? 1
2Brix Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 @frankn as soon as it defaulted to MP3 i tried selecting the higher resolution options from the pick-list, but it did not respond...it stayed as MP3. I wondered if it's due to me being on the free 1 month trial...but there was no advisory message (will recheck)....and seems odd that a couple of albums are doing that (for me) and yet dozens i've tried so far are perfectly fine. I'll update when (if) i find the reason/solution. 1
davm Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 Hmmm Something weird going on with this album, at least for me using the Qobuz app on my Mac Mini. I have the Studio subscription and access HD albums all the time. If I search by artist (Shpongle) and then list albums, I see the HD version of "Are You Shpongled" you see. Most of the tracks are shown as unavailble (greyed out). When I play the album, the app quickly skips through mp3 versions of the greyed out tracks, until it reaches "Divine Moments of Truth (Remastered)" which isn't greyed out and plays at 24 bit/44.1 kHz. However, if I search by album title, I can find a version of the album that doesn't have "Remastered" in the album title and is CD quality. This plays correctly. Go figure... 1
2Brix Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 thanks @davm Silly me..I hadn't paid attention to that, but now i see most of the tracks are greyed out on the "hi-res album" which is odd, and disappointing. Anyway good i find these things out in the trial period. Already noticed a couple of artists i really wanted who don't see to be on there (Ott, Bola) but quite a few that are.
frankn Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 Initially, I had some issues on a free trial which all went away once I subscribed. 1
aechmea Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 (edited) Please help. I was after a particular album, primarily a CD. I have been unable to find it for sale on eBay, Amazon, or Discogs. However it did show up via Google as being on Qobuz. I followed that link and saw that there was a 16/44 download available for sale. Price was in Euros. Today I decided to buy, but when I went to the Q website front page it asked whether I was in Ireland? Eh? If not, I was supposed to ring them. No chance me doing that. After a while of head scratching, I thought that there may have been an Aus site (as distinct from some option on the primary Q page where there is no region switch anywhere that I can see). I googled Q Aus and got a hit. My first page was .......ie-en.... and the Aus one is ...au-en..... How you are supposed to get to your regional download page by the normal front page is a mystery. Anyway, the particular album is not available for download via the Aus site but it is from my chance visit to the Irish web site. Do you reckon that I can buy and download from Ireland (or elsewhere for that matter) or am I asking for trouble? Maybe I just forget it. Edited January 6, 2023 by aechmea
awayward Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 28 minutes ago, aechmea said: Please help. I was after a particular album, primarily a CD. I have been unable to find it for sale on eBay, Amazon, or Discogs. However it did show up via Google as being on Qobuz. I followed that link and saw that there was a 16/44 download available for sale. Price was in Euros. Today I decided to buy, but when I went to the Q website front page it asked whether I was in Ireland? Eh? If not, I was supposed to ring them. No chance me doing that. After a while of head scratching, I thought that there may have been an Aus site (as distinct from some option on the primary Q page). There is no region switch anywhere (that I can see). I googled Q Aus and got a hit. My first page was .......ie-en.... and the Aus one is ...au-en..... How you are supposed to get to your regional download page by the normal front page is a mystery. Anyway, the particular album is not available for download via the Aus site but it is from my chance visit to the Irish web site. Do you reckon that I can buy and download from Ireland (or elsewhere for that matter) or am I asking for trouble? Maybe I just forget it. Do you have a Qobuz subscription? You need an active subscription/account to purchase a download.
aechmea Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 Thanks awayward. No account, but ... On the US and IE site there is a purchase button with price. If you press it, it then asks for you to set up an account or to log-on. On the AU and NZ sites it simply says "download is not available". ie you can't even get as far as it asking you for your account. I would be happy to start an account if I knew that I could then purchase and download. The regional barriers/licenses would seem to be the problem. This is the Aus site if that helps. https://www.qobuz.com/au-en/album/mortal-longing-sleepthief/wjpw3jptll3ya and the Irish one https://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/album/mortal-longing-sleepthief/wjpw3jptll3ya
awayward Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, aechmea said: Thanks awayward. No account, but ... On the US and IE site there is a purchase button with price. If you press it, it then asks for you to set up an account or to log-on. On the AU and NZ sites it simply says "download is not available". ie you can't even get as far as it asking you for your account. I would be happy to start an account if I knew that I could then purchase and download. The regional barriers/licenses would seem to be the problem. This is the Aus site if that helps. https://www.qobuz.com/au-en/album/mortal-longing-sleepthief/wjpw3jptll3ya and the Irish one https://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/album/mortal-longing-sleepthief/wjpw3jptll3ya I don’t have the download as part of my subscription, just the streaming, and this album is available for streaming, so I can’t confirm if this album will be available for download.
Dr.Funk Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 @aechmea Hi, I have a full subscription and I believe your issue is due to record label restrictions. I checked all 8 albums by your chosen artist, they are all issued by the same label, all are not available for download in Australia. I have come across this in a couple of jazz compilation albums where a track is by artiste A feat; artiste B, this individual track is greyed out; the rest of the album can be purchased and downloaded. I believe this is where artiste B is unhappy with the release on that particular compilation (think royalty issues), or the record label has some objection. Therefore the album maybe for sale within Europe, but has not been picked up by a label this side of the pond? An example of this in earlier times, 80's, was the Australian group Dead Can Dance, who hailed from Melbourne. When they first started they had an Aussie label, recorded tracks, but the label refused to release them. Years later Dead Can Dance went to the UK, got a new label, released all their music and never looked back. There is a modern version of this; an artiste, who's name escapes me, released 4 tracks on YouTube; each had near a billion views. He had enough material for an album, got a record label, but the label will not release the album until all 10 tracks get a billion views on YouTube first. And they wonder why record labels are a dying breed.
fjs Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 From what I understand streaming services can only stream what record labels give them and as dr. funk pointed out it’s all to do with licensing agreements in particular countries. There are many examples of this but one I’ve come across is the cd called xoxo by Jeon somi. The album has 8 tracks but if you search qobuz only 6 of the tracks are on the album version with the other two tracks marked ‘sample only’. The cd is released by black label - interscape records and streamed at 24/48. If you keep searching that artist you come across the other two tracks released by black label (not interscape records) and streams at 16/44.1. The forum member who had trouble buying a download I wonder if they used a vpn from Ireland if they could then download the cd.
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