Qobuz Discussion Thread

[mharvan]

  On 23/03/2024 at 10:11 PM, 08Boss302 said:

Anyone else experiencing a glitch about 30-50sec on each track since the maintenance? Just a small glitch like a scratch on a record.

When using my phone app and via Bluetooth the past week this has happened.

 

I cleared cache, uninstalled and reinstalled app but no change. Doesn't occur when using desktop though.

 

Weird and annoying and has only happened since the maintenance they did the other week 

Hoping it's a just bug fix they'll rectify soon.

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yes I get the occasional drop outs / stalls / hiccups when listening to Qobuz. happens at random intervals so I have no idea what is going on - it's a bit annoying

[mharvan]

I currently use a WIIM mini for streaming through a vintage analog stereo. I know there are limitations to it I don't believe it handles Qobuz top high res bit rate very well. I'm looking for recommendations for a better wireless DAC for streaming, but I don't want to spend crazy money. Cambridge audio DACmagic  200 is in the right price range but I'm still shopping and would like some advice here. Analog I understand digital platforms I'm not well versed.

[Neo]

  On 24/03/2024 at 3:29 PM, mharvan said:

I currently use a WIIM mini for streaming through a vintage analog stereo. I know there are limitations to it I don't believe it handles Qobuz top high res bit rate very well. I'm looking for recommendations for a better wireless DAC for streaming, but I don't want to spend crazy money. Cambridge audio DACmagic  200 is in the right price range but I'm still shopping and would like some advice here. Analog I understand digital platforms I'm not well versed.

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Would be looking at a better streamer than what you have, rather than trying to upgrade it with additional dac. That’s where your limitation is. Have a think of your budget, sell the wiim mini and add the funds to the new all in one streamer. 
Neo

[mharvan]

  On 24/03/2024 at 8:45 PM, Neo said:

Would be looking at a better streamer than what you have, rather than trying to upgrade it with additional dac. That’s where your limitation is. Have a think of your budget, sell the wiim mini and add the funds to the new all in one streamer. 
Neo

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and any suggestions for a better streamer?

 

[Neo]

  On 24/03/2024 at 11:30 PM, mharvan said:

and any suggestions for a better streamer?

 

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What’s your budget before any recommendation can be had. 
Neo

[mharvan]

  On 24/03/2024 at 11:36 PM, Neo said:

What’s your budget before any recommendation can be had. 
Neo

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stay under $700 us?

Edited March 25, 2024 by mharvan

[Neo]

You have plenty of options in that price range so visit your local hifi store and do have a listen for yourself. 
What those option are will depend on what you would like base on audition and the retailer will be able to advise you on price options in your budget. 
Neo

[Dr.Funk]

  On 25/03/2024 at 12:53 AM, mharvan said:

stay under $700 us?

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Hi Meredith,

What's the cost of an EverSolo A6 in sunny California?

Would you consider a 2nd hand unit?

Very current model, all in one unit that really punches above its weight. Very good intuitive display layout.

With the option later of adding a hi-end DAC if you so wish.

Cheers

Andy

[mharvan]

  On 25/03/2024 at 1:01 AM, Dr.Funk said:

Hi Meredith,

What's the cost of an EverSolo A6 in sunny California?

Would you consider a 2nd hand unit?

Very current model, all in one unit that really punches above its weight. Very good intuitive display layout.

With the option later of adding a hi-end DAC if you so wish.

Cheers

Andy

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$860 on Amazon  could work,  it's bit outside  I'll have to compare it to Cambridge Audio mxn10 $499 on Crutchfield or amazon. Thanks for the suggestion

[Mr_Gadget]

Hello, I'm new to this thread and thought I'd try some higher quality streaming (I'm a Spotify user).

I'm still in my free trial stage of Qobuz and although I don't actually have any gear to make full use of the higher quality sound I can hear a difference in my car where I've been testing it the most.

 

Now, the one main gripe I have is the delay/buffering between tracks. Is this an Android Auto issue or something else?

 

Also, if I decide to purchase a new streamer for home use (my Yamaha WXA-50 does not support Qoboz), does this buffering persist?

 

Thanks.

[fjs]

  On 28/03/2024 at 10:26 PM, Mr_Gadget said:

Hello, I'm new to this thread and thought I'd try some higher quality streaming (I'm a Spotify user).

I'm still in my free trial stage of Qobuz and although I don't actually have any gear to make full use of the higher quality sound I can hear a difference in my car where I've been testing it the most.

 

Now, the one main gripe I have is the delay/buffering between tracks. Is this an Android Auto issue or something else?

 

Also, if I decide to purchase a new streamer for home use (my Yamaha WXA-50 does not support Qoboz), does this buffering persist?

 

Thanks.

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Hi, just to comment on a few points you raise. The buffering is almost certainly your incar system. My guess is that your download speed is not fast enough for hires streaming. You will get better streaming if you create a playlist and then download your playlist to your phone for off line streaming which should stop the buffering from live streaming. Without knowing what your home system is I would firstly look at the Wiim pro. It is cheap, very functional and has a very good UI. The Yamaha wxa 50 supports Bluetooth so I think you can stream qobuz from the android phone app and using Bluetooth to the wxa50 so give that a try. Lastly, a lot has been discussed on the benefits of hires streaming and you can see many of the discussion points raised in the qobuz club site. I recently read a discussion paper on hires streaming and blind tests were carried out to see if people could hear the difference between hires and lowres. The result was that 95% of the participants could not tell any repeatable difference between hires stream and music streamed at 320kbs mp3. Of course if you have a very expensive system you will probably hear a difference be it is very slight. Just for you reference, I stream qobuz hires and deezer cd quality as well as I have many songs copied at mp3 and I really can’t hear any difference on most tracks although on some tracks I can hear a slightly improved presentation on hires. Hires is classified as anything above cd quality so something streamed at 24/44.1 is hires

[08Boss302]

If streaming to your car etc via mobile network maybe ensure you're not using mobile network for 24/192 that could cause buffering potentially, change it to 16/44

I don't have any buffering issues at home using desktop app or via my streamer (bluesound node).

 

Since the Qobuz update every song has a small glitch at the start of it which wasn't there before the updates, but I also now notice I'm on a beta version so maybe that's why...

Qobuz are testing android for tv features.

 

 

[Godot]

  On 28/03/2024 at 10:26 PM, Mr_Gadget said:

Hello, I'm new to this thread and thought I'd try some higher quality streaming (I'm a Spotify user).

I'm still in my free trial stage of Qobuz and although I don't actually have any gear to make full use of the higher quality sound I can hear a difference in my car where I've been testing it the most.

 

Now, the one main gripe I have is the delay/buffering between tracks. Is this an Android Auto issue or something else?

 

Also, if I decide to purchase a new streamer for home use (my Yamaha WXA-50 does not support Qoboz), does this buffering persist?

 

Thanks.

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I use Qobuz at home, no buffering issues at all. I mainly use Squeeze and Roon with Qobuz, through a good server/player , with no problems. But I have had Qobuz skip tracks using mcontrolHD app straight through a streamer. I’ve never used it in a car, so can’t help there, sorry. 

[fjs]

08boss makes a good point in suggesting you adjust your streaming quality. I know with deezer I can set the streaming quality to 320kbps and really, for incar use you will not hear a difference given the hostile acoustic environment in a car.

[Mr_Gadget]

Thanks for the suggestions. I currently have my settings for mobile network on CD  - 16/44. My mobile plan is 4G and I'm not considering moving up to top tier plans that have 5G.

 

I will try creating a playlist for offline listening and see if that eliminates the buffering and/or reducing to 320. I'd rather not do the latter because it goes against my reason for trying Qobuz in the first place and I grew up with the transition of tape to CD in the car so I'd prefer not to dip below this.

 

Also, regarding my WXA-50. I have tried it with Bluetooth and it works. The player is in my office where it is mainly for background music so I'm not concerned about the reduced quality here.

Edited March 28, 2024 by Mr_Gadget

[Mr_Gadget]

  On 28/03/2024 at 10:57 PM, fjs said:

Wiim pro. It is cheap

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Interesting, if I go down this route of buying a streamer box I'd rather lower my box count so potentially removing my existing pre-amp with an all in one pre-amp streamer/dac.

A lot more cost involved no doubt .

[Kirby66]

  On 28/03/2024 at 10:26 PM, Mr_Gadget said:

Hello, I'm new to this thread and thought I'd try some higher quality streaming (I'm a Spotify user).

I'm still in my free trial stage of Qobuz and although I don't actually have any gear to make full use of the higher quality sound I can hear a difference in my car where I've been testing it the most.

 

Now, the one main gripe I have is the delay/buffering between tracks. Is this an Android Auto issue or something else?

 

Also, if I decide to purchase a new streamer for home use (my Yamaha WXA-50 does not support Qoboz), does this buffering persist?

 

Thanks.

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Some really good comments from others above ... I use Qobuz as my streaming source at home on my 2CH system which is all hardwired from when it gets to the property via wireless NBN, at home from my phone to BT headphones and also in the car from my phone via CarPlay. I can't recall having any buffering / delay problems at home in either set up. Occasionally some delays in the car but they are almost always due to poor network coverage. I've found, having tried several streaming platforms, that Qobuz generally has the best SQ when comparing the same track at the same resolution from different services.

 

However it's worth noting that a 'hi-res' files doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to sound terrific. More important is the quality of the original recording and any reproduction or remastering that has been done to it - a hi-res file of a rubbish recording will sound like ... rubbish. A great 16/44 recording will probably sound better than a poorly recorded hi-res file.

 

The other thing to note is that in most instances system synergy, whatever the system is, will have a greater impact on the SQ than any individual component. any single lesser quality component in a system will hold back the rest of the system to a greater or lesser degree dependant upon where it is in the system. Downloading tracks, albums or playlists to your phone should definitely fix the delay / buffering issues ... and if you can hear a worthwhile improvement in the car where you've done most of your testing then that should make you happy. Qobuz in my car sounds way better than I thought it would or should !!! In the car it's WiFi to a phone - DAC in phone - BT to a bog standard infotainment system so expectations are fairly low and get it sounds way better than it really has any right to.

[Mr_Gadget]

Is downloading the Import function in Qobuz?

Nevermind just tried it and yes 

 

Also, did some more testing using wifi at home and I still get the delay. 

If I download/import the track then it plays back much faster as expected.

 

Even lowering the wifi audio down to MP3 caused the delay so maybe it's just my phone (Pixel 7a) that has issues with Qobuz streaming?

 

I don't have any dedicated devices at home to test this on so at the moment the common denominator is my phone and/or the Qobuz app itself .

Edited March 29, 2024 by Mr_Gadget

[Godot]

  On 29/03/2024 at 2:40 AM, Mr_Gadget said:

don't have any dedicated devices at home to test this on so at the moment the common denominator is my phone and/or the Qobuz app itself

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Have you got a PC or Mac and a DAC (or amp with DAC onboard) that can be connected by usb.. I’m not suggesting this as a permanent setup, unless you deal with the noise from the computer, but you could try Qobuz on the computer rather than your phone to isolate the issue. 

[Mr_Gadget]

My Yamaha WXA-50 has USB and I have a laptop. Might try it. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Mr_Gadget]

Well, I couldn't get USB audio to work for some reason but I just hooked up USB headphones to laptop and there is still the delay when changing tracks.

 

Spotify is pretty much instantaneous. Interestingly, I have Tidal on trial and it is pretty much the same speed as Spotify. However, when using Tidal in Android Auto I could not get it to show my track list so I was hoping to go down the Qobuz route. I also think Qobuz sounds better .

[fjs]

I never had the problem but there may be a setting that you have on by default that puts a 2sec gap between tracks. Maybe someone knows if there is such a setting in qobuz.

[Grizaudio]

  On 14/03/2024 at 6:52 AM, Dr.Funk said:

@doogie44 @wklie

I too have the Deco M5 system and it was more than likely, not the Deco at fault. I am no internet/mesh guru but I took a practical approach to known issues before committing myself.

I am sure someone here, more knowledgeable than I, will say I am doing this wrong, but the fact I have no internet/WiFi issues speaks volumes.

 

As Peter says, Lumin does not include WiFi into their components because it is fraught with issues. One of the biggest issues is the home itself, its layout and construction materials.

So my WiFi Mesh layout is this.

My Aussie Broadband, basic router sits on my desk, WiFi component switched off. One of the Ethernet cables is connected directly to the first Deco M5 in my office at the far west of my home. (3 unit package, only 2 used). Laptops, phones (friends devices) etc all access the WiFi throughout the house and most of the garden (160sqm floor plan and 2,020sqm block).

 

I ran an Ethernet cable from my router, 45m to my lounge, where I installed a 6-way gigabyte switch. To this switch I installed the TV, Lumin A1 (on a 10m CAT6 cable), all the surround sound components and the second Deco M5 (to cast the WiFi mesh to the east side of the house). This way the second Deco M5 is connected directly via Ethernet to the router, so the mesh signal is as strong on the east side of the house as on the west side where the router is. 

 

I live in the hills of Perth and we only have copper to the node.

 

I have never, ever had a Qobuz drop out on my Ethernet fed Lumin, being controlled by my WiFi tablet.

TP-Link send out updates to their Deco's almost monthly as well as a report on any vulnerabilities blocked by their firewall. I have looked back on these reports and noted that when one of my friends visits, his phone, using my system, is blocked at least 200 times from spam and hackers. Imagine if that is going on, within your household WiFi realm and you are trying to stream pure signals through the ether to your music stream via Qobuz. In my opinion you are asking too much from your mesh. As you stated "the consensus from 2 separate lengthy visits from Internet network gurus at home, assured me that my previous system was more than adequate for purpose", it was, you were just stretching its purpose. The new units just have more powerful signal boosters and antennas.

 

Now if someone could tell me how to get internet/WiFi up to my workshop, 30m from my home, constructed of steel (basically a Faraday Cage), I could enjoy Qobuz on my EverSolo.

Until then, no Qobuz and music on a 2TB hard drive. I cannot run an Ethernet cable as it is solid rock, the steel workshop stops any WiFi signal, even though my current two Deco M5's throw the signal right to the shed door. I have tried putting the third M5 just inside the door and it instantly dies, as does phone reception! First world problems.

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My understanding on this topic is the best mesh solutions typically have dedicated 5ghz backhauls, removing the mesh burden/connectivity from the main radio channels.

I.e. Orbi, Asus, etc all have dedicated 5ghz backhaul channels. I think Google uses a 6ghz backhaul... 

This strategy helps maintain master to mesh AP speed throughput. 

 

But......proximity between mesh AP's is going to be very important.

 

In the real world, I get zero speed loss between my master Orbi AP and mesh AP's. 

 

For music, and audio protocols like RAAT etc, my understanding is duplex connectivity matters. 

By design WiFi is half duplex, meaning Wifi can't send and receive information concurrently.

This is because WiFi shares a Tx/Rx radio channel. 

 

Some mesh systems will actually support copper/wired ethernet backhaul to combat this. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2024 by Grizaudio

[mharvan]

  On 24/03/2024 at 8:45 PM, Neo said:

Would be looking at a better streamer than what you have, rather than trying to upgrade it with additional dac. That’s where your limitation is. Have a think of your budget, sell the wiim mini and add the funds to the new all in one streamer. 
Neo

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Still on the cheap side of things but I did upgrade to a WIIM pro ($149 on crutchfield) into a Schiit Modi DAC which I already owned. I had second thoughts on the purchase as the specs say it uses the same chip set as the mini and thought I'd return it for the pro-plus ($220), but I found the the Wiim pro will output at 24b/196k through the optical to the Schiit which is what I was looking for. so I'm placated for now but will likely eventually upgrade to the eversolo  as Dr.Funk suggested, or Cambridge audio systems.... eventually... maybe after tax season, ugh. 

Edited March 30, 2024 by mharvan

[thimmy118]

I hope my experience will help some Qobuz subscribers who are experiencing drop-out over wifi with their streamer.

 

I bought a Volumio Rivo streamer recently, which has been connecting to Qobuz without any problem from day one. Suddenly after two weeks of streaming, I started to experience frequent drop outs and skipping. At that time I was running an ethernet cable to a TP Link wifi range extender. Its 5Ghz connection was only average but the 2.4Ghz was working fine. I corresponded with the Volumio distributor in Australia, Volumio HQ in Italy and Qobuz via email and all their solutions were not able to resolve the problem. It went back to the retailer who had no problem connecting to Qobuz on their accounts. Well after 2 weeks, the unit was shipped back to me unchanged. I am now able to connect to Qobuz and the drop-outs and track skipping have disappear. I think the following three factors may have contributed to the turnaround in performance. These all happened when the unit was with the retailer for 'repair':

 

1. Telstra updated the software to their Netgear V7610 router.

2. I installed a TP Link Mesh system (Deco X68). These units have a dedicated 5Ghz backhaul channel between the satellite and the main unit. Definitely much better and more reliable than a wifi range extender.

3. I was informed that maintenance was done on the Qobuz server.

 

In the new wifi mesh set-up, the streamer is connected to the satellite unit via ethernet cable and the satellite unit is connected to the main unit via wifi. Both units have been configured as wifi access points and are only broadcasting 5Ghz. I use my Telstra router to broadcast the 2.4Ghz for equipment that do not have a 5Ghz wifi band. I am on Telstra NBN 50Mbps business plan, which is plenty for our needs.