March Audio Owners & Discussion Thread

[andyr]

1 hour ago, The Mad Scientist said:

Goosebumps don't lie.

 

Absolooootely, Graeme!  

 

If you get the goosebumps ... you don't need any measurements to tell you how good it is!

 

[March Audio]

2 hours ago, The Mad Scientist said:

I'm not an "Equipment Measurebator" (© Ken Rockwell), but the more I improve the measured performance of my system/room, the better it sounds.

 

Indeed, same here.  There is a misconception amongst some that good measured performance and good sound is somehow mutually exclusive, or that there is no correlation between the two.  Quite the opposite is true.

 

When this sort if narrative pops up I just ask if someone can point out a piece of kit that measures well and sounds bad.  Never had one single reply.

Edited September 14, 2023 by March Audio

[davewantsmoore]

5 minutes ago, March Audio said:

There is a misconception amongst some that good measured performance and good sound is somehow mutually exclusive.

 

Seems crazy when you think about it.

 

..... but I can understand how the skepticism is warranted... as too many people (manufacturers and regular-joes alike) claimed "great measurement performance", and the claim was  some blend of BS and irrelevant... and so "good measurements" never lived up to the hype at best, or just sounded bad at worst.

 

11 minutes ago, March Audio said:

someone can point out a piece of kit that measures well and sounds bad

 

Exactly.

Either they can't.

... or they can, and then the "well it doesn't actually measure good in any relevant way" card can be played.

 

Most "normal" people just eat up what they're "told"... and to a big degree it's hard to fault them for that.... it's the people that gave them that "bad idea", who deserve to be tarred and feathered. 

[davewantsmoore]

37 minutes ago, andyr said:

If you get the goosebumps ... you don't need any measurements to tell you how good it is!

When people are happy, I try pretty hard not to tell them "don't be happy".

 

.... but measurements can tell you how to make your system sound even better (even more "goosebumps"), and I'm sure everyone would be interested in that.

 

"There's nothing wrong with my audio system because I like the sound of it" .... can for sure be someones ultimate-truth, but it can also be a very very limiting belief on a number of levels.

[cazzesman]

45 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Absolooootely, Graeme!  

 

If you get the goosebumps ... you don't need any measurements to tell you how good it is!

 

 

Or..............................if the measurements are terrible.....................are you any chance of getting goose bumps?

 

As a consumer...................I'm just happy to have the vast number of choices.

 

Even the 10 (?) companies making D class with the Purifi hardware, have a slightly different take on their own homemade 'stew'.

 

Choice is good.  It makes for innovation and competition for our $$$$.     Above all, us average Joe's just want gear that performs well and is affordable.     

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

  

 

 

[rand129678]

Any plans @March Audio for more affordable amps, like Infineon MA5332MS based?

 

To complement your top tier Purifi amps

[March Audio]

20 minutes ago, rand129678 said:

Any plans @March Audio for more affordable amps, like Infineon MA5332MS based?

 

To complement your top tier Purifi amps

 

Sorry, not at the moment.  After the specialist super low noise and distortion amp for high sensitivity horn speakers, the next project will be an integrated amp.

[andyr]

On 14/09/2023 at 9:39 AM, cazzesman said:

As a consumer...................I'm just happy to have the vast number of choices.

 

As am I.  

 

On 14/09/2023 at 9:39 AM, cazzesman said:

Or..............................if the measurements are terrible.....................have you any chance of getting goose bumps?

 

Well, that would depend on what you define as terrible measurements!  

 

I've had this discussion with Alan March before; he considers the level of distortion offered by Audio Research (tube) power amps as terrible!  Of course ... they are - compared to his Purify amps.  But I get goosebumps from listening to the AR amps ... and I don't with his amps.  (And, yes, I've listened to a direct comparison - ie. in the same system ... the only difference is the power amps used.)

 

[POV]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

As am I.  

 

 

Well, that would depend on what you define as terrible measurements!  

 

I've had this discussion with Alan March before; he considers the level of distortion offered by Audio Research (tube) power amps as terrible!  Of course ... they are - compared to his Purify amps.  But I get goosebumps from listening to the AR amps ... and I don't with his amps.  (And, yes, I've listened to a direct comparison - ie. in the same system ... the only difference is the power amps used.)

 

 

But of course!  When you have a pre-disposition against a particular product it only stands to reason that you are unlikely to enjoy it.  Your brain won't let you!

[March Audio]

20 hours ago, andyr said:

 

As am I.  

 

 

Well, that would depend on what you define as terrible measurements!  

 

I've had this discussion with Alan March before; he considers the level of distortion offered by Audio Research (tube) power amps as terrible!  Of course ... they are - compared to his Purify amps.  But I get goosebumps from listening to the AR amps ... and I don't with his amps.  (And, yes, I've listened to a direct comparison - ie. in the same system ... the only difference is the power amps used.)

 

 

Actually Andy I think you are misrepresenting me yet again.

 

I don't recall ever saying that I consider the distortion of AR amps as being "terrible".  However if you can show me where I said that.........

 

What I have said about tube amps is that due to their inherently high output impedance they suffer from load related frequency response deviations.  This will give them a "sound". Just look at any Stereophile test of any tube amp and you see how significant this can be.

 

They have variable tonality which is dependant upon the particular speaker load.  If you like this colouration then that's absolutely fine. 

 

I have never said this is bad or wrong, it's just an explanation as to why tube amps sound different to solid state amps.  Solid state have very low output impedance which solves this problem.

 

Measurements inform us of the difference and reasons for what you experience.  There is no magic going on here, or anything that can't be replicated with a graphic equaliser!

 

 

Fig.2 Audio Research Reference 75, 8 ohm tap, frequency response at 2.83V into: simulated loudspeaker load (gray), 8 ohms (left channel blue, right red), 4 ohms (left cyan, right magenta), 2 ohms (green) (1dB/vertical div.).

 

Above you can see that this particular amps frequency response varies 2.6dB with a variation of 6 ohms in speaker load impedance.

 

It should also be noted that if you have a speaker with a response that suits this sort of significant colouration, it may well not suit a more neutral sounding amp. 

 

There is no magic going on here. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by March Audio

[cazzesman]

Andy,

 

This is basically a discussion that is a waste of time having.    We can all enjoy what we enjoy and leave it at that.     If one of us starts saying the other is WRONG, then that makes us both look/sound silly.     Happiness is in the ear of the listener.   

 

If someone on SNA loves the sound of a 1980's Sherwood 3 in 1, then good on them.  

 

Enjoy what you enjoy and hopefully guys like Alan will do what they do because they love it, and they can make a living doing what they love.    Without guys like Alan and Bruno, we are all missing out on opportunities to inspire our senses.

 

Regards Cazzesman  

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by cazzesman

[VSSupa]

Hey @cazzesman,

 

Just adding to my experience, when it comes to listening to the Ukkonen’s for yours and others curiosity.

I sold the Vincent recently as I committed to getting a set of mono’s from Alan next weekend at the Melbourne Hi-Fi Show. Therefore I pulled my Luxman L-30 out of the cupboard, just to see how the combination would sound.

 

So adding to my small list of combinations:

- Tidal streamed on the NADC658 --> Luxman L-30

 

And well… I think Ukkonen’s are really quite amazing. I’d even go to say that combined with the little Luxman, the soundstage is slightly bigger and the imaging is more focused than the Vincent combo.
Saying that, my experience with the P422 is still a lot better, which makes me look forward to next week when getting the mono’s. But as I sit here listening/ typing it is still quite impressive.
 
I did recap and gave the pots in the Luxman a really thorough clean in 2016 (I am a mild tinkerer, that the majority of times I sit in the valley of despair on the Dunning-Kruger Effect model, so I try avoid tinkering to destruction) which noticeably made it a lot quieter and improved my perceived performance of it.
But once letting it drive the Ukkonen’s, its proven to me that for a 47 year old amp it is pretty darn good and that Alan has made a seriously stellar pair of speakers.

 

I hope your experience listening to the Ukkonen's at the Melbourne show is as positive as I’ve had with them.

 

Cheers!

Edited October 14, 2023 by VSSupa
swapped give to gave... yep, fussy

[cazzesman]

Thanks @VSSupa

 

My plan is to wander into the Show early arvo on Friday.   Hopefully Alan won't be too jaded at that stage and his equipment will have had a few hours to warm up.   

 

Appreciate the update.    Happy listening.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

[cazzesman]

@March Audio

 

Alan what are you going to use as the source next week?   Are you planning on unveiling the MA Dac?

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

[March Audio]

5 minutes ago, cazzesman said:

@March Audio

 

Alan what are you going to use as the source next week?   Are you planning on unveiling the MA Dac?

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

 

Our usual simple set up.

 

Topping D90SE directly driving P501 monoblocks.  Ukkonen and Sointuva speakers on rotation.

 

Roon on a small NUC.  Our own cables, but may also have something interesting in cables

 

DAC is a long way off

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by March Audio

[cazzesman]

Perfecto,

 

I must admit is always abit frustrating at these shows when a $10,000 speaker is driven by a $25,000 source and 

$15,000 Dac or similar.    If the MA speakers sound good with the simple stuff, that is $ friendly, then it is a win/win for everyone.   

 

Regards Cazzesman

[VSSupa]

19 hours ago, cazzesman said:

If the MA speakers sound good with the simple stuff, that is $ friendly, then it is a win/win for everyone. 

 

Exactly, that's a very good point.

I certainly know that if I were not in a position to purchase the MA amps & MA speakers; after listening to this current combination it has clearly given me the perspective that I'd go the Ukkonen's (or Sointuva's if I were space limited) and wait until I could afford the jump up in amp - which, upon reflection whilst typing this I essentially did...

[cazzesman]

@VSSupa

 

I went to the HiFi show today.

 

Got there about 1200 and left at 1600.     I really only went to try out some headphones and to hear the March Audio amps and speakers.      The baby stand mount SOINTUVA sounded very good, but I was there for the Ukkonen

 

The Ukkonen sounded brilliant.    As promised, Alan was using a NUC attached to a Topping D90DAC/Pre (??).  The pre went  into the P501 monoblocks, so nothing flash or big $ as the Streaming source.     

 

Like Alan I am a Bruno Putseys fan boy.     Not much could convince me to sell my Kii 3's, but at over 3 times the price of the Ukkonen, there is a fair bit more inside the Kii 3's.    

 

For a package price of around $15,000, the Ukkonen, with a pair of P501 Monoblocks is a no brainer.   The sound was clean, deep, non-fatiguing and effortless.    Subs not required.    The Ukkonen made plenty of the other speakers on show sound very average.   

 

Kudos to March Audio for producing top notch products, that wonderfully compliment the components designed by Bruno.  

 

Nice to meet Alan and his Wife (?) today.  Lovely folk and I wish them all the best with their endeavors.   

 

As for the others..........................

 

The rest of the show really held little interest for me as my system is fairly set in stone.      Nothing else would make me sell my Kii3's and I am very happy with my current set up.   

 

NAD did have the excellent M66 (around $9,000) Pre/streamer/dac/dirac live/roon etc, etc into 2 x M23 Amps driving the $80,000 DALI EPIKORE 11 Floor standing Speakers.    That sounded awesome.   But for an all around $100,000, it probably should have.

 

It is probably overkill, but if you Matched the Nad M66 with March Audio's Ukkonen and a pair of P501's, Woo-hoo, that would rock.     That is one stop shopping right their folks.      

 

The turn out for a Friday seemed to be good so hopefully the weekend goes well for Marc.    

 

Regards Cazzesman

Edited October 20, 2023 by cazzesman

[Pigpen]

I visited March Audio as well, having a brief chat with Alan re the next iteration of power amps based on the new Purifi modules.

 

The Ukkonen’s were given a listen as well - very impressed, particularly given the limitations of the room - the colour mesmerised me as well - need to talk to wife about the upgrades to my 421 mono’s……..

[andyr]

2 hours ago, cazzesman said:

For a package price of around $15,000, the Ukkonen, with a pair of P501 Monoblocks is a no brainer.   The sound was clean, deep, non-fatiguing and effortless.    Subs not required.

 

Were you listening to Bach's "Toccata & Fugue" ... or most 'Yello' tracks?

 

[cazzesman]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

Were you listening to Bach's "Toccata & Fugue" ... or most 'Yello' tracks?

 

perhaps you would be better off with the Klipsch speakers  on show with the twin 15” subs and the horn tweeter.    
 

I was told it peaks out at 145db driven by the McIntosh Valve amp.  
 

Regards Cazzesman

[March Audio]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

Were you listening to Bach's "Toccata & Fugue" ... or most 'Yello' tracks?

 

You have a very narrow presumptious view of our musical tastes. 

 

We have 150+ tracks in the play list which is of quite eclectic variation.  We are frequently playing requests from visitors to our room.

 

I will publish the list tomorrow for you to peruse.  You might find some enjoyable new music in there. 

 

One of the tracks visitors found most impressive was by Patricia Petibon.  Look her up if you are not familiar.

 

Visitors have certainly made me aware of some great music that's new to me.

 

Thanks to all the visitors today, fantastic meeting and speaking to you all and for the very positive feedback to our products and sound.

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by March Audio

[March Audio]

Regarding the room is does have some significant modes at 31, 62 and 85Hz, so it's a bit of a challenge.  We have a degree of acoustic treatments but there is only so much they can do.  The Ukkonen speakers are shaking several shades if sh*** out of it.

 

Off to Bunnings first thing tomorrow before the show opens to get some paving slabs so we can use isolation feet.  Still won't overcome the fundamental room modes but will help a bit and be less intrusive to whoever is displaying in the rooms adjacent and below.

Edited October 20, 2023 by March Audio

[VSSupa]

11 hours ago, cazzesman said:

I went to the HiFi show today.

 

Got there about 1200 and left at 1600.     I really only went to try out some headphones and to hear the March Audio amps and speakers.      The baby stand mount SOINTUVA sounded very good, but I was there for the Ukkonen

 

The Ukkonen sounded brilliant.    As promised, Alan was using a NUC attached to a Topping D90DAC/Pre (??).  The pre went  into the P501 monoblocks, so nothing flash or big $ as the Streaming source.     

 

Like Alan I am a Bruno Putseys fan boy.     Not much could convince me to sell my Kii 3's, but at over 3 times the price of the Ukkonen, there is a fair bit more inside the Kii 3's.    

 

For a package price of around $15,000, the Ukkonen, with a pair of P501 Monoblocks is a no brainer.   The sound was clean, deep, non-fatiguing and effortless.    Subs not required.    The Ukkonen made plenty of the other speakers on show sound very average.   

 

Kudos to March Audio for producing top notch products, that wonderfully compliment the components designed by Bruno.  

 

Nice to meet Alan and his Wife (?) today.  Lovely folk and I wish them all the best with their endeavors.   

 

As for the others..........................

 

The rest of the show really held little interest for me as my system is fairly set in stone.      Nothing else would make me sell my Kii3's and I am very happy with my current set up.   

 

NAD did have the excellent M66 (around $9,000) Pre/streamer/dac/dirac live/roon etc, etc into 2 x M23 Amps driving the $80,000 DALI EPIKORE 11 Floor standing Speakers.    That sounded awesome.   But for an all around $100,000, it probably should have.

 

It is probably overkill, but if you Matched the Nad M66 with March Audio's Ukkonen and a pair of P501's, Woo-hoo, that would rock.     That is one stop shopping right their folks.      

 

The turn out for a Friday seemed to be good so hopefully the weekend goes well for Marc.    

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

Thanks for your thoughts @cazzesman, I'm glad you had a good experience with the Ukkonen also (I agree - subs not required).

 

I have never had the opportunity to listen to the Kii3's, but have read about them and can only imagine that they are quite incredible to hear, considering my appreciation of the subjective/objective audio world.

 

That NAD M66 looks good and I look forward to hearing that setup (crazy money, well for me). 

I'm a bit of a fan of NAD, so hopefully seeing the M66 in person doesn't turn into me selling more of my stuff and trying to get more hours of work in an attempt to fund one haha. But I agree it'd probably be a pretty sweet combination. 

 

Cheers !

[andyr]

8 hours ago, March Audio said:

You have a very narrow presumptious view of our musical tastes. 

 

I wasn't making any presumptions about musical taste, Alan - simply querying cazzeman's statement that subs weren't necessary with your Ukkonens.

 

Which I'm sure sound great, btw.

 

8 hours ago, March Audio said:

I will publish the list tomorrow for you to peruse.  You might find some enjoyable new music in there. 

 

I may well.  But my 'go to' music, when I find ABC Classic playing some boring modern music - which they seem to do often these days - is Bach Vivaldi, Biber et al, on my hard disks.

 

8 hours ago, March Audio said:

One of the tracks visitors found most impressive was by Patricia Petibon.  Look her up if you are not familiar.

 

I am well aware of the lovely M'selle Petibon, Alan.  She's not one I associate with requiring subs though!