oztheatre Posted April 29, 2021 Posted April 29, 2021 This Dogecoin, does nothing, serves no purpose, it's a meme con. Has a bigger market cap than the entire Mitsubishi corporation! Elon Musk has been 'tweeting' about it and of course what Elon says the herd does.. mostly... Last month it went up 1600% in less than 24hrs. unreal. woulda coulda shoulda hindsight. It cannot be worth that much. but it is right now. Defi is here to stay no doubt. There are some great platforms out there, one or a few will win out. But what a bubble. Then again people are seemingly drifting towards highly volatile markets like this where you can make or lose 50, 90, 200% in 24hrs, 2 weeks etc.. Safe to say people are happy to take high risks over managed funds and woeful bank interest. It's gone from something like 700 billion a few months ago to 2 trillion plus today. When it comes down, it's going to come down hard. Each time btc crashed it went down 90+%,, but went back up again over time... Panic sellers being manipulated by the 1% whales. But over all bitcoin has paid 225% per year for each year since 2011.. It's the best investment out there. not that im recommending it. But I know folks who have retired pulling out 7 figures, they held btc and other ones for years. You have to give it time to mature, or gamble on these shitcoins which can make or break you. A mate on here lost 10,000 btc in 2012 when they were worth nothing. worth 3/4 billion today. wow. There are videos out there of people paying others to sift thru rubbish dumps looking for hard drives lost and stuff like that. I don't blame them, if you could find that drive and get your keys back, you get your btc back. 20+% of btc has gone missing over time. most when it was worth nothing at all. $1. One that stuck out to me is called RADIX, a horizontally laid architecture that has unlimited scalability and solves atomic composability at the same time. They claim to have solved the trillema. I think it's something like twice as fast as whatsapp, 65 times faster than visa, 500 times faster than bitcoin. World records for tps at 1.4m so pretty impressive. The coder Dan Hughes showed atomic composability for the first time on his twitter feed.. so rather impressive.. But I think their token distribution over time subdues the price. I don't have any, not shilling anything. But it's a platform and it's not blockchain, some say it's DAG, others say no it's not. I don't know myself. But it's interesting. Their claims are - the whole world, all at once, running x or y app, and the thing doesn't even break a sweat. The harder it's pushed the faster it goes. might be the death of blockchain. Progress will always see these changes but coins like dogecoin and others will be there for gamblers always. Where this goes from here. 5 trillion? 10, 20 trillion market cap? Will it be the new digital gold as some are calling the old girl Bitcoin. I'd hate to say where it goes, but it doesn't seem like it's ever going away. Do banks just up their game and compete? or do they just join in and use it also? The whole Satoshi vision of it being used as a currency has failed mostly, instead it's been turned into a huge casino for gamblers. It's a little silly now, 7000 coins, rug pulls and all sorts of FUD drives this market. Every coin has a 'new deal' happening each week. It's nothing more than a popularity contest right now. 1 1
oztheatre Posted May 14, 2021 Author Posted May 14, 2021 Elon makes a tweet that Tesla will no longer be accepting btc as a payment option. removes 250 billion in less than 24hrs off the market. Previously dogecoin hits 90 billion then retraces fast. When something depends on computers and electricity to exist.. it isn't too real is it. a bit like a virtual particle 1
bob_m_54 Posted May 14, 2021 Posted May 14, 2021 What about Non-fungible tokens (NFT) art? It seems just crazy to me. Non-Fungible Tokens Maybe David Thorne was onto something, with his spider.. 1
oztheatre Posted May 14, 2021 Author Posted May 14, 2021 3 hours ago, bob_m_54 said: What about Non-fungible tokens (NFT) art? It seems just crazy to me. Non-Fungible Tokens Maybe David Thorne was onto something, with his spider.. It's about being the original owner of the art. moving art, some cool ideas. one sold for over 80 million. then you can just make a copy of it.
bob_m_54 Posted May 14, 2021 Posted May 14, 2021 3 hours ago, oztheatre said: It's about being the original owner of the art. moving art, some cool ideas. one sold for over 80 million. then you can just make a copy of it. But the art is merely a token. The NFT is the certificate of ownership of the file. So if the art was originally a PNG file for example (but it could be anything digital, video, music, a piece in a digital game), then a JPG copy of the artwork is an entirely different entity. The same thing even if one pixel is changed in the picture. So basically you have a certificate to say you own a MD5 or SHA hash number. The actual picture is irrelevant. 1
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 14, 2021 Volunteer Posted May 14, 2021 7 hours ago, bob_m_54 said: Maybe David Thorne was onto something, with his spider.. how brilliant was that spider 1
Steffen Posted May 14, 2021 Posted May 14, 2021 I try to stick to a simple formula: the only long-term viable way of making money is in exchange for actual goods or services, i.e. honest work, producing something that others can consume. If you get drawn into any other way of making money you’re throwing your luck in with the professional gamblers, speculants and fraudsters. Everybody has of course heard of stories about people becoming millionaires with a swift and well-executed transaction. The things is, without any actual value being produced, for one man to make a million, it takes a thousand suckers to lose a thousand bucks each. You decide whether you want to be among those suckers, or whether you have the chops to be the con man at the top. 6
bob_m_54 Posted May 14, 2021 Posted May 14, 2021 56 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: how brilliant was that spider Especially getting it sent back.. But it's exactly the same principle as NFTs, and had he registered it (during his time travel) it would be worth way more than the $233.95, although I'm not sure if it would be worth as much in the past. That whole email string is a hoot though. 1 1
oztheatre Posted May 14, 2021 Author Posted May 14, 2021 11 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said: how brilliant was that spider Yep I imagine quite a few people had coffee coming out their noses after seeing that. spider wants his leg back lol 1
Jake Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 The Wyckoff Composite Man. http://uncomplication.com/bitcoin-2020-bull-market-uncomplicated/ The market is currently following this perfectly. The market is controlled completely by whales and institutions, but Wyckoff made the point that even this does not matter. I suspect BTC will continue to drop to about $27-28K USD before the recovery. But recover, it shall. HODL!
muon* Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 I still don't get how imaginary currency can have any real value, friggin internet is nuts
oztheatre Posted May 25, 2021 Author Posted May 25, 2021 On 23/05/2021 at 8:19 PM, muon* said: I still don't get how imaginary currency can have any real value, friggin internet is nuts Yep, it's just an agreement on it's value. At least stock prices are reflected by the company's performance. Most of these coin creators idea of performance is a twitter post about a 'deal' they struck which is usually some bs glitter throwing crap where the two companies agreed to have each others logo on their twitface page. Others do more serious work but 99% are in a popularity contest.
oztheatre Posted May 25, 2021 Author Posted May 25, 2021 When you have something completely dependent on other things to hold it up and make it work.. remember what happened in 1859? The Carrington event.. the Sun.. Grid collapse is not a joke. Not much of anything would continue to exist without electricity..
Esoterica Posted May 25, 2021 Posted May 25, 2021 I agree with Bill on this. The quote about the cost of electricity to mine bitcoin is alarming.
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 25, 2021 Volunteer Posted May 25, 2021 26 minutes ago, oztheatre said: Yep, it's just an agreement on it's value I’m quite sure this is a massive bubble but to be fair, most financial instruments are also “just an agreement on value”. 1
oztheatre Posted May 25, 2021 Author Posted May 25, 2021 Just now, sir sanders zingmore said: I’m quite sure this is a massive bubble but to be fair, most financial instruments are also “just an agreement on value”. It has to be, how can a coin that does nothing aside agreeing to exist on a computer be worth more than large corporations that actually manufacture product? it's just become a gamblers platform, why I think it may never vanish.
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 25, 2021 Volunteer Posted May 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, oztheatre said: It has to be, how can a coin that does nothing aside agreeing to exist on a computer be worth more than large corporations that actually manufacture product? it's just become a gamblers platform, why I think it may never vanish. I don’t think it will disappear. Two reasons: it’s incredibly useful in the black market. There’s a lot of criminal activity that loves cryptos. The other reason is the blockchain aspect. This is actually useful in the real world
davewantsmoore Posted May 26, 2021 Posted May 26, 2021 On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: Defi is here to stay no doubt. There are some great platforms out there, one or a few will win out. Not so sure about this. Blockchain can do some truly wonderful things (almost all of which people are yet to understand/experience) .... but "democratising financial services", doesn't really need the blockchain as an enabler. People might be confused by high APYs, thinking "this is the future". Why those APYs exist, is a more complicated story. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: But what a bubble. ... fascinating. How long can it go on? What does the pop look like? On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: It's gone from something like 700 billion a few months ago to 2 trillion plus today. Sure ... but this "market cap". It's a completely non-sensical measurement. We could estimate the real underlying as USDT printing (52 billion USD) plus "retail" USD inflows.... hard to know how much, but it's not any think at all even close to 500 billion. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: When it comes down, it's going to come down hard. Very much so. 99% of projects will be shown to not be really capable of the things they (or 3rd parties) claim.... in any way which is useful and/or sustainable and/or legal, at any significant scale. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: You have to give it time to mature, or gamble on these shitcoins which can make or break you. You have to be savvy enough to not buy (and hold) the top. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: A mate on here lost 10,000 btc in 2012 Ooooowwwwch. ... and I thought my story was sad. *gulp* On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: One that stuck out to me is called RADIX, a horizontally laid architecture that has unlimited scalability and solves atomic composability at the same time. They claim to have solved the trillema. I think it's something like twice as fast as whatsapp, 65 times faster than visa, 500 times faster than bitcoin. World records for tps at 1.4m so pretty impressive. The coder Dan Hughes showed atomic composability for the first time on his twitter feed.. so rather impressive. Number go up? Probably (so I can't say "don't buy") .... but global scalable / flexible blockchain. No. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: But it's a platform and it's not blockchain, some say it's DAG, others say no it's not. DAG like behaviour is probably more important.... than "does it look like a blockchain". Ultimately, most people miss the scalability aspect of the technology.... and end up with solutions which cannot scale big/wide enough. Like the internet mania of the 80s and 90s...... in a while, all of the goings on today are going to look pretty silly and quaint IMVHO. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: Progress will always see these changes but coins like dogecoin and others will be there for gamblers always. Always? Heh. The idiocracy will be exposed. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: Where this goes from here. 5 trillion? 10, 20 trillion market cap? Market cap is entirely nonsensical. Where to? The law catches up with many players One system achieves critical mass "Crypto" dies People use "the blockchain" for everything On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: Will it be the new digital gold "Digital gold" is beyond moronic. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: as some are calling the old girl Bitcoin. BTC is not "bitcoin". BTC developers made very significant "changes" to bitcoin between 2014 and 207 ..... meaning that almost all of the capabilities, scalability, and flexibility of the protocol were removed / broken. "very significant changes" does not really even do it justice. That's a comical understatement. The bitcoin protocol is (was) capable of virtually unlimited scale, and flexibility. It can do anything that any other blockchain can do (but better). Satoshi Nakamoto told everyone that .... but few understood. (He did a pretty poor job of explaining it, IMVHO). On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: I'd hate to say where it goes The future will be very interesting. The politics of this is unknowably massive. The capabilities of a global, scalable, flexible blockchain..... are mind-bending. If it's gets legs it will eat everything.... and that scares a lot of people. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: Do banks just up their game and compete? Another things that satoshi said, which nobody much listened to, is that this is not "in competition" with the banks. Banks can use the blockchain.... and benefit from its capabilities, just like anyone else. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: or do they just join in and use it also? Exactly. The can build whatever systems they want on top of the blockchain. ie. provable, secure, data storage and messaging. (ie. people can trust things with out an "authority" who makes sure there is no cheating). That doesn't mean it threatens banks.... or law (or lawyers) ... or governments.... like many people think (most people in "Crypto"). It enables them to work better. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: Satoshi vision On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: of it being used as a currency Wasn't really the vision. People misunderstand what is meant by "electronic cash system". It means that I can make a transaction .... and I can give it to you (directly to you ... ie. without even being connected to the internet) ... and you can then have it validated by the network (later). You can have everything you need to trust the tx I give you, without needing to talk to the network. We can do tx back and forth between each other.... and only (later) commit the result to the network. This "transaction" is not just "Alice pays Bob". It's not just a "payment". It's any type of data or computation or communication you can imagine. On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: instead it's been turned into a huge casino for gamblers. Yes. 100% On 29/04/2021 at 8:29 PM, oztheatre said: It's a little silly now, 7000 coins, rug pulls and all sorts of FUD drives this market. Every coin has a 'new deal' happening each week. It's nothing more than a popularity contest right now. 1000% Again... like the 80s and 90s "internet" ..... 99.9% of this will be shown to be vapourware, and/or people trying to build their own "walled gardens", or "shiny things".
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 26, 2021 Volunteer Posted May 26, 2021 5 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: Again... like the 80s and 90s "internet" ..... 99.9% of this will be shown to be vapourware, and/or people trying to build their own "walled gardens", or "shiny things". It does remind me of the tech bubble. Companies listing that had no business plan, no product, no revenue, just .com appended to their name. But behind the froth there was something of substance. Some of companies that came out of that crash have for good or bad, probably delivered more than anyone’s wildest dreams. Once the crypto crash comes, there may well be some solid companies remaining that will start to deliver on the real value of blockchain.
davewantsmoore Posted May 26, 2021 Posted May 26, 2021 33 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: Two reasons: it’s incredibly useful in the black market. That is one of the reasons it will disappear. Governments are just waaay to slow to catch up and understand it (and understand how they can enforce regulation). The eventual, global, implementation of blockchain, needs to walk a fine line, where it can be compliant with the existing laws and systems (which are all there for very good reason). It can't be anonymous, and it can't intentionally loose records. It can be very private though. That being said, time is running out before the implementation could be very NOT private...... . but if the powers that be want that it can happen without without a "blockchain". 33 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: There’s a lot of criminal activity that loves cryptos. Indeed.... but mostly crypto is not the silver bullet they hope (not as "anonymous" as they want). Hence the push to make more changes to BTC and Bitcoin Cash and other project to bring in more "privacy" (really they mean "anonymity" which is not the same thing). 33 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: This is actually useful in the real world More than most people can begin to imagine. Think "the internet" but times a zillion. Networks unlocked machine communication for the masses. Blockchains unlock secure communication for the masses... without having to have a 3rd party who "runs the system". When we use computers for things.... I can't connect my computer to yours to play a game... or make a payment.... or communicate... or anything. We both have to connect our computers to someone else. Why? Because if you and I connected our computers to each other (for whatever) .... I would program my computer to cheat you. Escaping the 3rd party ..... means an orders of magnitude jump forwards.
davewantsmoore Posted May 26, 2021 Posted May 26, 2021 1 minute ago, sir sanders zingmore said: It does remind me of the tech bubble. Companies listing that had no business plan, no product, no revenue, just .com appended to their name. Yep.... number go up is a powerful meme. 1 minute ago, sir sanders zingmore said: But behind the froth there was something of substance. Some of companies that came out of that crash have for good or bad, probably delivered more than anyone’s wildest dreams. Yep. .... bu they were companies which used the underlying basic tech to do big cool businessy things. The underlying tech was simple boring plumbing for the most part. Crypto today, is arguing about the "boring underlying tech" .... and most of it is complete nonsense that will die quietly. That being said... it's hard to say how much longer and louder the party goes, before it turns around. Especially with the state of the world as it is. Buckle up 1 minute ago, sir sanders zingmore said: Once the crypto crash comes, there may well be some solid companies remaining that will start to deliver on the real value of blockchain. 100%
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 26, 2021 Volunteer Posted May 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: That is one of the reasons it will disappear. Governments are just waaay to slow to catch up and understand it (and understand how they can enforce regulation). The eventual, global, implementation of blockchain, needs to walk a fine line, where it can be compliant with the existing laws and systems (which are all there for very good reason). It can't be anonymous, and it can't intentionally loose records. It can be very private though. That being said, time is running out before the implementation could be very NOT private...... . but if the powers that be want that it can happen without without a "blockchain". Indeed.... but mostly crypto is not the silver bullet they hope (not as "anonymous" as they want). Hence the push to make more changes to BTC and Bitcoin Cash and other project to bring in more "privacy" (really they mean "anonymity" which is not the same thing). More than most people can begin to imagine. Think "the internet" but times a zillion. Networks unlocked machine communication for the masses. Blockchains unlock secure communication for the masses... without having to have a 3rd party who "runs the system". When we use computers for things.... I can't connect my computer to yours to play a game... or make a payment.... or communicate... or anything. We both have to connect our computers to someone else. Why? Because if you and I connected our computers to each other (for whatever) .... I would program my computer to cheat you. Escaping the 3rd party ..... means an orders of magnitude jump forwards. I never ever thought I’d say this, ever, but the idea that people or groups of people can connect completely anonymously is a bit scary. We already have terrifying polarisation in society. This has the potential to push it to real extremes.
davewantsmoore Posted May 26, 2021 Posted May 26, 2021 35 minutes ago, Jake said: What people misunderstand about the energy cost to run a "proof of work" network (like bitcoin, for example) ... is that bitcoin has been "knee-capped" by it's developers... so it doesn't work the way it was designed. Skipping all the bits about what they broke, and what effect that has ...... we end up with a result where the energy use of the network, follows the price of the asset. The more expensive bitcoin gets, the more energy miners may risk expending. It doesn't matter how few or many transactions or services are offered... only the price. Without this "breakage" ..... the energy expenditure "arms race" is much much more muted ..... and, transaction capacity (and the possible services that can be offered) .... tends towards infinity. So, while you may use a lot of energy to run the network .... but it replaces everything. The blockchain at small scale is non-sensical.... The blockchain at vast scale, may be the most efficient "public" distributed computing system that can be invented.
davewantsmoore Posted May 26, 2021 Posted May 26, 2021 1 hour ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I never ever thought I’d say this, ever, but the idea that people or groups of people can connect completely anonymously is a bit scary. Bitcoin isn't anonymous. It's pseudonymous... with a public and untamper-able (I think just made up a word) evidence trail. We can connect without permission from a 3rd party You can know provably that it is me (and vice versa) 3rd parties will not know that it is us. It is possible for 3rd parties to "figure out" at it is us (but difficult, tending to impractical) I can prove later on, that it was me (to a 3rd party) ... either if I choose to, or if I am compelled to. If you think about these things... it mirrors the real world. If you modify any of these parameters, it leads to an undesirable system. 1 hour ago, sir sanders zingmore said: We already have terrifying polarisation in society. This has the potential to push it to real extremes. Yes... some blockchains have attempted anonymity. Many say they have succeeded but it's not quite bullet proof...... but it is possible to do a good enough job. Anonymity ..... although touted by many as "this is what we need to ensure out freedom" ...... leads to dystopia. It will lead to a terrifying future where the bad guys get all the benefits with none of the risks. The bad guys will be literally uncatchable.... rather than it just being "difficult" (tending to impractical, if they are sophisticated). 1
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