General IEM & DAP Chat

[aussievintage]

56 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

If I was towing a caravan I'm sure I could find room for a pair of full sized headphones and probably an amp as well.

 

Unfortunately, as I said, I have tried and tried, but headphones are too hot for me.  I can only stand them for short term.    I do have a decent JBL bluetooth speaker system,  but sometimes you just want to listen at normal volume (something caravan parks do not like  ) 

[eLicky]

1 hour ago, Bengineer said:

The Etymotic are the deepest universal. They touch your soul.

 

When done right, they also offer the best isolation, up there with proper sealed customs.

 

I used to wear them in the office, force people to tap me on the shoulder.

I perforated my left eardrum removing ER4S with silicone tips. I'd owned them a few years and always broke the seal by lifitng upward before removal, just one time in a rush I forget and literally reverse suction pulled my ear drum, the pain was one of the worst I've ever felt. It took many months to heal even 5+years later still isn't perfect.

I adored the sound of ER4S with a nice little portable amp but wouldn't use them after that.

Anyway, the best IEMs ever made and in the universe are Tralucent Audio 1Plus2, tried, owned and tested by myself.

[Bengineer]

Ouch. Yes. Take care removing IEMs!

[AudioGeek]

Yeah, heard of nasty ear canal infections as well. Need to regularly clean and change tips

[aussievintage]

15 minutes ago, AudioGeek said:

Yeah, heard of nasty ear canal infections as well. Need to regularly clean and change tips

 

hmmm...  making me lean towards non-sealing iems, this is.

[Bengineer]

Nah, just don't be silly. Twist them out slowly, and clean the tips. Like a normal competent human! Haha 

[eLicky]

1 minute ago, aussievintage said:

 

hmmm...  making me lean towards non-sealing iems, this is.

Etymotic IEMs are unique with their deep insertion, most regular IEMs are ok.  

[GiullianSN]

Etymotic is too much for me. Feel like my ears are getting violated. But they sound great.  

[Kevy]

Those triple plug Etymotic ER4P's were my first serious IEM. I remember having to save for ages, spending hours on forums and then really loving how 'natural' I thought they sound. The detail on the Etymotics stay with me several decades later.

 

As for el cheapo's I was rather impressed with the AirPods Pro. They reminded me of my Shure's. Just so comfortable. 

 

A2A have nearly persuaded me to go custom. Campfire have an 'audiophile' custom option that goes only to the first ear bend and should be rather comfortable. Apparently a good custom fit takes IEM audio to a new level. As we all know, IEM's can sound terrible with a poor fit.

 

I've been lucky and done really well with stock tip options most of the time.

 

My first listen to these lasted about 20 seconds before I realised the medium tips were too small. That plasticky, thin sound with no bass and over sparkly treble. A few rolls of the included tip options to my usual 'large' size and I'm enjoying these little birds that arrived today.

 

 

[GiullianSN]

46 minutes ago, Dr_Kevy said:

Those triple plug Etymotic ER4P's were my first serious IEM. I remember having to save for ages, spending hours on forums and then really loving how 'natural' I thought they sound. The detail on the Etymotics stay with me several decades later.

 

As for el cheapo's I was rather impressed with the AirPods Pro. They reminded me of my Shure's. Just so comfortable. 

 

A2A have nearly persuaded me to go custom. Campfire have an 'audiophile' custom option that goes only to the first ear bend and should be rather comfortable. Apparently a good custom fit takes IEM audio to a new level. As we all know, IEM's can sound terrible with a poor fit.

 

I've been lucky and done really well with stock tip options most of the time.

 

My first listen to these lasted about 20 seconds before I realised the medium tips were too small. That plasticky, thin sound with no bass and over sparkly treble. A few rolls of the included tip options to my usual 'large' size and I'm enjoying these little birds that arrived today.

 

 

I may say I persuaded myself to go Customs, I got tired of trying to find the right fit and always got some sort of discomfort after a few minutes. Out of 5 IEMs around here today, 3 are customs and 0 regret. 
 

PS. Let us know your thoughts on the Trailli vs your current ones. 

[Kevy]

Trailii has been rather extensively reviewed by Headfonia and Twister6. Noting both have top-end IEM's sent to them by local distributors.

 

Initial thoughts:

 

Packaging is very utilitarian. Brown cardboard box. That's it. The Van Nuys box goes very well with my SP2000 as I have the matching Van Nuys AK case.

 

PWA 1960's cable. Study. Black. Understated. Yes, there are microphonics if you tap it. Touch it. Stroke it. But if you are listening to these, you're going to be not likely to be moving. It doesn't bother me. Cable length is rather short. I haven't measured it, but <1m. I haven't cable rolled but seriously, people pay that much for a cable? 

Very understated. None of the flashy faceplates nor stabilised wood nor Stirling silver. Photopolymer. Yep. It's hard, slick and you'd think these were hearing aids. Wide bore 5.5mm tips are comfortable and very lightweight. More comfortable than my Andromeda 2020's. I can't think of a lighter IEM with the number of  drivers. I wouldn't want to drop them though.

 

Fit is important. I had no trouble with large stock tips. Similar to Spinfit 500 tips. Rolling on the large tip to the wide-bore IEM was a *****. I had to invert the tip and stretch it over. First go took 5 minutes though subsequent attempts once I got the rolling technique right was about 30 seconds. 

 

Soundstage is as they say in the reviews very wide for an IEM. Wider than the Utopia. Doesn't quite have the depth. Not as wide as the HD800S. Perhaps not dissimilar to the alacantara pads on the Empyrean. Precise. You'd expect it to be at this price point. More precise than the Andromeda 2020.

 

Detail, separation and clarity are the best I've heard. Period. More forgiving than the Utopia perhaps. Have you ever gone from the Chord TT2 and then plugged into the DCS Bartok? A significant step up from the Andromeda's. You can hear each individual note on Piano tracks. I often use The Piano Guys and Lang Lang at the Movies (Gladiator) as test tracks. Tuning seems neutral though there's a slight forward in the mids that gives it a subtle musicality. I can only imagine what these would sound like out of a tube amp and have heard great things in those who pair them with a Cayin C9. I've heard these compared to the Susvara in sound signature. I can relate to the comparison as the signature isn't dissimilar to the HifiMan. Or the HD800S.

 

Bass. It's not quite dynamic driver bass. Empy's , Utopia all do it much better. But it's precise, measured and controlled with sufficient attack. Nowhere as plastic as the Andromeda 2020's. Then again, bass isn't the CFA Andro's strong point. I haven't played a heavy bass track out of them. Source matters. The bass is much more impressive out of the Hugo2 than it is out of the more neutral SP2000. 

 

Listening to Bon Jovi's 'Living on a Prayer' -> it feels more like you're at a recording studio than the mosh pit.That may however be source specific. The SP2000 isn't known to be a bass head DAP. There's a preciseness to the bass attack and decay on "It's my Life'. It's not the deep, resonating Planar bass.

 

Mids. Nothing and everything to sing home about. I can't fault it. Hard to describe. It's just 'nice'. Smooth and sings well. Relaxing and not as forward as the Andromeda's. 

 

Highs. Marginally bright and sparkly. But not sibilant. I'd use the high roll off filter on the Hugo2 on certain tracks. Reminds me of the Utopia here. Extension, sparkle and all the usual words are as good as they get. 

 

Surprisingly not fatiguing. There's a very subtle synthesised sound from Balanced Armatures you can never escape. That is if you're sensitive to the difference between BA and Dynamic Drivers/Planars. Detail and clarity are the strong points on the bird. 

 

Note: very posh packaging below.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Dr_Kevy

[Bengineer]

5.5mm bore, yikes. I'd have to just use them tipless hahah.

[RePete]

17 hours ago, aussievintage said:

Over the years, I have tried so many over-ear and on-ear headphones, and love the sound, but in the end, could never live with them for long sessions, as they made my ears feel too hot, especially in Qld summers. 

 

However, the sound of iems that I tried was always a bit lacking.   Partly lack of bass, and thin sounding.  I put that all down to limits of a small diaphragm.    Best bass was from the type with rubber plugs that seal the ear canal.     The result with these was better, but was so vairable depending on how hard I inserted them and I wasn't sure I liked the feel when they were pushed in hard (which gave best bass).

 

What has changed for me, since I last tried iems, is a new shape for the type that just sit in the ear.  I saw this new shape in some free ones that came with my Samsung, and later, Oppo phones.  Looks like this...

 

 

 

These feel great.  The sound isn't too bad either,  so I am back experimenting.  

 

Also,  the player that I use in my phone now,  Poweramp,  seems to have very good sound processing, and the equaliser seems to work well without muddying the sound too much.  So,  I am refining some eq profiles for a range of cheap iems and really giving them a good tryout.

 

I have the Oppo iems (above), some Samsung that are similar, and some Samsung of the rubber plug in style,  and also some old-school Sennheisers that just hang a round disc in the ear.  Nothing expensive yet.

 

I am also thinking of maybe Bluetooth types.  I was surprised they have come down in price.  Officeworks sell a pair that look like the Oppos above, starting at $15.

 

My aim is to see if I can be fairly happy with one of the ones I have already, by using the eq to fix the sound,  then consider buying something more expensive.

 

edit:  pictures of the cheap ones I am experimenting with

 

Try wearing a pair of industrial earmuffs over the top of these IEMs. I put a pair over the top of my Airbuds the other day and the bass response and isolation was amazing. 

[Bengineer]

Try this one simple hack that headphone companies don't want you to know. The results will shock you.

[GiullianSN]

8 hours ago, Dr_Kevy said:

Trailii has been rather extensively reviewed by Headfonia and Twister6. Noting both have top-end IEM's sent to them by local distributors.

 

Initial thoughts:

 

Packaging is very utilitarian. Brown cardboard box. That's it. The Van Nuys box goes very well with my SP2000 as I have the matching Van Nuys AK case.

 

PWA 1960's cable. Study. Black. Understated. Yes, there are microphonics if you tap it. Touch it. Stroke it. But if you are listening to these, you're going to be not likely to be moving. It doesn't bother me. Cable length is rather short. I haven't measured it, but <1m. I haven't cable rolled but seriously, people pay that much for a cable? 

Very understated. None of the flashy faceplates nor stabilised wood nor Stirling silver. Photopolymer. Yep. It's hard, slick and you'd think these were hearing aids. Wide bore 5.5mm tips are comfortable and very lightweight. More comfortable than my Andromeda 2020's. I can't think of a lighter IEM with the number of  drivers. I wouldn't want to drop them though.

 

Fit is important. I had no trouble with large stock tips. Similar to Spinfit 500 tips. Rolling on the large tip to the wide-bore IEM was a *****. I had to invert the tip and stretch it over. First go took 5 minutes though subsequent attempts once I got the rolling technique right was about 30 seconds. 

 

Soundstage is as they say in the reviews very wide for an IEM. Wider than the Utopia. Doesn't quite have the depth. Not as wide as the HD800S. Perhaps not dissimilar to the alacantara pads on the Empyrean. Precise. You'd expect it to be at this price point. More precise than the Andromeda 2020.

 

Detail, separation and clarity are the best I've heard. Period. More forgiving than the Utopia perhaps. Have you ever gone from the Chord TT2 and then plugged into the DCS Bartok? A significant step up from the Andromeda's. You can hear each individual note on Piano tracks. I often use The Piano Guys and Lang Lang at the Movies (Gladiator) as test tracks. Tuning seems neutral though there's a slight forward in the mids that gives it a subtle musicality. I can only imagine what these would sound like out of a tube amp and have heard great things in those who pair them with a Cayin C9. I've heard these compared to the Susvara in sound signature. I can relate to the comparison as the signature isn't dissimilar to the HifiMan. Or the HD800S.

 

Bass. It's not quite dynamic driver bass. Empy's , Utopia all do it much better. But it's precise, measured and controlled with sufficient attack. Nowhere as plastic as the Andromeda 2020's. Then again, bass isn't the CFA Andro's strong point. I haven't played a heavy bass track out of them. Source matters. The bass is much more impressive out of the Hugo2 than it is out of the more neutral SP2000. 

 

Listening to Bon Jovi's 'Living on a Prayer' -> it feels more like you're at a recording studio than the mosh pit.That may however be source specific. The SP2000 isn't known to be a bass head DAP. There's a preciseness to the bass attack and decay on "It's my Life'. It's not the deep, resonating Planar bass.

 

Mids. Nothing and everything to sing home about. I can't fault it. Hard to describe. It's just 'nice'. Smooth and sings well. Relaxing and not as forward as the Andromeda's. 

 

Highs. Marginally bright and sparkly. But not sibilant. I'd use the high roll off filter on the Hugo2 on certain tracks. Reminds me of the Utopia here. Extension, sparkle and all the usual words are as good as they get. 

 

Surprisingly not fatiguing. There's a very subtle synthesised sound from Balanced Armatures you can never escape. That is if you're sensitive to the difference between BA and Dynamic Drivers/Planars. Detail and clarity are the strong points on the bird. 

 

Note: very posh packaging below.

 

thanks for the comments, mate. I’m not a big fan of Headfonia and actually prefer “real user” comments instead of a full review (those are more product showcase). I am curious about it, but as per your comments, doesn’t look like it is “the end of the game” IEM for the price. 
 

Andromeda Mids are an interesting thing, I used to love it until I tried a feel other IEMs side by side (M9, Z1r, A12t)

 

1 hour ago, Bengineer said:

5.5mm bore, yikes. I'd have to just use them tipless hahah.

5.5mm is definitely something to have an eye on. The usual 4mm is already a pain for me.

[aussievintage]

Just in case anyone can benefit,  here's my experience with the low end bluetooth tws iems you can get from Officeworks for $15

 

 

[Kevy]

Reading through the comments on Head-Fi, there are several that discuss the Trailli ; usually amongst the threads that are also discussing the new Melody Ears Mason FS edition at the bargain price of $6000US.

 

The consensus is that the Trailli is indeed summit-fi and from a technical perspective amongst the top 1 or 2 options. At this level, much is personal preference. I enjoy them.. The laid back, airy transparent detail has been refreshing. No, the mids are not forward nor are they as velvety as the Empyrean but they are still enjoyable.

 

[DrTobiasFunke]

5 hours ago, aussievintage said:

here's my experience with the low end bluetooth tws iems you can get from Officeworks for $15

 

19 minutes ago, Dr_Kevy said:

discussing the new Melody Ears Mason FS edition at the bargain price of $6000US.

Spanning the breadth of IEM's

I'm enjoying this new thread very much....

Thanks for starting it @Bengineer

[Bengineer]

1 minute ago, DrTobiasFunke said:

 

Spanning the breadth of IEM's

I'm enjoying this new thread very much....

Thanks for starting it @Bengineer

It's just what I do Ken. I bring people together and watch them flourish. Headphone Jesus I hear you say? Well, I didn't say it.

[Bengineer]

Also love the name.

[GiullianSN]

8 minutes ago, Dr_Kevy said:

Reading through the comments on Head-Fi, there are several that discuss the Trailli ; usually amongst the threads that are also discussing the new Melody Ears Mason FS edition at the bargain price of $6000US.

 

The consensus is that the Trailli is indeed summit-fi and from a technical perspective amongst the top 1 or 2 options. At this level, much is personal preference. I enjoy them.. The laid back, airy transparent detail has been refreshing. No, the mids are not forward nor are they as velvety as the Empyrean but they are still enjoyable.

 

I like UM, but that Mason price is a bit too premium.

 

i have no doubt the Trailli and Mason are great IEMs, but the price is for each one to decide if it is great enough to justify.

 

@damz87 you have the Trailli as well right? What do you think about it?

[Kevy]

7 hours ago, GiullianSN said:

I like UM, but that Mason price is a bit too premium.

 

i have no doubt the Trailli and Mason are great IEMs, but the price is for each one to decide if it is great enough to justify.

 

@damz87 you have the Trailli as well right? What do you think about it?

 

Listening to the Trailli out of the Astell and Kern SP2000 with the Effect Audio AK adapter properly tonight.

It's pretty much destroyed it for me for anything else. There's not really a thing out of place. They have the detail of the Susvara, musically smooth in the vocal and timbre with no perceived significant faults in either treble or bass. An airy soundstage and separation detail that is near perfect. Most TOTL IEM's or headphones do most things very, very well but are just a tad short in one or two areas. Hence the constant preference and headphone rolling.  The Trailli is an all round straight-A performer. 

 

I've just packed up and shelved the Hugo 2, Utopia, Empyrean and HD800S. 

 

I remember when I first auditioned the DCS Bartok, I was told 'are you sure? it'll pretty much make it over everything else you have tried to so far'. He was right. I can't ever get the sound memory out of my head. No other DAC/AMP has quite done that for me. Just as no headphone has ... except perhaps the Susvara and the Empyrean to a lesser extent. And the Trailli.

 

Would be delighted to hear other people's comments. 

 

Are they worth $6000US + whatever customs/duty/GST? FWIW YMMV ... there is a discount code available. Although the distributor believes RRP apparently will shortly increase to $6600US!!! 

 

But if I had to choose between $5000 for the Utopia or the Trailli, I'd pick the latter without hesitation.

 

I don't know the rules about cross referencing other forums. But the comments here (from a non-reviewer review) are spot on. 

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/birds-sing-kings-rhap-a-summit-fi-shootout-between-the-rhapsodio-supreme-mk2-vision-ears-erlkönig-rhapsodio-infinity-mk2-oriolus-traillii-jp.957044/

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Dr_Kevy

[Kevy]

Has anyone tried the Cayin C9 or know of a good desktop amp that will pair well with IEMs but drive headphones well?

[Bengineer]

RME ADI-2 has a IEM output.

iFi iDSD Pro or iCan also

[DrTobiasFunke]

ifi Audio micro idsd black label - a good cheaper option - handles headphones and IEM's well.

(And has a bass boost switch - who doesn't need that every now and then?)