Music in 5.1

[LuzArt]

I'm returning to surround sound mixes soon, I wondered how many others out there are into or contemplating a surround setup for listening to albums in 5.1?

I thought it could be a good thing to list my titles as I go, giving a bit of a critique on the mix and SQ. I had a setup around 5 years ago before I moved o/s but my soon-to-be-complete system will be better this time around and I'll be able to rediscover the 20 or so titles I have plus some new ones about to arrive.

Hope some other folks are keen to get in on the idea.

Cheers

Ben

[DoggieHowser]

Off the top of my head...

ALL DEPECHE MODE SACD/CD remasters.

Seal: Best DVDA

Genesis had a few DVDAs that are OOP but were still relatively affordable from Amazon.

Michael Jackson This is it BluRay

Chris Botti (BOTH blurays are good)

Carpenters Singles SACD

Ray Charles Genius Loves Company SACD

These have just been reissued in Japan. Get them NOW before they go OOP.

Eagles Hotel California - SACD

Linda Ronstadt - SACD

Fleetwood Mac - Rumours SACD

Foreigner 4 SACD

and quite a few others.

[LuzArt]

Doggiehowser - I have Rumors and Hotel Cali on DVD-A, I wonder how different they would be on SACD. Is it known that the new SACD versions have different/newer remaster tapes used for them?

[DoggieHowser]

I couldn't afford the OOP DVDAs.

But a friend of mine who had both versions of the same albums said:

Hotel California and Linda Ronstadt. MUST BUY.

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=70458.msg698584#msg698584

Eagles- Hotel California Track 2: New Kid In Town

I am very familiar with this DVD-A recording, having listened and using it as a reference for years………..but now listening to this new SACD Multichannel, it is really a revelation. The new SACD multichannel remastering gives a thicker, fuller bodied and more enveloping experience. The DVD-A version sounds thinner but still good if you don’t have the SACD. If you want me to say good thing about the DVD-A , then IMHO, it has better placement of the various instruments but overall experience still not as good.

Comparing SACD 24/96 and DVDA 192/24, you can hear the characteristic…..DVD-A sounded very refined but then since the SACD remastering is superior on this title, SACD Stereo is still preferred here. At the end of the track, the DVD-A to me sounded a little edgy as the music becomes quite loud as the loud cymbals start coming in. On the SACD everything is well controlled….the cymbals has none of the edginess and you can continue to blast without fear.

Linda Ronstadt – What’s New Track 1 : What’s New.

The sound on this SACD is different from the Eagles, it actually sounds thinner on the SACD compared to the DVD-A. Again someone has really done a great resmastering job….Linda’s voice on this SACD is magical, engaging, and astounding at the those optimised moments. DVD-A sound great too but when her voice gets loud, the SACD has this very pleasant voice resonance that the DVD-A lacks. Linda's voice on the DVD-A, if I could put it, is somewhat laid back a little to allow the orchestra music to take the front stage whereas it’s the other way around on the SACD.

Rumors - meh (sounded the same)

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=70458.msg709916#msg709916

"Multichannel (Track 9: I don't want to know")

Both SACD and DVD-A has the same scheme. I suspect the SACD is just a import from the DVD-A 5.1 with a little remastering. The sound on the DVD-A multichannel as compared to the SACD can be described as faded, uneven distribution of music among the 5 channels, edgy, thin. The SACD version has the same sound envelope with a little improvement in warmth / presence, say, the leading vocal......slightly.

I was so disappointed and I was unwell that I no longer want to compare any more. It was unexciting."

[DoggieHowser]

The only caveat I have about reading his review is that:

a. his SACD stereo player is an EMM Labs CDSA (not sure if it's the SE) but that's a DAMN GOOD SACD player.

b. his DVDA stereo/multichannel and SACD multichannel player is the Denon A1UD flagship running DenonLink4 to his Denon A1HDC pre/pro (with jitter reduction clock controls)

The Denon A1UD/HDC is good but I suspect it is outclassed by his EMM

[LuzArt]

Thanks Doggie, I remember buying the DVD-A's when I first got a combo player in 2003. That's the player I'll keep using for DVD-A (I have an REM one also, keen too get a particular Nick Cave album) but the Sony will be the SACD player.

[LuzArt]

The only caveat I have about reading his review is that:

a. his SACD stereo player is an EMM Labs CDSA (not sure if it's the SE) but that's a DAMN GOOD SACD player.

b. his DVDA stereo/multichannel and SACD multichannel player is the Denon A1UD flagship running DenonLink4 to his Denon A1HDC pre/pro (with jitter reduction clock controls)

The Denon A1UD/HDC is good but I suspect it is outclassed by his EMM

Yes it becomes difficult comparing formats when one player could very well out do the other anyway.

[LuzArt]

Doggie - did you end up getting the SACD versions? Maybe we can do a swap so you can compare the DVD-A and I could compare the SACD and see if it's worth me buying.

[DoggieHowser]

For 5.1 he's using the same player though.

Yes I do have the SACD for California, Ronstadt and Rumours. Not sure how we can swap though. Am out of the country for a couple of months.

[Peta]

Lessons #1-4 for 5.1 sound are to make sure your stereo sound is first class. Then the rest is a bonus. Surround adds a bit extra only when the remastering is well done. Moody Blues SACD, Dark Side of the Moon, All the King Crimson (DVD-A) and a small number of classical releases (Handel's Water Music for one) have been remastered well. The Islands remaster from King Crimson and their First album reveal a lot more from the music source as well as accurate instrument location via the surround.

At least that is what I have noticed from my own listening. 5.1 is what matters ... not rear speakers and all that fluff. IT is even arguable that a 4.1 system (centre disabled) can be better sounding with sharper imaging. That seems dependent on the player you use and its ability to re-mix the channels well. Oppo and Cambridge Audio players do that well - again from my own listening.

[Mr_Gimlet]

I listen to a fair bit of music in 5.1 and my system was originally built around Trifield decoding. Done well, it is a delight.

I would say my top recordings in 5.1 are the Paul McCreesh Messiah (SACD), Bach's Christmas Oratorio (Netherlands Bach) and Mozart's requiem (same). My favourite DVDAs are Brothers in Arms (we had an SACD/DVDA shootout last year), The Who's Tommy and Tubular Bells.

[DoggieHowser]

My home theatre had always been a miss mash of different brands and models. Plus, living in an apartment meant I had to compromise on placement of the speakers a lot.

Moving to a house changed that and the missus was good enough to let me dedicate a room for HT/music

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/35843-New-house-new-rooms-new-ideas....?p=580492&viewfull=1#post580492

I took the chance to get my speakers timbre matched. So now they were using Thiel voiced coaxial designs throughout. And positioned (as best I could) to the recommended standards.

A funny thing happened. You know how you can get a "virtual" centre speaker between your front 2 speakers? I'm getting that now with the surrounds as well. i.e. there are instruments emanating from where my DSX wide speakers are. Except I am using Pure Direct mode so the wide speakers are disabled. So instead of disparate discrete channels, I am getting a wall of sound, like in stereo, except it extends out across a wider arc. That to me was the biggest revelation.

@petacat, you'll find that most multichannel music soundtracks use very little of the centre channel anyway. Rather than worry about timbre matching, most multichannel audio tracks I have use the centre only for like ambient effects.

[Peta]

@petacat, you'll find that most multichannel music soundtracks use very little of the centre channel anyway. Rather than worry about timbre matching, most multichannel audio tracks I have use the centre only for like ambient effects.

I have observed that as well. It is part of the reason I think it can sound better without the centre speaker.

[Batty]

I gave up on 5.1 and went back to stereo, I only have 3 SACDs, DSOTM, War of the Worlds and Rubicon. They are all hybrid so I can play the redbook sector through my DAC.

[Benje]

Batty

is Rubicon stereo SACD only, or also multi-channel? I thought it was only stereo.

You know there is always a home for it elsewhere....

[DoggieHowser]

I think 5.1 music done right is really something. In stereo we try to create depth and width to our soundstage and it's really a big challenge to tweak. 5.1 IMHO gets you there and in a simpler process. Downsides you gotta use matched speakers. And can't compromise too much on positioning.

[Batty]

Batty

is Rubicon stereo SACD only, or also multi-channel? I thought it was only stereo.

You know there is always a home for it elsewhere....

I'll have to check the case in that one.

I had 5 Castle speakers and a Krix sub, tonal balance was good, but grandkids and placement meant I had to keep moving speakers out of the way. So not really a fault of the format just life choices.

[Stump]

I enjoy 5.1 as well as 2 channel .DEPECHE MODE SACD are a stand out as well as Groove Armada seem to be recorded for 5.1-Others just give you the pleasant surround experience.Im using a Denon 3930 and wonder what is the best quality machine for DVD-A and SACD 5.1 playback??

[DoggieHowser]

Best 5.1? Money no object, for SACD would either be

i. a Playback Designs MPS5 + 2 x MPD5 I understand you cascade the DACs to get 5.1 channels off the proprietary link from the transport/DAC. On a budget, you can do with 1xMPD5 (where the .1 and centre gets mixed into the front L/R)

ii. an EMM XDS1 + 2 x DAC2 (similar combo as the Playback)

For DVDA and SACD in a single player, I'd put my money on a DenonLink4 capable player (like the Denon DBP4010 or A1UD) and a DenonLink compatible AV Pre/Pr or AVR, like the A1HDC.

On a tighter budget, I'd recommend an Oppo95. The analog stage has been improved a fair bit. I'm even tempted to get a second one and send it to Dan Wright for the full tube mod

Edited September 19, 2011 by DoggieHowser

[Guest Chickenvenus]

I'm a 5.1 fan. If I can get a surround mix of a stereo album, in SACD or DVD-A it's my 1st choice.

There is a lot to be said for 5.1, 5.0 or even 4.0.

I just wish releases were more frequent and more affordable.

[Benje]

I'll have to check the case in that one.

sa-cd.net says it is only the 'darthlaker' mix, ie 2 channel, so you can still play all of it as an sacd on your system (if the sacd player is attached)

[Batty]

Using the SACD player as a transport for CD into the NFB2

[Craigandkim]

One thing I have noticed (reference Warner's batch of SACD title releases) is that CDJapan have omitted any reference to new "DSD" masters...

Does anyone have the linear notes with anything concerning the source material & mastering?

PS Highly skeptical of new DSD surround remaster...specially from Warner.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Craigandkim

[LuzArt]

Picked up the 2011 Remaster of Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds' No More Shall We Part yesterday. Fan-bloody-tastic. The DVD offers a 5.1 mix of the album in Dolby Digital and DTS at 96/24, the stereo I didn't actually check out as yet. A few bonus tracks are in 5.1 too including the Westwood Live Session, the music videos in stereo.

The mix just opens up beautifully in the 5.1 version, more space and room for the instruments and vocals. Interestingly some of the piano is reasonably active in the rears but not distractingly, it works. The bass guitar is rich and detailed, violin superb and Nick's vocals mostly from the centre. I remember this album feeling quite compressed in it's original form, but a bit less so on the new CD and the 5.1 mix. Shame it's not (and therefore I assume all these new releases) DVD-A for extended DR. I'm very keen now to get a couple more of these other NC re-releases.

[Boots-n-All]

I'm a 5.1 fan. If I can get a surround mix of a stereo album, in SACD or DVD-A it's my 1st choice.

There is a lot to be said for 5.1, 5.0 or even 4.0.

I just wish releases were more frequent and more affordable.

Hi there,

I'm also a 5.1 (5.0 actually) fan and luckily for me most new releases are in that format!

Obviously I'm a classical fan and surround is almost the only way to really get the feel of the concert halls (I also attend a lot of live concerts).

When it comes to the non-music that I listen to (mostly hard rock from the 60's & similar), I find that I usually prefer stereo and, if I have it, vinyl.

Boots.