Pioneer 355 Vs Samsung 228 on Picture and Sound

[timothychan]

I was told that the Samsung 228 and Pioneer 355 both can play.

 

1) All regions DVDs

2) RCE protected DVDs

3) D5(Single layer) , D9(Double layer) DVDs

 

 

 

I have not gone to test the players yet.

Besides these differences.

Anyone knows which has better picture quality ?

The sound ? More bassy, more highs ?

 

I have reason to guess that Pioneer sounds better because from experience with other equipment, I know Pioneer gives better D to A converters than other brands of similar stature.

 

 

[Norman_Chan]

It depend on your HT Amp. too , if you just connect to your TV set than nothing much to compare lah ... TV sound output all standard.

If your HT Amp. is good ... the decoding of the 5.1 will be fantastic that is provided you have a good set of speakers lah.

As both are entry level you cannot really hear much difference unless you have very-very good ear-drum.

[sebastiansong]

 

Personally I think if your ears are of such high quality, it is a curse... Why? Instead of being able to be satisfied with a out of the box budget home theatre system... you must spend thousands before you are remotely satisified with the quality of the audio output...

 

and probably people around you will assume you are nuts when you comment that the sound is "not clear". :P

[timothychan]

I'm am sorry if I am fussy. Thats because I am a film and sound student. :)

 

But no, I don't need Hi-Fi thousand dollar A/D convertors. All I want is a more pleasing sound. Is that too demanding to ask ? I wish to buy the best my budget can fetch and afterwards, be content and not think about it anymore.

 

When I said I had experience with Pioneer, it was with a consumer mini compo set, not audiophile equipment. So I am refering to sound quality in a general sense across consumer DVD players.

 

[Jag]

Considering u are a F&S student, you should have a better understanding of minimum standards of audio systems, pro or consumer.

 

If all u want is pleasing sound from dvdps, all major dvdps will give u sq as good as a CDP or MDP. They all will give CD quality sound, DVD quality video... no doubt about it. They can give varying quality, but most will give sq at least 44.1khz sampling, 16 bits res, with reasonable jitter to provide cd-quality sound.

 

When the word "audiophile" starts coming in, then the term "ambiguity" follows right behind.

 

You see, in the audiophile world, $1000 cables are common. At the same time, the placement of speakers, the clock stability and phase noise are just a few bones that audiophiles fuss over. In comparison, audio from DVDP will give these audiophiles a heart attack.

 

Generally, there are a few classes of audio quality. In no order of merit,

 

1)Cheap made in china players........ sounds worse than a toad!

 

2)mini-compo audio..... its fine considering its the pride of many school going kids. SQ is 3/10, but ok for its price.

 

3)Pro-audio....... SQ here is a mixed bag. Generally, up till the speakers, the SQ can be very good. Also the acoustic treatment of the venue, signal path characteristics plays a huge part in the SQ.

 

4)HT in a box systems...... SQ can be pretty bad, as bad as mini-compos. SQ maybe 4/10 for a typical set.

 

5)Audio brand systems. HT receivers like denon, yamaha, marantz, onkyo and may others can offer really good sq at a price that doesn't breaks the camel's back. Sq here can reach to as low as 5/10 on budget system to as high as 8/10 to a full blown money-is-no-object system.

 

6)Audiophile brands..... now this is the world of ambiguity. I won't venture here much coz a trip to Adelphi (oppsite funan) is enough to give u a price bracket of how much these systems cost. SQ attainable is almost a 9.9/10, but thats really not worth to some. We're speaking a nver ending road to nirvana if u're on this path.

 

Typically, 5 and 6 will give much better sq than from the rest, with exception of 3 due to obvious reasons.

 

Noting that u like to buy best of ur budget and be content with it for the next few years, then I suggest buying a entry level model and upgrade it every 2-3 yrs. Or buy a flagship model and upgrade it every 3-4yrs.

 

Both will give pleasing sounds......of course the more money, the "better" it will sound.

 

 

[sebastiansong]

 

Hi Tim

 

a film and sound student does not imply high standards... you can have high demands regardless of your level of education and background... the point is, as you have pointed out, how to work round budgetary constraints. To put in perspective, I have watched more than a thousand film and most of them on VHS on my trusty 14 inch color TV in my room. Shocking, isnt it.

 

Put it this way, quote us a budget you are comfortable with and we will see what we can do about it. WHen you are referring to entry level dvd players, the differences might be too subtle to tell. Remember for acoustics different room have different sounds and what you hear in a showroom is probably not what you are going to hear at home. Ultimately all recommendations are meant as references and you should go down personally to test out the systems.

 

Since you are a student, I seriously encourage you to explore and fully utilise your film library at school before setting your home system... arrange a few friends and you can use the projection room in your library (make friends with your librarians and they might let you work part time in the projection room and you learn more hands on)... every opportunity helps... there are more than enough good films out there that has no problems with the local censors and you could always focus on equipment and system setups when you have the dough.

[timothychan]

Indeed one can have high standards regardless of education and background. However, I think training taught me how to appreciate what sounds good :)

 

Perhaps what you are trying to tell me is to learn to be contented ?

 

Yup. I will take your advice in not spending too much. Actually all I intend is to get a simple player with good compatibility. Just that I like to find out about everything that is available, the technologies .. thus I'm afraid I may have give everyone the idea that I'm eyeing something big ? haha :)

 

I really do try to make use of the film library ! :) As much as I can. Like you, perhaps I watched some of the best films on VHS :)

 

 

 

 

[timothychan]

Hey Jag.

 

"They can give varying quality, but most will give sq at least 44.1khz sampling, 16 bits res, with reasonable jitter to provide cd-quality sound."

 

 

Regarding analogue sound output.

Even if all the players have 44.1khz sampling, 16 bits res, it does not matter because I feel more than the technology, it is the specific D/A converters that really makes the difference.

 

 

[FookLai]

 

Regarding analogue sound output.

"Even if all the players have 44.1khz sampling, 16 bits res, it does not matter because I feel more than the technology, it is the specific D/A converters that really makes the difference."

 

 

 

well, I don't really get your mean, care to explain?

[Jag]

For that matter, where the specifics of DAC is concerned, I can't say much which DVDP is good. I can say that Yamaha/Denon's DACs employed in their AV amps is quite good in contrast to that used in many dvdps.

 

But given the Pioneer/Samsung brands, Pioneers will give a better overall experience. Their DACs may not necessarily be the best of their class, but how good they are I can't say either. But honestly, I've personally tested them with a specially designed test track that specially tests for linearity and sadly, their performance is consistent with their class, less than perfect linearity.

 

The test track is a 1Khz sine wave and white noise recorded at -80dB, modulated with a 0.05Hz sine wave. Non-linearity of DAC would be indicated by noise artifacts at every 20s or 1/f noise. This noise is generated by the 0.05Hz wave and 1Khz wave when they arrive at non-linear steps of the DAC, modulate amoung themselves and produce extraneous audible noise.

 

Like everyone who has advised, I advise you to personally go down to demo your shortlisted dvdps.

 

But I honestly can say that the performance i think u want, entry level is not the way to go. They typically employ general purpose MSOC DACs incorporating crude DD down mixing alogrithms that will affect the quality your heart desires.

 

To go down deep into the details of the DAC, it may be worth to check further beyond this forum to realise the chipset employed by Pioneers. The advise this forum gives is for real-world compatibility performance (like playing D9s), reliability and pricing.

 

Very few would care to give much advise on the SQ on cheap entry level DVDPs. To get really good SQ from DVDPs alone, go for Pioneers flag-ship models. Its a matter of "Pay peanuts, get monkeys".

 

Given you background in S&F, you should be even more aware the specific DAC is doesn't really make the most difference. Apprarently, you're missing out on the immunity of power supply modulation, IM3 inter-modulation products, THD with relation to power supply stability, freq response linearity etc. Most of which can be measured using a good audio SA. Even the best DACs would suffer if the low voltage input power supply is dirty and suffers from external modulation. This would result in direct modulation of the output analog signal. So while the quality of DAC is important, its more important to ensure that the power supply of the DVD is stable if u intend to use DVDP's analog audio out. Thats where flagship DVDPs shine the brightest here.

 

Yup. I will take your advice in not spending too much. Actually all I intend is to get a simple player with good compatibility. Just that I like to find out about everything that is available, the technologies .. thus I'm afraid I may have give everyone the idea that I'm eyeing something big ? haha

 

Give those players a test drive. Who knows, the player with the best DACs might well come with the worst power supply stability. (hehehe, some of the latest slim DVDPs seem to suffer visibly from this on their video DACs, my ears not sensitive enough to see if their audio DACs are affected)

 

Give them a demo with familiar material. Discuss on your findings on the quality of the resultant audio. Include also the brand and model of the amps, decoder, speakers, cables as these too affect the sound audibly.

 

Good luck!

[FookLai]

For that matter, where the specifics of DAC is concerned, I can't say much which DVDP is good. I can say that Yamaha/Denon's DACs employed in their AV amps is quite good in contrast to that used in many dvdps.

 

But given the Pioneer/Samsung brands, Pioneers will give a better overall experience. Their DACs may not necessarily be the best of their class, but how good they are I can't say either. But honestly, I've personally tested them with a specially designed test track that specially tests for linearity and sadly, their performance is consistent with their class, less than perfect linearity.

 

The test track is a 1Khz sine wave and white noise recorded at -80dB, modulated with a 0.05Hz sine wave. Non-linearity of DAC would be indicated by noise artifacts at every 20s or 1/f noise. This noise is generated by the 0.05Hz wave and 1Khz wave when they arrive at non-linear steps of the DAC process.

 

Like everyone who has advised, I advise you to personally go down to demo your shortlisted dvdps.

 

But I honestly can say that the performance i think u want, entry level is not the way to go. They typically employ general purpose MSOC DACs incorporating crude DD down mixing alogrithms that will affect the quality your heart desires.

 

To go down deep into the details of the DAC, it may be worth to check further beyond this forum to realise the chipset employed by Pioneers. The advise this forum gives is for real-world compatibility performance (like playing D9s), reliability and pricing.

 

Very few would care to give much advise on the SQ on cheap entry level DVDPs. To get really good SQ from DVDPs alone, go for Pioneers flag-ship models. Its a matter of "Pay peanuts, get monkeys".

 

Given you background in S&F, you should be even more aware the specific DAC is doesn't really make the most difference. Apprarently, you're missing out on the immunity of power supply modulation, IM3 inter-modulation products, THD with relation to power supply stability, freq response linearity etc. Most of which can be measured using a good audio SA. Even the best DACs would suffer if the low voltage input power supply is dirty and suffers from external modulation. This would result in direct modulation of the output analog signal. So while the quality of DAC is important, its more important to ensure that the power supply of the DVD is stable if u intend to use DVDP's analog audio out. Thats where flagship DVDPs shine the brightest here.

 

Yup. I will take your advice in not spending too much. Actually all I intend is to get a simple player with good compatibility. Just that I like to find out about everything that is available, the technologies .. thus I'm afraid I may have give everyone the idea that I'm eyeing something big ? haha

 

Give those players a test drive. Who knows, the player with the best DACs might well come with the worst power supply stability.

 

Good luck!

 

Jag..... great explanation ;) The DACs build inside the dvdp will never as good as CD player except higher end of dvdp and I would advise not use for CD listening, you will get dissapointed if you partner it with good speaker or amp.

[timothychan]

My Dad bouught the Pioneer already.. since its audio is reputated to be better than Samsung.

 

Not fanatastic, but above average for something of this price. Quite satisfied with the sound put through my stereo set. I benchmarked it against my ADC hi-fi cd player and felt that the dynamics were accurate enough, except that certain harmonics were missing.

 

The Virtual Surround by SRS featured on the set although not the most intelligent thing, made audio more interesting as compared to pure stereo.

 

I've learnt alot. Thanks for an informative post.

 

Haha, for now, I'm sticking to this setup :)

 

[bagegar]

My colleague just bought a Pioneer 355 at $260 from ALi San in People's Park Complex.

[timothychan]

Thats a steal ...

I got it at 20 dollars more.