Jag Posted January 9, 2005 Posted January 9, 2005 Eh phil, Since I'm coming over tomorrow, I might as well set the entire thing for you lah. I must warn that it might take us well into the night to setup your system right. You have avia or DVE? You have camera tripod too?
Phil1624705739 Posted January 9, 2005 Posted January 9, 2005 Boyz , it is too much liao . Why don you put the crossover to disable, just use your pre to do it , tune to 11o'clock as suggeted by Jag , filter at 20hz so you have more power on 20hz and above . Btw , in a small room , even set at 20hz , u can still get freq response lower than that but only less power . Errr?? Why set 20hz?? This baby is suppose to pump at 16hz what? Already on 11 o'clock now.. As for the crossover. I got a limitation here.. my processor crossover is fixed at 100hz.. thats why I'm also using the filter to help me blend the sub. Jag, can I cal with the front? My center bass response is not as good as the front floorstanders. Wouldn't that result in a boom when the response is applied to the front. Phil
Phil1624705739 Posted January 9, 2005 Posted January 9, 2005 Eh phil, Since I'm coming over tomorrow, I might as well set the entire thing for you lah. I must warn that it might take us well into the night to setup your system right. You have avia or DVE? You have camera tripod too? Yes SIR... AVIA, cam tripod, SPL are all ready... maybe u wanna bring your analog SPL... lagi better bring all your barang lar.. Phil
Jag Posted January 9, 2005 Posted January 9, 2005 Yes SIR... AVIA, cam tripod, SPL are all ready... maybe u wanna bring your analog SPL... lagi better bring all your barang lar.. Phil I'm going to have to bring down all the barang barang anyway. But I just making sure I can save as much weight by not bringing those things that you already have. Ok, will need 2 power plugs to plug in my equipment too. By the way, I assume you are able to play my HT demo DVD as well as the pj showcase DVD? I will EQ your setup to get the most of the sub you should get. No compromises where possible. Willl give you aggressive settings, and flat if got enough time. I cal with ctr because 95% of movies come out thru the center. Calibrating the L & R have to be played by ear on the exact course of action. There is no such thing as step-by-step intructions when it comes to full-fledged EQ-ing. Only calibrating with RTAs will give you a better idea of what is happening.
Phil1624705739 Posted January 9, 2005 Posted January 9, 2005 Set at 20hz so u have more power on 20hz and above and can go louder . IMO , u can cali with the front but there is still tendency your front left mid is higher than the right front mid freq only it will not sound boomy liao if combine with the sub . Unbalance is unbalance , very hard to cure . I see... thats how we use the SS filter? Cool... What is this front left or right mid?? Are you saying the front left speaker mid frequency is higher than the right? Anyway, thanks guys for enlightening me on SVS kind of setting. Weird... but interesting. Time to go to bed.. check the reply tomorrow. Phil
Phil1624705739 Posted January 9, 2005 Posted January 9, 2005 I'm going to have to bring down all the barang barang anyway. But I just making sure I can save as much weight by not bringing those things that you already have. Ok, will need 2 power plugs to plug in my equipment too. By the way, I assume you are able to play my HT demo DVD as well as the pj showcase DVD? I will EQ your setup to get the most of the sub you should get. No compromises where possible. Willl give you aggressive settings, and flat if got enough time. I cal with ctr because 95% of movies come out thru the center. Calibrating the L & R have to be played by ear on the exact course of action. There is no such thing as step-by-step intructions when it comes to full-fledged EQ-ing. Only calibrating with RTAs will give you a better idea of what is happening. Last reply for its ZZZZ time. No problem on the power point & your DVDs. Give me a call before you head for my place. Hopefully I got more equipment to cut down your load. Thanks for dropping by. Phil
Jag Posted January 9, 2005 Posted January 9, 2005 Hehe , after u have BFD ur sub (with or without front), play a 45hz tone , go to the front right and left sorner , measure the db level wwith SPL meter and u know wat i mean by unbalance liao . Hi Jason, Its very normal to have different SPL levels in different parts of the room. Its due to the way bass cancels itself in some parts of the room, and it reinforces itself in other parts parts of the room. Even the way we hold the SLP meter will change the SPL reading. Bass notes (not just 45hz) will measure different SPLs in different places of the room.This is the science of sound. A bass tone will definately measure differently nearer to the sub, near corners and even to the left and right ear positions. Confirm the 45hz tone will definately have different SPLs at different parts of the room. This is very normal and no room will ever have 45hz (or other freq) tone at the same SPL everywhere in the room. No one has ever setup a room/system that will measure 45hz equally loud in every part of the room because this is impossible. Even my acoustician consultant confirms this. So, every room will have this problem, regardless of the size or shape of the room. Yes, more subs is beneficial to have less SPLs variations in a room, but the laws of physics will always make sure that different parts of the room will always have different SPL. It will be like this at 20hz, 40hz and almost every other frequency as far as we can measure on a SPL meter. Room treatments can not solve this. EQ also cannot solve this. If cannot understand what I'm saying, then these 2 articles by Dr. Floyd Toole (Vice President Acoustical Engineering, Harman International Industries, Inc.) will help explain. http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/Loudspeakers&RoomsPt3.pdf http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf
muscular27 Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 That is good readin material here. So rest my paranoia. Thanks jaggy.
Jag Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Actually, that 50hz diff can be resolved by shifting the head 1 foot to the left ro right. ;D Of course, the other way is to invest in more subs to do the same thing.
Phil1624705739 Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 One thing at a time.. one eliminate the BO then slowly tweak. That is my main concern right now.. ain't going to bust my new toy lar.. Phil
hifi_enthusiast Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 I'm interested to know how come Phil has to set his gain to 1 pm since his room is relatively small.... waiting for Jag's report :)
tsammyc Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Report? I guess Jag was serious about late into the night
Phil1624705739 Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Report? I guess Jag was serious about late into the night LATEST UPDATE!!! I must say its nothing short of an enlightening & breath taking experience.. Jag da pro man... Learnt quite a lot of new stuff tonight. Poor Jag just left around 11.45. The bottoming out is resolved. Now my sub is at 12 o'clock & no BO encountered during the stress test. We did however attenuate the super low frequency for a less aggressive curve. As for e REL vs SVS mico-shootout. Sad to say, the REL don't even come close. My previous experience of measuring 90++ dB at 16hz is actually a combination of 16hz & 60hz. THD is totally out.. SVS on the other hand can still maintain 10% THD with nominal distortion. Figures aside.. the SVS definitely can go lower & louder.. no doubt about it. The REL still does an admirable job but at 32hz & above. I'm sold for the SVS power.. now that my system is dial in.. its time to do more listening in both stereo & surround. Will keep you guys posted on my final verdict on whether SVS can make it for stereo. Last but not least... thanks a million Jag. Own you & Sam a proper dinner... Maybe we can arrange for one in the next future. P.S ~ Sam, we hit 108dB at 16/20hz. Jag said 115dB is not a prob but we didn't try it out. Phil
Jag Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 I even spotted peaks of 120+dBs occasionally, Too tired now to report my findings, but a few interesting points were noted in phil's setup. Also very interesting graphs and THD/SPL shootouts of the REL and SVS. Its not a ideal shootout, but good enough to illustrate the basic differences between these subs. Stay tuned tomorrow.
Phil1624705739 Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Another update! I just bottom out e SVS again! hehe... If anyone wanna test their sub.. I found the perfect sub killer disc. "The Incredibles" chapter 8. when the ruin of the plane crashed into the water!!! I bet I'm hitting 110++ dB. Jag, we didn't managed to BO the sub because we forget to set the gain at +6 for DTS. Anyway, the problem is gone when I set the volume lower. Guess I'm listening too loud. Going to tone down from now on. When we are playing the demo from Jag's disc. We are consistently hitting 100++dB. Oh.. BTW, my wife march in & complain "The whole house is shaking u know!!!" Phil
Jag Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Of course lah. But don't forget the DTS track on the D5 incredibles is fake one, so no point taking that as a reference for any test. The pirates are notorious to set the DTS way too loud, because thats their gimmick. Still, setting the sub gain to +6dB increases chances of bottom outs drastically. So, if the sub is churning out 120dBs, setting the DTS bass 6dB louder is asking the sub to produce 126dB! :o This all on top of the already hot DTS soundtrack the pirates tend to encode. Confirm recipie for bottom outs and hearing loss. (FYI, you need to run dual subs just to get the bass to run 6dB hotter without bottoming out. Asking 1 single sub to do the duties of dual subs is just asking for trouble lah) Phil, I can see you like your bass LOUD. But listen to my advise: Re-locate the sub to the rear corner of your room, re-cal/re-EQ and see how it goes. It may be better, it may be worse, but its worth a try....
Phil1624705739 Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Of course lah. But don't forget the DTS track on the D5 incredibles is fake one, so no point taking that as a reference for any test. The pirates are notorious to set the DTS way too loud, because thats their gimmick. Still, setting the sub gain to +6dB increases chances of bottom outs drastically. So, if the sub is churning out 120dBs, setting the DTS bass 6dB louder is asking the sub to produce 126dB! :o This all on top of the already hot DTS soundtrack the pirates tend to encode. Confirm recipie for bottom outs and hearing loss. (FYI, you need to run dual subs just to get the bass to run 6dB hotter without bottoming out. Asking 1 single sub to do the duties of dual subs is just asking for trouble lah) Phil, I can see you like your bass LOUD. But listen to my advise: Re-locate the sub to the rear corner of your room, re-cal/re-EQ and see how it goes. It may be better, it may be worse, but its worth a try.... Need to re-educate myself to listen at more "normal" level before I become fully deaf. Now I got high frequency hearing lost thanks to SAF. Ain't going to screw up the rest or I can kiss goodbye to my ears & my HT. I don't mind relocating the sub. But I dread the idea of losing your hardwork calibration. As you have illustrated, the SPL way of measurement is far from being accurate. I might just shift it over there for a trial run but not a permanent basis. I prefer a properly calibrated sub rather than a wild & powerful one. Phil
Guest jonlee Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 knn Phil...u use D5 and kpkb that ur precious BO... ;D wah...SPL measurement very incurrate one huh? guess I need to go buy the mike and mike amp next month after collecting my bonus liao. :P Of course lah. But don't forget the DTS track on the D5 incredibles is fake one, so no point taking that as a reference for any test. The pirates are notorious to set the DTS way too loud, because thats their gimmick.
Phil1624705739 Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 knn Phil...u use D5 and kpkb that ur precious BO... ;D wah...SPL measurement very incurrate one huh? guess I need to go buy the mike and mike amp next month after collecting my bonus liao. :P Wah... I thought u don't swear one.. hehe... Stress test mah... SPL is only good for measuring volume.. but what contribute the volume is the big question mark. Would be better if we have a spectrum analyser to see what is being output by our sub & speaker. I do have an old Marantz GEQ with built-in mike & spectrum analyser. Maybe try to fool around with it & see whether it is accurate. Poor man solution. Go get the mike, mike amp & software if you are seriously crazy about tunning. Any idea where we can loan such equipment? Phil
Guest lyradwong Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 I'm sold for the SVS power.. now that my system is dial in.. its time to do more listening in both stereo & surround. Will keep you guys posted on my final verdict on whether SVS can make it for stereo. Hi Phil, can't wait to know about this. I will look out for your post. :)
Jag Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 My advise for phil is to relocate this sub elsewhere. Where his SVS is positioned now is at a slight disadvantage as compared to the corner placement of the REL. So far, 16-46+ SVS sounds good in both music and movies, PROVIDED its calibrated properly.
Phil1624705739 Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 Hi Phil, can't wait to know about this. I will look out for your post. :) Interested in my verdict on SVS stereo performance?? Its going to take a while to adjust myself from the REL to SVS kind of bass. My experience of Jag's twin tower for that short 4 hours is pretty good. Tight & low, relatively fast too... For my own even shorter experience yesterday evening.. all I can say is it sounds different. Tight... can't comment much already.. need to spend more time listening to be fair for my rubbish bin. Phil
Guest jonlee Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 Which Army personnel doesn't? ;D ;D ;D Wah... I thought u don't swear one.. hehe... Phil
tsammyc Posted January 11, 2005 Posted January 11, 2005 If Phil relocates his sub, he might go deaf ;D Phil, We still don't know exactly what happened i.e., why was your sub bottoming out so much without the BFD and what did you do to prevent it from bottoming out ???
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