Another BFD Success

[tsammyc]

This might not be much comfort for Phil, but one reason to get two SVS is that you can still enjoy your HT with one of them while waiting for another driver to arrive for the other from SVS

[Phil1624705739]

This might not be much comfort for Phil, but one reason to get two SVS is that you can still enjoy your HT with one of them while waiting for another driver to arrive for the other from SVS

 

No point going for 2 SVS if 1 of them already bottom out isn't it? Its bottoming out even at moderate level without EQ. This is weird... very very weird.

 

Phil

[Jag]

Is it only the PB-10 that has an amp limiter?

 

I have a suspicion that the PB12U/2 also have got limiters in them from previous calibration experiences, but I can't confirm.

 

The problem is with limiters, we may not know the sub is working dangerously until its too late.

[Phil1624705739]

I have a suspicion that the PB12U/2 also have got limiters in them from previous calibration experiences, but I can't confirm.

 

The problem is with limiters, we may not know the sub is working dangerously until its too late.

 

Jag, any suggestion what could be the problem here?? Remember I get bottom out without the EQing.

 

Phil

[Jag]

 

 

Phil, I recommend a less agressive curve for your case. If you like the feel of the raw power and don't want to settle for a tamer curve, run dual 16-46+s.

 

There is no problem with the BFD or sub. Normally, when I do EQ-ing, I have take the listener's normal listening volume preferences into account when doing the EQ-ing to decide the degree of agressiveness.

 

Not every sub can be equally aggressive, even thou its the same sub. Adding another SVS will improve things because the 2nd sub increases headroom. i.e. 2 subs can be driven gently to achieve the same SPl as a single sub driven hard.

 

Bring down the aggressiveness. The last time when I had 1 sub, my slope gradient was no where as aggressive as yours.

 

[Phil1624705739]

 

Phil, I recommend a less agressive curve for your case. If you like the feel of the raw power and don't want to settle for a tamer curve, run dual 16-46+s.

 

There is no problem with the BFD or sub. Normally, when I do EQ-ing, I have take the listener's normal listening volume preferences into account when doing the EQ-ing to decide the degree of agressiveness.

 

Not every sub can be equally aggressive, even thou its the same sub. Adding another SVS will improve things because the 2nd sub increases headroom. i.e. 2 subs can be driven gently to achieve the same SPl as a single sub driven hard.

 

Bring down the aggressiveness. The last time when I had 1 sub, my slope gradient was no where as aggressive as yours.

 

 

Hmmm... but how come the without EQ response is so aggressive on the 1st place?

 

Phil

[Jag]

Hmmm... but how come the without EQ response is so aggressive on the 1st place?

 

Phil

 

The response is naturally aggressive because of room gain. Yes, the room actually amplifies infrasonics more than mid/upper bass. But that does not mean its a free lunch.

 

Bypass the BFD and chances are, the sub will be very much louder than the mains.

[Guest jonlee]

Phil...ur filter set to 16 or 12 Hz?  Make sure it is at 16 as 12 will almost 100% confirm bottoming out in many scenes.

 

My 16-46 also bottom out WITH or WITHOUT BFD if I played the Nemo Darlia scene at ref-3db.  Jag had to add a -3db peak reduction in my yammie to prevent it from bottoming out.

 

Currently, I have increased the peak reduction to -5db as I have upped the svs gain after Jag's calibration.  So far so good.  No more bottoming out after I switched back to 16 Hz (after kenna serious bottoming out at 12Hz with Infernal Affairs).

[Jag]

Hmmm, jonlee reminded me more changes I did to his system than I could recall.

 

There really isn't much advantage to setting to 12hz tune for movies, unless we realise the 12hz tradeoffs.

 

The good thing about yammy amps is their peak limiters. Becareful with 16hz tune subwoofers. They can dive to the lowest depths of all SVS subs, but they require the driver to move further than all the SVS subs to reproduce 16hz with force. This brings the sub very close to the edge, closer than the other SVS'es put together.

 

 

[Phil1624705739]

Phil...ur filter set to 16 or 12 Hz?  Make sure it is at 16 as 12 will almost 100% confirm bottoming out in many scenes.

 

My 16-46 also bottom out WITH or WITHOUT BFD if I played the Nemo Darlia scene at ref-3db.  Jag had to add a -3db peak reduction in my yammie to prevent it from bottoming out.

 

Currently, I have increased the peak reduction to -5db as I have upped the svs gain after Jag's calibration.  So far so good.  No more bottoming out after I switched back to 16 Hz (after kenna serious bottoming out at 12Hz with Infernal Affairs).

 

The SS filter are at 16hz.

 

Reference as in 85dB? I don't think I'm running at reference. I checked my volume using test tone & it register only 72dB on my SPL.

 

I'm not feeling comfortable now.. my point is even without EQing.. why the 16-46 can bottom out so easily. Plus could the 16-46 was designed with such aggressive response which make it prone to bottoming out? My previous assumption is my room mode is causing the high gain at low frequency.

 

Phil

[Jag]

ok, with the BFD bypassed, how high is your sub gain knob turned to? 12 o'clock?

 

Also, which scene are you referring to that consistently bottoms out?

 

[Phil1624705739]

ok, with the BFD bypassed, how high is your sub gain knob turned to? 12 o'clock?

 

Also, which scene are you referring to that consistently bottoms out?

 

 

Currently at 1 o'clock or slightly more than 50% gain.

 

The LOTR dragon scene. When it first appear with the faceless thingee.. & the first flap of the wing.

 

Phil

[Jag]

wah 1 o'clock ah?........... er, phil, its a bit too high lah. You definately are way overdriving the sub, even without the BFD.

 

Mine are between 10.30 and 11am. Any sub with that high gain will definately run into problems. Even thou the gain knob can go all the way, I find that the PC+ subs are most comfortable at 11am.

 

I also can see you like your infrasonics too  ;)

[Phil1624705739]

wah 1 o'clock ah?........... er, phil, its a bit too high lah. You definately are way overdriving the sub, even without the BFD.

 

Mine are between 10.30 and 11am. Any sub with that high gain will definately run into problems. Even thou the gain knob can go all the way, I find that the PC+ subs are most comfortable at 11am.

 

I also can see you like your infrasonics too  ;)

 

Har? 1 o'clock too high?? Oh my god.. then how???

 

Now my test tone indicate my sub is around 3dB lower than the rest leh.. thats why I jack it up to 1 o'clock lar?? If its high then 5 o'clock or 100% is instead suicide? How to balance my sub & e rest than?

 

BTW, my REL is at 9 oclock or 75% gain wor. It does comes with a limiter aka ABC thingee lar.

 

Phil

[Guest jonlee]

phil...1 o'clock very high leh! Mine is at 11 o'clock.

 

See whether ur rotel has a bass peak limiter (my yammie and my old marantz have it).  Put in -3db and that should resolve the BO.  I've just played TTT yesterday at ref -5 db ... the bass very shoik...no bottoming out.

 

My BFDed SVS is matched to the mains.

 

Currently at 1 o'clock or slightly more than 50% gain.

 

The LOTR dragon scene. When it first appear with the faceless thingee.. & the first flap of the wing.

 

Phil

[Guest jonlee]

there is a solution call dual 16-46 PC+   ;D  ;D  ;D

 

alternative, fix ur 16-46 at 11 o'clock (the third white mark, ur are currently at the fifth) and  lower ur speakers by 3db or more lah!

 

Ur REL doesn't go low after 20Hz...that's why it will not bottom out even at high gain.  16-46...heeheehee...different story.

 

Use Nemo Darlia as the BO test for sub at the loudest volume u will usually watch ur dvd at.

 

Har? 1 o'clock too high?? Oh my god.. then how???

 

Now my test tone indicate my sub is around 3dB lower than the rest leh.. thats why I jack it up to 1 o'clock lar?? If its high then 5 o'clock or 100% is instead suicide? How to balance my sub & e rest than?

 

BTW, my REL is at 9 oclock or 75% gain wor. It does comes with a limiter aka ABC thingee lar.

 

Phil

[Jag]

100% is suicide!

 

Even bobafett's PB12U/2 when into protection mode at 1pm if the sub was too aggressive.

 

Still, 1pm is very high.

 

Phil, which test-tone did you use that indicates the sub is 3dB lower than the mains?

[Phil1624705739]

phil...1 o'clock very high leh! Mine is at 11 o'clock.

 

See whether ur rotel has a bass peak limiter (my yammie and my old marantz have it).  Put in -3db and that should resolve the BO.  I've just played TTT yesterday at ref -5 db ... the bass very shoik...no bottoming out.

 

My BFDed SVS is matched to the mains.

 

 

Hope we are talking on the same frequency regarding the clock thingee..

 

 

So is it too much?? Is my setting a receipt for self destruction.

 

Phil

[Phil1624705739]

Phil , reposition your sub . Btw , u cannot get all the freqs balance using 1 sub , or even 2 subs . I think now you have serious problem on unbalance freq on mid . Use your SPL meter and you will find 32,36,40,45hz are more on the left , then slowly decend the db to the right . So , that means there should be a super dip on mid bass on a right spot . Maybe 40hz is ok only . Try reposition your sub to the back center and see if it solve this problem . BFD can give a a smooth freq responese on a sweet spot only , but not the front stage .However , it is no doubt that you cannot balance all the freq even on big rectangle hall using 1 sub even at a good position. Hall ht will not feel the resonant easily , but not for a small room.Only more subs can excite all the room modes evenly , I feel .Imo , 4 subs on all mid walls should do the job nicely . If u add db on 50hz , there will be possibilty a huge resonant on a corner too and one side of your ear will be affected/pressurize only. Still remember my ht presurrize your both ears and u complaining? That is the 50hz freq balancing using 2 subs . The most difficult freq to tackle coz this freq will give you resonant easily and pressure your ears .

 

 

Jason, chim!! Need sometime to digest..

 

Phil

[Phil1624705739]

100% is suicide!

 

Even bobafett's PB12U/2 when into protection mode at 1pm if the sub was too aggressive.

 

Still, 1pm is very high.

 

Phil, which test-tone did you use that indicates the sub is 3dB lower than the mains?

 

Okie okie.. e 1st time I set it up is at 12 o'clock is that suicide too?? At that setting I don't remember hearing any BO.

 

The test tone from my processor.

 

Phil

[Jag]

confirm recipie for destruction lah.

 

My 16-46+ was only at 11am when I still was running 1 sub.

 

BTW, I would disable the x-over.

[Phil1624705739]

Another question... before I setup my BFD.. I set my sub gain at +2 & my SVS gain at 11.30 to 12 o'clock. Now I set the gain to 0 & to 1 o'clock. Could that be the problem? Am I driving the SVS amp too hard?

 

Phil

[Phil1624705739]

confirm recipie for destruction lah.

 

My 16-46+ was only at 11am when I still was running 1 sub.

 

BTW, I would disable the x-over.

 

DUH!!! Ok I surrender.. now running 11 o'clock!  :'(

 

I use the crossover to smoothen e response instead of using the BFD lor..  make life much easier.

 

Phil

[Jag]

Okie okie.. e 1st time I set it up is at 12 o'clock is that suicide too?? At that setting I don't remember hearing any BO.

 

The test tone from my processor.

 

Phil

 

Test tone from processor buay zhun one. I always avoid the processor test-tone coz it does not calibrate the entire audio chain from DVDP to sepakers.

 

Use Avia/DVE for channel matching the LCR, then use my cal cd for splcing the sub onto the center channel. Once the sub is spliced onto the center channel, it will be more or less spliced onto the L and  (assuming the LCR are well matched)

[Phil1624705739]

I get similar response too without BFD . Try level the 20 to 32hz and it should solve your problem .

 

Jason, you recommend bringing down the 20 to 32hz instead? Like making the curve less aggressive right?

 

Phil