Marantz AV Owners Thread

[Guest]

@betty boop unfortunately, it will take both Marantz and Dirac to resolve problems because there is interaction between firmware and software.

 

As for pricing, yes it is $$$$.  Would not surprise me if take up rate is low..

[TurboJLo]

Just to add some different into to this thread I have been happily tuning away with Dirac on my AV 10/AMP 10 combo since it came out. Learning the ins and outs of how it works.

 

My setup is 7.1.4 in a dedicated acoustically treated home theater. Speakers are all Focal (Sopra No2s + Sopra Center,  4x 301s side/rear and 4x300 ICA6 ceiling for Atmos) plus a Rythmik G25HP sub.

 

The Sopra No2s are bridged to 400wpc on the AMP 10 and the rest of the speakers are 200wpc. I did try bridging the Sopra Center since I had extra amp channels to play with but it ended up making the Center overpowered in my setup and I was at the -12db limit of DIRAC volume calibration to get it in line with my other speakers. Dropping it to a single amp channel was the solution.

 

I had been using Audyssey previously with a Marantz unit since 2018 and went from the $20 iPad version to the $200 Windows software when it became available. While the Windows version was better it didn't offer THAT much different than the iPad, it was just really easy to use and the application itself wasn't a very impressive piece of software. It was MUCH better to be able to edit the curves on a PC with a mouse, but aside from that it didn't offer much over the iPad and it STILL has the speed of sound error (I believe that was baked into the Audyssey hardware) but at least the PC app automatically corrects for that. Dirac might be buggy now, but at least they can fix that. Audyssey NEVER fixed that and it bothers me to this day. If they made that GROSS of an error for something mankind has known since 1738 what other mistakes are baked into their code/hardware?

 

I LOVE DIRAC by comparison. The resulting sound is SO much better to me.  Soundstage, phantom center channel(in 2ch), better separation of instruments, more 3D wrap around (again 2ch) and better SQ overall. Even from my very first tune where I didn't even understand everything and didn't have the right mic stand for my UMIK. It only got better with time and experience.

 

Yes I have encountered a few bugs, but nothing horrific. The worst was that it switched on its own without me noticing to a prior tune in one of the settings slots. Easy enough to work around this by just running only a single tune (for now). The others were one time I couldn't get the tune to save(to the AV 10) I had to save to PC and then restore it and load it again that way. I also had some issues saving to the AV 10 where it would tell me the AV 10 was "not in a state to receive the file" this can be fixed by just logging into he AV 10 web interface and power cycling the unit.

 

It's not perfect, but the resulting sound is incredible and it is much more powerful than Audyssey and when you compare $200 (locked to a single unit) to $349 I don't feel the price jump is out of proportion to what you get. For me the $200 for Audyssey is the rip off for the tool/software you get. I am very happy with the DIRAC software for far, I am sure they will fix the bugs and look forward to adding the BC and ART modules in the future which should offer an even greater experience.

 

Also to touch on some other comments I've seen here:

 

AV 10 does get warm but does not need cooling. The AMP 10 DOES!

The AV 10 is the top most unit in my rack and there is nothing above it/covering it.

For the AMP 10 I put an AC Infinity AIRCOM T8 on top and it works wonderfully. Helps to put some weather stripping (1/4" thick or the same size as the feet) linking the feet on the front and the two sides to create a "seal" that allows it to fully draw air in through the amp vents. When the T8 is running you can feel air flowing in from the side vents of the AMP 10. Running it in smart mode and it only every uses the first or second fan speed and is silent. 

 

The AMP 10 is incredible. I replaced 3 amps with it, one of which was a Bob Carver Sunfire Signature Grand II (425wpc) that I have had for years and LOVED. I didn't expect a Class D amp to sound this good and thought I would end up keeping the Sunfire for the front 3 channels but the AMP 10 sounds better. If you are thinking about the AMP 10 just get it. You won't be disappointed and the flexibility with the bi-amp/bridge modes and 16 channels is unparalleled in a single unit.

 

The SQ that I am getting out of this AV 10/AMP 10/ DIRAC combo has far exceeded my expectations. I never thought I would say that $14,000 + DIRAC licensing + UMIK costs is a good deal but for everything you get out of these two it really is. I prefer to keep things simple (KISS) rather than have tons of gear and cables and for me this minimalist solution ticks every box and then some for my 2 channel music and multi channel Atmos movie needs.

 

Edit: (also sorry for the length of this post!)

I also left out one thing that really surprised me on the DIRAC tune over Audyssey. I took DIRAC claims as marketing speak/hype but I have to admit I hear them. This mixed phase impulse response they talk about just sounding like marketing crap to me until I tuned and hear it first hand...I didn't even know what they "claimed" until I saw a video about DIRAC afterwards saying clarity, tighter bass and bass timing, improved sound stage and "phantom" center/sweet spot. I got all of this on my very first tune which I don't even consider a "real" tune because I was waiting for a new mic stand to arrive and I was still learning the DIRAC interface and didn't even know about the advance options in the frequency filter editor. 

 

But change in sound that REALLY surprised me was that I have a dedicated home theater with acoustic treatment and it changed the sound of my gear in my room without changing my gear or my room. My room sounds bigger and fuller with more 3D wrap around and the room changes with the music. For example if the recording was in a larger hall I hear reverb and echo accordingly. And this is not a gimmick or artificial. It sounds AMAZING.

 

They are doing something I don't understand behind the scenes with this impulse response tuning and/or other "magic" if you will that simply works. I did not expect this going into this. I was just hoping for a better Audyssey if I am honest. 

 

If DIRAC is able to do all this with the base tuning software I am really really EXCITED for the BC and ART modules to come out! 

Audyssey tuning NEVER did anything like this for me.

 

I am really looking forward to others getting their tunes and posting their experiences because I think you will all be as surprised as I am.

Edited March 19, 2023 by TurboJLo

[paulie83]

10 hours ago, TurboJLo said:

Speakers are all Focal (Sopra No2s + Sopra Center,  4x 301s side/rear and 4x300 ICA6 ceiling for Atmos)

 

Must sound absolutely awesome. The Sopra 2, matching centre and Surrounds are my end game setup.

[Guest]

@TurboJLo thank you for your extensive and informative post. It is not often that someone has experienced both Audyssey and Dirac Live. Good to read that you are so enthusiastic about Dirac Live. A common complaint is the lack of bass.  If this becomes a problem for you, you can use different curves, example here (also good article).

https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-2/

 

Marantz is supposed to be releasing the option for BC next year, but there is doubt on whether the hardware (Marantz, Arcam, JBL etc) is capable of running ART.

 

Curious whether both Audyssey and Dirac Live can "live" side and if it is possible to switch from one to another for a comparison.

[TurboJLo]

Bummer if that is true about ART. I was really looking forward to that (in the far future of course). Any chance you have a link to more information about the hardware Marantz is lacking in the AV 10?

 

As for bass the G25HP puts out tremendous bass (like nothing I've heard before it in terms of subsonic combined with tight/controlled/accurate bass) and the Focals output plenty of bass for my room size (300 sq ft) so if DIRAC has a lack of bass I am not aware of it.

 

Hard for me to compare untuned bass to DIRAC as my room is boosting frequencies in the 30-40hz and 60-100hz areas so the bass always gets pulled out when tuned (with either Audyssey or DIRAC) but what remains with DIRAC is super tight and time aligned perfectly with the Focals in a way that I have never experienced before with anything including Audyssey. I lack the words to describe it but the timing and integration of the sub with the left and right is there in a very tangible and seamless way that just improves the sound quality. 

[cwt]

3 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Curious whether both Audyssey and Dirac Live can "live" side and if it is possible to switch from one to another for a comparison.

Gene asked the right question snoop ;  

Quote

 

Q: Could one conceivable run DIRAC and Audyssey, store them in different presets to do A/B comparisons?

A: Yes, each Denon and Marantz AVR supports “Speaker Preset” function where  you can store up to 2 calibration results on the AVR and switch between these two from the AVR’s “Option” menu.  For example:

“Speaker Preset 1” = Audyssey

“Speaker Preset 2” = Dirac Live

The Speaker Preset function was originally developed to allow you to store two separate speaker configuration and/or Audyssey calibration results easily on the AVR, without using the Audyssey app or a USB thumb drive to rewrite the AVR’s setting.  

 

Reminds me of a lot of Emo customers that wanted multiple presets ie one for movies  another for music and even one for bass shaker settups - they got 2 

Edited March 20, 2023 by cwt

[Guest]

5 hours ago, TurboJLo said:

Bummer if that is true about ART. I was really looking forward to that (in the far future of course). Any chance you have a link to more information about the hardware Marantz is lacking in the AV 10?

There is nothing definitive about the AV10, but ART was discussed in this thread

Marc, in particular, was saying that only Storm Audio had the hardware to run ART.  Have to wait for the exclusive 6 months for Storm to expire before we really know...

[betty boop]

marantz av10 has measured up very well on the audioholics test bench...

 

https://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews/marantz-av-10-15.4ch-processor

 

"The Marantz AV 10 produced excellent to class leading measurements on our bench test. The AV 10 has oodles of low noise drive to cleanly run any amplifier into clipping without ever being the source of distortion. Some of the bass management features like directional bass and LFE bass routing set the AV 10 in a class by itself at this price point.

Stay tuned for my bench test results of the matching Marantz Amp 10 16CH amplifier next."

[TurboJLo]

Great review from Audioholics above. And another more "local" great review to add to the list:

 

https://www.stereonet.com/reviews/marantz-av10-amp10-av-processor-and-amplifier-review

 

A lot of these comments from Tony echo everything I've experienced myself:

 

"Final voicing was done by Marantz’s Sound Master Yoshinori Ogata, who set out to get an expansive soundstage with an excellent sense of width, depth, and height – plus a high level of focus and detail, with a fast and tight bass."

 

"Wonderfully transparent and detailed, they can reveal the finest detail and breathe new life into recordings. They pair to produce a wide, open soundstage with a fine sense of height, depth, and width. Refined as they are, though, they know when it’s time to put on the gloves. The AMP10 produces a seemingly endless amount of power, with powerful, lightning-fast dynamics. This is underpinned with fast and punchy bass that brings a cinema-like level of performance into the home."

 

"There’s an undeniable musicality to this pair that’s both distinctly Marantz, yet unlike any other Marantz that I’ve listened to. Musically pleasing as Marantz components can be, I sometimes find them a little fuzzy, yet I had no such misgivings with the AV10 and AMP10. There’s a wonderful transparency to the sound that is both revealing, yet musical."

 

"It produces a massive, open soundstage with a very tangible sense of depth and height."

 

 

Now that I've had my AV10/AMP10 combo for some time and spent hours listening I love it even more than after my initial impression. Can't get over how good these two sound paired together and cannot believe that Class D can sound like this! 

 

Spending more time with the system I am really REALLY curious about DIRAC ART because just the basic DIRAC Live has changed my room. DIRAC Live causes my room to disappear and take the size of the artist/performance/recording in ways that I NEVER experienced before with the same music. Yes my theater room is treated already so I realize that the magic they are promising with ART is that you don't need to treat the room at all, but I am just blown away with how good DIRAC Live sounds in my setup and how amazing my entire system sounds with the AV10/AMP10.

 

If the two professional reviews above aren't enough to convince you or you think they are "paid" to praise the units trust me when I say if you are considering these units just get them and thank me later. And if you are only considering the AV10 and feel you already have great amps I strongly suggest you at least demo the AMP10 with the AV10 to hear the synergy. It just might surprise you. It completely surprised me and blew away my Bob Carver Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature II with 425wpc which I thought I would hold on to for the rest of my life.

[cwt]

Interesting measurements from Gene ; this av10 will drive anything with its 12v pre amp level ;not just 4v like many . The phase splitter mention that gives 6v rms output confirms that Marantz xlrs are single ended not  dual differential like the earlier avc1hd .

 

This is sensible as it keeps the circuitry cost down and enables the best ics to be used like the griffin light dsp soc 

[betty boop]

13 hours ago, TurboJLo said:

if you are considering these units just get them and thank me later. And if you are only considering the AV10 and feel you already have great amps I strongly suggest you at least demo the AMP10 with the AV10 to hear the synergy. It just might surprise you. It completely surprised me and blew away my Bob Carver Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature II with 425wpc which I thought I would hold on to for the rest of my life.

 

i did take a bit of a leap and been pretty impressed ! I went for the combo too and thats given i did indeed "have great amps" and the amp10 has been a combo with the av10 i am glad i have done with...

 

13 hours ago, TurboJLo said:

Now that I've had my AV10/AMP10 combo for some time and spent hours listening I love it even more than after my initial impression. Can't get over how good these two sound paired together and cannot believe that Class D can sound like this! 

 

I am not surprised with the amp10 (be interesting how gene finds it measuring) however given it is basically 8 x 2ch modules their premium 2ch range its no wonder it sounds so good i think  

 

13 hours ago, TurboJLo said:

Spending more time with the system I am really REALLY curious about DIRAC ART because just the basic DIRAC Live has changed my room. DIRAC Live causes my room to disappear and take the size of the artist/performance/recording in ways that I NEVER experienced before with the same music. Yes my theater room is treated already so I realize that the magic they are promising with ART is that you don't need to treat the room at all, but I am just blown away with how good DIRAC Live sounds in my setup and how amazing my entire system sounds with the AV10/AMP10.

 

good to hear of your experience... i take things with Art "don't need to treat the room" with major grains of salt as room eq can only ever make best of things rather than change the room as such. i'll get to dirac at some stage, likely when the true multi sub comes along... in no rush as the combo is pure magic as is  

[betty boop]

3 hours ago, cwt said:

This is sensible as it keeps the circuitry cost down and enables the best ics to be used like the griffin light dsp soc 

its excellent they are getting the results they are... as a prior avp-a1hd owner, i remember gene very impressed by that too. he seems similar enthused with this marantz combo  i dont miss the true balanced bit as long as performance is there and it is with these

[betty boop]

it seems gene has done some updates to his published test reports and now feels the av10 is even better than he thought...

 

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/marantz-av-10-15-4ch-av-processor-bench-test-results.127208/page-3#post-1600137

 

I see he has his review first impression as "gotta have it" so obviously a bit enthused with the thing  

 

 https://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews/marantz-av-10-15.4ch-processor

[cwt]

21 hours ago, betty boop said:

its excellent they are getting the results they are... as a prior avp-a1hd owner, i remember gene very impressed by that too. he seems similar enthused with this marantz combo  i dont miss the true balanced bit as long as performance is there and it is with these

IIRC Al you have full range focals . I notice the av10 can blend lfe into the main channels now like trinnov etc . It may be interesting to use this to add some more lfe positioning to your current .1 lfe 

 subs

Quote

 above graph.er LFE routing to speakers set to “large”. This is an extremely useful tool when integrating truly full range speakers in your system if you wish to use them as additional bass sources to supplement your powered subwoofers. Marantz took it to a level I never expected by allowing advanced users to route LFE to ANY bed level speaker groups set to “large”. They even offer level adjustments from 0 to -20dB 

 

[betty boop]

5 minutes ago, cwt said:

IIRC Al you have full range focals . I notice the av10 can blend lfe into the main channels now like trinnov etc . It may be interesting to use this to add some more lfe positioning to your current .1 lfe 

 subs

hi CWT i indeed did see that from gene.....

 

I do have some awesome bass performance mains ... but no not full range  that said they roll off around 30hz and there is plenty there going all ways down as i have measured given in room gain. i have indeed been considering liberating my 2nd  sub that i use for 2ch and makes them full range so can then have upto 4 subs for LFE... something i need to work on.. ive picked up 2 x 10" lygdorf boundary subs that can go up back...really nice units so can mean .4 all up ..audyssey caters for this so will use that till dirac can do with full and true quad sub ability.  

[manbat]

Anyone compared the AV 10 to the Anthem AV90? Also curious as to the amplification that was used. 

[cwt]

22 hours ago, manbat said:

Anyone compared the AV 10 to the Anthem AV90? 

Only feature/spec wise. Chances of dirac ART on the anthem = 0 ; on the marantz with its new griffin lites a better prospect   Make sure though as its away off no doubt.

The marantz is a clean skin design compared to the anthem which is an adaptation of the avm70 ,To paraphrase av forums review

 

"'Perhaps the main competitor to the AVM 90 is Anthem’s own AVM 70, which can be had for £3,600. It lacks the HDMI 2.1 functionality of the AVM 90 and is limited to two subwoofer outputs, but if neither of those features matter to you the AVM 70 is likely to perform very similarly to the AVM 90 at almost half its price."

Edited May 3, 2023 by cwt

[blybo]

@betty boop Have you recently lost the Marantz OSD whilst using your Sony oled for FTA or the native streaming platform? For other players out there we have the same TV but in different sizes. I swear the OSD was there initially. I wonder if a recent TV upgrade has changed something in my Cinema 50/Sonly oled interaction... I still get the Marantz OSD whilst using Apple TV and Pana UHD player inputs so can only assume it's not a Marantz issue.

 

I really must set up my Harmony remote. Playing with 3/4 IR remotes with the equipment rack behind me is starting to get a bit old.

Edited May 3, 2023 by blybo

[manbat]

Thanks. I believe the AVM90 has 4 sub outs. There’s been some reviews that suggest the 90 is significantly better than the 70 and rate the unit quite highly - Home Cinema Choice - Reference Status - AV Forums 9/10. I will do some further research and try and listen to both, as I’d never buy a product without testing them first. As a side note Primare are also launching a processor (as well as the integrated receiver) in the next few months. Plenty to think about- as well as potentially mixing the multichannel amp(s) with a different manufacturer. 

[manbat]

 

SP25 Prisma processor amplifier

11 channel processing

RCA inputs and outputs

Dolby Atmos and DTS X

4K UHD HDR switching

Dirac Live DSP capabilities

eARC

Prisma network player technology

MSRP TBD (estimated €4500)

Launch date TBD (estimated second quarter 2023)

 

SP35 Prisma processor preamplifier (8 channel amp already out)

16 channel fully balanced preamplifier

Dolby Atmos and DTS X

4k UHD HDR switching

Dirac Live DSP capabilities

eARC

Prisma network player technology

MSRP TBD (€7500)

Launch date TBD (estimated second quarter 2024)

[cwt]

1 hour ago, manbat said:

Thanks. I believe the AVM90 has 4 sub outs. There’s been some reviews that suggest the 90 is significantly better than the 70 and rate the unit quite highly - Home Cinema Choice - Reference Status - AV Forums 9/10. 

Yes 4 individually  adjustable pre outs like the marantz . Though if you go with a dirac solution theres more tweakability and fine tuning of house curves than the ARC genesis .

The ARC is simpler to set up though [ depending on what suits you..] The marantz has bass management options closer to the likes of storm/trinnov if 4 subs is in the mix . 

Other niceties are a metal remote vs a plastic one [a derivative of the avm70]

 

That sp25 combo would be substantially  dearer ; for the full 16ch of power amps could be 10000  euro ,, the marantz which also uses hypex modules is a relative bargain  using existing amps though ?

 

[betty boop]

4 hours ago, blybo said:

@betty boop Have you recently lost the Marantz OSD whilst using your Sony oled for FTA or the native streaming platform? For other players out there we have the same TV but in different sizes. I swear the OSD was there initially. I wonder if a recent TV upgrade has changed something in my Cinema 50/Sonly oled interaction... I still get the Marantz OSD whilst using Apple TV and Pana UHD player inputs so can only assume it's not a Marantz issue.

 

hi blybo, i checked for you..on basic boot up the marantz OSD comes up instantly ...see below this is with apple TV...

 

also the volume OSD also comes up when i hit the marantz volume...

 

4 hours ago, blybo said:

I really must set up my Harmony remote. Playing with 3/4 IR remotes with the equipment rack behind me is starting to get a bit old.

 

yep know what you mean.. because i went from one marantz to another .. i didnt even bother updating anything on the ole harmony that still works for basics ... booting up changing basics etc...

 

being honest ..family will still grab the little apple tv remote .. which is a neat little thing and will do all apple tv and set it up to do marantz volume/mute as well. 

 

i do still grab the marantz remote or any other remote at times for any intricate not out of ordinary stuff... and jvc projector have always left to fly on its own... rather than having harmony suddenly booting it up because someone accidentally pressed a button or something  

[blybo]

15 hours ago, betty boop said:

hi blybo, i checked for you..on basic boot up the marantz OSD comes up instantly ...see below this is with apple TV...

 

I'm the same, it works fine for Apple TV and Pana UHD. It's the TV's home screen or when using it's native streaming platform the OSD doesn't work. I'm sure it did a few weeks ago when first set up, but the TV's had at least 2 OTA software upgrades since.

 

Re the remotes I had initially set up HDMI 2 way control for the new system but it's starting to get flakey, and there's nothing worse than family that can't get things to work. I hooked up the Harmony this morning and started from scratch, but having some issues getting the Moon integrated to work and ran out of time. Tonight I might re enter it as one of their similar streaming integrated models and see if that works. The hub won't learn from the remote, yet the remote works fine.

[betty boop]

5 hours ago, blybo said:

I'm the same, it works fine for Apple TV and Pana UHD. It's the TV's home screen or when using it's native streaming platform the OSD doesn't work. I'm sure it did a few weeks ago when first set up, but the TV's had at least 2 OTA software upgrades since.

native on tv has no signal coming from anywhere so hence no OSD ? we dont really ever use tv on its own ... ? its either fetch tv or appletv or pana ub9000 or the xbox or oppo

[betty boop]

new firmware announced....i note the fixed hdmi that wasnt passing mcll and max fall info that is important to some people for tone mapping...

 

https://support-uk.marantz.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7214/~/new-heos-app-and-firmware-update-available

 

"Fixed: The HDMI card does not refresh the "HDR MaxCLL/MaxFALL" info changes in the stream."

 

 

NEW HEOS APP AND FIRMWARE UPDATE AVAILABLE 

 

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New HEOS App and firmware update available - Changelog (24.05.2023)

Please find below the changelogs for the HEOS app and firmware:

 

Firmware from 24.05.2023 (U30.1)

HEOS iOS App (2.98.330)
HEOS Android App / Kindle Fire App (2.98.330)
HEOS Firmware: HS2 devices (2.98.332)

Households with only HS1 devices will remain on version 1.583.147 (U25.10)

Households with both HS1 and HS2 devices, HS1 devices will remain on 2.71.510 (U29.3)

 

Fixed: Audible skips chapters when using Alexa voice control.

Fixed: The HDMI card does not refresh the "HDR MaxCLL/MaxFALL" info changes in the stream.

Fixed: When selecting "Top front + Top surround" as height speakers, "Auro 3D" is (correctly) not displayed as available Sound format. But when you play any content (ex: Internet radio) with settings, you are now able to select "Auro 3D" as Surround Format.

Fixed: Sound is interrupted while playing FLAC 88.2kHz music on USB-A or music server.

Fixed: Noise or Audio drop occurs during the last 5-10 seconds while playing certain m4a files.

Fixed: The value for "Auro 3D" Preset is NOT stored on "Quick Selects".

Fixed: Stored DAB stations on AVR show correct on TV GUI, but on "AVR Remote App", some stations are missing.

Fixed: Display is not showing DSD tracks from DLNA server correctly.

Fixed: AVR Remote App (and also on the AV display) instead of "DTS-HD MSTR" it now says "DTS-HD Hi Res" for DTS-HD Master Audio content.

New feature: Added support for "Station Skip" restriction in HEOS App for Amazon Prime users. Skip operations are limited to a maximum of 6 tracks for one hour.

New feature FY23 AVR: Dirac Live measurement distance increased from 20ms to 50ms

Other bugfixes and performance improvements