Anthony123 Posted August 9, 2007 Posted August 9, 2007 so can the 3808 be used to surf the web?? and will it stream video files from a PC connected over wifi or ethernet?
RodN Posted August 9, 2007 Posted August 9, 2007 so can the 3808 be used to surf the web?? and will it stream video files from a PC connected over wifi or ethernet? The 4308 is claiming streaming video over the network which is one feature I'm very interested in.
radd Posted August 13, 2007 Posted August 13, 2007 The 4308 is claiming streaming video over the network which is one feature I'm very interested in. I haven't seen that anywhere, only streaming audio and still picture - the manual states (regarding the Network function): "This procedure can be used to play Internet radio stations or music or still picture (JPEG) files stored on a computer or USB memory device." Still Denon have mentioned that they may offer additional features (possibly at a cost) via an online firmware upgrade, hopefully video streaming will be one of them!
JasonInMelbourne Posted August 13, 2007 Posted August 13, 2007 Denon AVR-4308CI release in Australia in September price $4999 RRP. Just to tease you all, I work casually for a boutique hi-fi store so I'll be able to get the 4308CI for cost plus 1%, which should be less than $3k. And don't forget if Spero's price of RRP$4999 is correct, you'll have plenty of room to haggle a nice discount. Hmmm my 2807 is suddenly looking very aged You think yor AVR is old??! I've got the Yamaha DSP-A3090! It's positively archaic at 10 years old, without even DTS or analogue inputs or centre rear channel (although I've created a Centre Rear with a second matrixing amp). So I'm absolutely hanging out for this sucker to arrive!
larry42 Posted August 13, 2007 Posted August 13, 2007 i am surprised that video streaming isn't included as standard with the new models from denon my 3803, 3804 units are still quite good, and i certainly won't upgrade unless there is a significant improvement from what i presently have.... i know lots of people with DD5.1/DTS amps and they certainly won't be upgrading until there is a very significant reason video switching is good, but most people won't upgrade their amp just for video switching.... most people would get a new tv with extra inputs for $2000-$3000, (or a cheap $70 hdmi switch box) rather than a new amp.... but if an amp also can connect the pc to the tv and do video streaming that could be a winner (with video codecs being upgradable via firmware updates) if denon and the other japanese companies don't do it, i'm sure some chinese manufacturers will soon.... most people want simple systems, and an amp that video streams would help with that...
GaryN Posted August 13, 2007 Posted August 13, 2007 Just to tease you all, I work casually for a boutique hi-fi store so I'll be able to get the 4308CI for cost plus 1%, which should be less than $3k. And don't forget if Spero's price of RRP$4999 is correct, you'll have plenty of room to haggle a nice discount. You think yor AVR is old??! I've got the Yamaha DSP-A3090! It's positively archaic at 10 years old, without even DTS or analogue inputs or centre rear channel (although I've created a Centre Rear with a second matrixing amp). So I'm absolutely hanging out for this sucker to arrive! Thanks very much for the offer JasonInMelbourne. That'll be one 4308CI @ cost + 1% for each of us.
Johnson4 Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Thought I might bump this, so we don't lose the excitement! Any more info on the pre-amp?
peedon Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 bloody 'ell - and I thought I had some gear... time to get a job me thinks...
JasonInMelbourne Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 i am surprised that video streaming isn't included as standard with the new models from denonmy 3803, 3804 units are still quite good, and i certainly won't upgrade unless there is a significant improvement from what i presently have.... i know lots of people with DD5.1/DTS amps and they certainly won't be upgrading until there is a very significant reason video switching is good, but most people won't upgrade their amp just for video switching.... most people would get a new tv with extra inputs for $2000-$3000, (or a cheap $70 hdmi switch box) rather than a new amp.... but if an amp also can connect the pc to the tv and do video streaming that could be a winner (with video codecs being upgradable via firmware updates) if denon and the other japanese companies don't do it, i'm sure some chinese manufacturers will soon.... most people want simple systems, and an amp that video streams would help with that... I guess it really depends on your video sources and/or if you require your amp to do HDMI switching/upscaling. If you've got multiple HDMI sources like set-top box, DVD player, HD DVD player, Blu-ray player, XBox 360 Elite, PS3, Wii, VCR, video camera then I can see it being a must. But if you've got the one HDMI source such as myself (my HTPC is my STB/DTV Tuner, HDD recorder, Blu-ray player, HD DVD Player, DVD player/burner, video streamer and, of course, PC) then connecting my screen via the amp is superfluous, unless I want to upscale my VCR and LD player (which I probably will, even though I haven't used them for nearly a year).
larry42 Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 (edited) hi jason most of the people i know who plan on up-grading ie baby boomers who are cashed up have multiple video sources (i have various pc's and video sources) i know a LOT more people in the general community with multiple video sources, and very few with htpc's i would have thought that being in the industry that you would know this as well ? i know a lot of people here in WA who have houses that have gone up in value a lot in the past 10 years and they are interested in upgrading their Ht gear, but NOT unless the new system is easier to use AND gives them must better/new functionality..... quite a few have gotten new tv's, and left it at that.....since what is out there doesn't fulfill these wants.... when manufacturers do that.. then it will be interesting to see the sales..... Edited August 17, 2007 by larry
masterleet1503561330 Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 I agree that the lack of video streaming is annoying, but i'll still be looking at either the 3808 or the 4308 (coming from a Yamaha RXV457, so either is a big step up). I guess it really depends on your current gear wheather its worth upgrading or not. From what i've seen on the AVS forums, people have gone from the 3805 to the 3808 and said it was a pretty big setup. So I'm excited That said, if i was a cashed up baby boomer i'd look at separates, so its a moot point unless i was to use one of the Denons as a pre/pro.
JasonInMelbourne Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 (edited) hi jasonmost of the people i know who plan on up-grading ie baby boomers who are cashed up have multiple video sources (i have various pc's and video sources) i know a LOT more people in the general community with multiple video sources, and very few with htpc's i would have thought that being in the industry that you would know this as well ? i know a lot of people here in WA who have houses that have gone up in value a lot in the past 10 years and they are interested in upgrading their Ht gear, but NOT unless the new system is easier to use AND gives them must better/new functionality..... quite a few have gotten new tv's, and left it at that.....since what is out there doesn't fulfill these wants.... when manufacturers do that.. then it will be interesting to see the sales..... G'day Larry, The point of my rant was to show it's horses for courses. In the US, the ultimate "easy-to-use" HTPC is for those who are EXTREMELY cashed up and who can spend upwards of USD7000 on this single muti-purpose device but will still spend just as much on a receiver with awesome video switching specs but not really make use of it. It's true that HTPC's are still a rare breed and tend to be for those of a technical/PC background who like to tinker with their machines. Your illustrations are generally true for Australia where the populace would rather deal with a device out of the box that will do what they need, which results in multiple video sources for VCR, Blu-ray, DTV Tuner/STB, etc. But I've also shown quite a few friends that a single HTPC can do the job of mutliple devices at a fraction of the cost, and now they're devoted HTPC users and have been able to save a little money on the receiver they were originally going to purchase because they no longer required the best video switching/upscaling/video streaming. It also does and doesn't make sense for the new receiver range to have video streaming. It does make sense because it can be more attractive and easy to use, like you've mentioned, especially with more on-demand video becoming available. But then you're asking it to be more and more like a computer, which most people will already have. But also to highlight your point, with so many video codecs out there and new ones constantly being created, it could be a nightmare for a non-technical user to keep it all updated or install them all. Back to my previous point, it really is horses for courses and we all want the same thing: the best our money can buy for our needs. Anyway, still can't wait for the new 2008 series to arrive! Edited August 17, 2007 by JasonInMelbourne
larry42 Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 (edited) ho jason i agree that there are many options, but it's by doing what their prospective buyers want will give amp manufacturers the most sales... at present, HTPC buyers are a very small minority of HT buyers outer there......any shop that relies just on them will not do that well... i thought that you working in a shop would have realised that ??? hint..have a look at jb hifi's recent profit increase..they are supplying what the cashed-up consumers want.... i agree video codecs are an issue, but i am sure that manufacturers could make updating and easy option via a visiting technition it would be a quick job to do for a small 'call-out' fee, plus shops could use the visit to 'upsell' buyers to other newer gear.... the majority of HT buyers who can afford middle to high end gear want well known brands, not a HTPC i wonder what are the new features in the latest amps that will really 'push' buyers to upgrade ? i know a lot of people that upgraded becuase of stereo to prologic, and going from prologic to DD but i don't know a lot of people (apart from the mad upgraders on this forum) who will rush to upgrade because of the difference between DD/DTS and the new digital sound formats... -component/hdmi video switching is nice, but i don't know if people would upgrade an amp just because of that.... many would just get a new tv with more inputs...... i know a lot of people here in WA who have been doing very well in the past 5 years of the boom, and they are getting PS3/xbox360/bluray/HD-dvd players , and lots of new games/discs (this is why jb hifi's profit has gone up so much in the recent year....) and upgrading to new, larger TVs, but not so many have upgraded their amps..... Edited August 18, 2007 by larry
MACCA350 Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 The main reason I'd upgrade my receiver is to have HDMI inputs with 8channel PCM processing. And Audyssey MultEQ. Audio and video streaming from PC would be a nice plus. cheers
Aspect Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 The main reason I want to upgrade my receiver is so I can have DD and DTS, instead of Prologic with "simulated" stereo on the rears.
GaryN Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 The main reason I want to upgrade my receiver is so I can have DD and DTS, instead of Prologic with "simulated" stereo on the rears. Denon make magnificent gear, but aren't you guys disappointed they didn't go the extra meter with the new models and use the Reon chip instead of the Farouja?
big_marcelo Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 Denon make magnificent gear, but aren't you guys disappointed they didn't go the extra meter with the new models and use the Reon chip instead of the Farouja? yes, I have been thinking of upgrading my Yamaha 2500 to one of the new amps which can decode HD audio ... and I was considering the yamaha 3800 and the Denon's... but neither of them have decent scaling... the onkyo has the HQV (albeit only Reon), but I'm not sure if that has passthrough modes or handles things on a per input basis... so, long story short... I think I'll wait and see how they evolve in mark 2.0 ..... might hang on to my yammy 2500 a little longer ....
JasonInMelbourne Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 (edited) ho jasoni agree that there are many options, but it's by doing what their prospective buyers want will give amp manufacturers the most sales... G'day Larry, Very true, but the Australian home theater market is a drop in the ocean in the world market and what we get is dictated by what's happening in the US, Japan and Europe. If they don't want it, we will not get it. Since IP video is still in it's infancy it seems that manufacturers have held off this feature, which can always be brought in later with either a firmware update, as you've mentioned, or even an addtional circuit card as the dust settles. at present, HTPC buyers are a very small minority of HT buyers outer there......any shop that relies just on them will not do that well...i thought that you working in a shop would have realised that ??? hint..have a look at jb hifi's recent profit increase..they are supplying what the cashed-up consumers want.... You've missed my point here. I was just illustrating that more and more top-end HT set-up's in the US include HTPC's, and a growing number here. Look at any computer store catalogue and there's always a few to choose from with varying levels of sophistication. Did at any stage I say that the stores or designers of receivers are only focussing on HTPC customers? On the other hand, look at how heavily JB Hifi is branching out into PC's and perhipherals... agree video codecs are an issue, but i am sure that manufacturers could make updating and easy option via a visiting technitionit would be a quick job to do for a small 'call-out' fee, plus shops could use the visit to 'upsell' buyers to other newer gear.... Large Retailers/Manufacturers usually use indenpendant third party subcontractor technicians to complete firmware upgrades ad other in-home services and have absolutely no interest in upselling as that isn't what they're paid for. When's the last time you've heard JB HiFi or Myers send a staff member to a customer's house to do an install? Boutique stores, like the one I work for, do actually offer house calls to customers and we've got loyal customers who keep coming back because we offer unbiased and honest advise that saves them time and money in the long-run and promote the passion of the best home theatre they can afford rather than always upselling. We don't have a sell-sell-sell mentality and I'll often tell a customer NOT to buy something as it's overkill for their actual use or it's too soon for a certain technology. the majority of HT buyers who can afford middle to high end gear want well known brands, not a HTPC I'd agree that MOST HT customers would rather brand components. I never disputed that. But I was highlighting what many Home Theater installers are doing in the US market and how many hi-end HTPC manufacturers there are that are using quality parts from Sony, Pioneer, Toshiba and see what functions their machines offer that no combination of separate components could ever do (home video/music servers, copying images of CDs, DVDs, HD DVDs or Blu-ray discs to hard drives for later playback, home and theatre automation and security, programming of PVRs via internet, watching a program you recorded or security camera at home over the internet at work, etc). The key word is Convergence. Ten years ago who would've thought an amp would have internet radio and network streaming capabilities? Ten years ago who would've thought that a PC could be the heart of a Home Theatre? Five years ago, who would've thought that JB Hi-fi would be selling full PC systems an even have a specialist Computer store (well, in Melbourne anyway)? The fact that Dell and HP as well as Myers and David Jones and Hardly Normal have been offering HTPC's for years is testament to convergence, but this is getting off topic. i wonder what are the new features in the latest amps that will really 'push' buyers to upgrade ?i know a lot of people that upgraded becuase of stereo to prologic, and going from prologic to DD but i don't know a lot of people (apart from the mad upgraders on this forum) who will rush to upgrade because of the difference between DD/DTS and the new digital sound formats... -component/hdmi video switching is nice, but i don't know if people would upgrade an amp just because of that.... many would just get a new tv with more inputs...... i know a lot of people here in WA who have been doing very well in the past 5 years of the boom, and they are getting PS3/xbox360/bluray/HD-dvd players , and lots of new games/discs (this is why jb hifi's profit has gone up so much in the recent year....) and upgrading to new, larger TVs, but not so many have upgraded their amps..... As for me, as I've mentioned I haven't bothered to upgrade my amp for over 10 years because I didn't have a need for DTS. Now that 20th Century Fox Blu-ray titles are only encoded in DTS-HD (there's DD tracks but for the commentary only) I NEED DTS, otherwise I wouldn't have worried. My experience with my customers is similar to yours in that they're only upgrading amps if there's something signifcantly better or new being offered and that I've told many not to bother unless they're for some reason unhappy with their set-up and also getting any of the new hi def disc formats. Over here the boom hasn't affected us so much, so people are holding on to what they've got a little while longer. Larry, You keep talking about JB Hifi. Over here JB do not stock Denon and the rep says Denon will not go near dept stores like JB or Hardly Normal because those stores don't offer the kind of customer service that Denon want their customers to experience (but they do deal with Circuit City in the US, so I presume their customer service is good). Is JB in WA now selling Denon? That would be pretty cool, since it would be easier to get a cheaper deal and more outlets selling them. Edited August 19, 2007 by JasonInMelbourne
JasonInMelbourne Posted August 19, 2007 Posted August 19, 2007 (edited) We got any dates for Australian release yet? The rep said supposedly late Sep, which would more likely be Oct, even Nov. (Just in time for Christmas). Edited August 19, 2007 by JasonInMelbourne
larry42 Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 hi jason, you are right that HTPC's are becoming more popular, but they are still far less common than 'black boxes' .... i have a lot of friends in IT jobs, and they still dont use htpc's, as their wives aren't interested..even one's with wives in IT.... i know quite a few people that have bought htpc's from the shops but they still haven't connected them to their tv's....but they plan to..eventually.... mind you, some of them have xbox's running xbmc..... it will be interesting to see how quickly htpc's get 'taken on' by the public i plan on hooking up a htpc rather than upgrading my mediastar pvr to a hidef pvr but no rush right now..... I was interested to hear your comments about your amp and DTS, that is quite refreshing.... many shops try to push you to upgrade, for very little benefit.... my wife lets me upgrade whenever i want.. but i always want value for money with an upgrade.... i don't think jbhifi here sell denon, but unfortunately i have always bought my denon and sony amps overseas, as the local prices are so much higher, due to the crazy margins the importer puts on them... i do prefer to buy local, but when a $4000 denon amp is available for $3000 locally, and $1500-$1800 overseas, it's too big a difference.....
JasonInMelbourne Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 G'day Larry, Being in both (sort of) an IT role at my day job and Hi-Fi-/AV on weekends it really have to try and keep on top of both industries and the way things have been converging for the last 5 years is incredible, (again) especially in the US where there are now manufacturers who specialise in making HTPC's that look and even behave just like the traditional black box complete with flourescent vacuum display. And now with Windows Vista having Media Center included as standard should see an increase in PC users adding DTV Tuners, Blu-ray drives and larger HDDs out of the box or after they've used the PC for a while and have ocme to grips with what Media Center can offer at a fraction of the cost of separate boxes. The problem is that any Media Center PC will eventually crash and requires anti-virus and anti-SPAM maintenance, unlike your stand alone DVD player or STB. It is a shame that Australia does get done on RRP compared to overseas, but this has a lot to do with the logistics of shipping to a far away country and distributing within such vast land mass and such a small customer base. I consider myself lucky to have been able to turn a hobby into a paycheck (more like pocket money) and I'm able to get my items pretty much at cost. Even with this discount I'm still only considering the 3808 rather than the 4308 now. Unless I could get either unit at literally dirt cheap prices, I wouldn't spend that much money on an item from overseas purely due to the fact that if something goes wrong with an overseas purchased item, you'll get bugger all service after the international 3-month warranty runs out. When you purchase at home you can get at least 12 months back-up. I've seen all sorts of problems with goods out of the box that require replacement. Try returning a faulty item to an online dealer without at least a couple of headaches, not to mention the turn-around time. As opposed to rocking up to the dealer you bought it from here and taking a new replacement home. Anyway, I hope my rep is correct when he says Sep for the new 2008 series. I'm sick of listening to DTS-HD in 2-ch PCM!
geoffman Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) The rep said supposedly late Sep, which would more likely be Oct, even Nov. (Just in time for Christmas). Yeah spoke to my AV guy today, who funnily enough had just been on the phone to the distributors (he's chasing up his own 4308 for personal use). He was informed that there was a delay and not to expect stock until October. P.S. For those that grizzle about the price is Oz and wanna compare it to USD, you can't really. Denon stock for Oz is sourced through Singapore and don't forget that lovely 33% luxury tax on all this stuff that the govt charges, which accounts for a lot of the price difference. That being said I do feel that the distributor's markup on this stuff is a tad high. Edited August 20, 2007 by geoffman
larry42 Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) hi jason thanks for the info i agree that convergence will get more popular over time, but it is still early days here.... if i can buy a denon amp for approx 1/2 price in asia, then the reduced warantee doesn't really bother me... if it was only a couple of hundred dollars difference, it would get it here... singapore is only a couple of million people, and it's a lot cheaper there, plus Hk, philippines. etc they are ALL cheaper than here by a LOT...... it's fun going on a holiday, and bringing back an amp, and the saving is the cost of both airfares the local denon distributor is making a killing.... i have put a lot of people locally onto buying denon gear o/s , and i don't know of any that have has their amps die on them... denon make good stuff.... i have heard of one sony amp die..but it was fixed, and this happened well after the 1 year period anyway.... i really can't wait till another company imports denon gear and sells it here in australia for a reasonable price.... geoffman-what luxury tax of 33% on electronics ? i have heard of a luxury tax on cars .... there is a 10% GST..... Edited August 20, 2007 by larry
JasonInMelbourne Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) hi jasonthanks for the info i agree that convergence will get more popular over time, but it is still early days here.... if i can buy a denon amp for approx 1/2 price in asia, then the reduced warantee doesn't really bother me... if it was only a couple of hundred dollars difference, it would get it here... singapore is only a couple of million people, and it's a lot cheaper there, plus Hk, philippines. etc they are ALL cheaper than here by a LOT...... it's fun going on a holiday, and bringing back an amp, and the saving is the cost of both airfares the local denon distributor is making a killing.... i have put a lot of people locally onto buying denon gear o/s , and i don't know of any that have has their amps die on them... denon make good stuff.... i have heard of one sony amp die..but it was fixed, and this happened well after the 1 year period anyway.... i really can't wait till another company imports denon gear and sells it here in australia for a reasonable price.... geoffman-what luxury tax of 33% on electronics ? i have heard of a luxury tax on cars .... there is a 10% GST..... There's been more than one occasion when I've thought about buying over the net or getting a friend in Singapore to send one to me on my behalf. But then I work at the shop and the inevitble happens, a customer brings back a brand new faulty unit, whoever the manufacturer is. It doesn't happen often, I'll agree, but I've seen it often enough to put enough fear in me to stick to domestic purchases for items worth more than a few $100. Hmmn, don't think that the Aussie distributor will be changing anytime soon... Edited August 20, 2007 by JasonInMelbourne
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