Headphone Amplifiers (Balanced/ single ended/ dac/ preamp) and Headphone Cables

I haven't tried your LE one but the normal one (404? or something like that) was really not good. What is your headphone setup? Was the amp expensive?

I felt that I can get close to Stax and better it in some ways with the HD800 for at least 40% or cheaper.

Quest88 · February 7, 2013

The usual story, not enough money.

Yes, I love Stax and I like the Omega 1 and 009. They are seriously ex and the amps that need to go with them are also ex.

I haven't tried your LE one but the normal one (404? or something like that) was really not good. What is your headphone setup? Was the amp expensive?

I felt that I can get close to Stax and better it in some ways with the HD800 for at least 40% or cheaper.

My SRM-600LE with Airbow SC-1 combo was about $3-4k range IIRC.. I bought this at the time as I went through same process as you. At the time, the 009 was not out. I felt the Omegas were abit too laid back for me, though it was really nice sounding. In terms of refinement, it's tough to beat the Omegas, and I was pondering a second hand unit for awhile - though the price tag is abit high. I agree the 404 does not sound good (too aggressive and lack refinement IIRC), so I kind of put off Stax at the time.

However, I came across the Airbow SC-1 combo and bought it after first listen. My old benchmark pairs well with it, maybe cos the amp is a tube, though I'm using a $700 dac with it now. It's hard to describe but though it's kind of like a modded 404, it sounds totally different (I heard 404 with a solid state amp also, so not sure how diff). Anyway, to me, it bridged the gap for me between my reservations about the 404 and Omegas - much more refined than the 404, and more aggressive than the Omegas.

I felt the Airbow combo + my old benchmark dac (with my old cables) beat my old 1027Be setup in most ways.. especially musicality.

IMO, the HD800 only sounds good with the right headphone amp - where the combo would cost a fair amount. With the right amp, the HD800 overcomes a lot of its restrictions and has more resolution, but still lacks the 'freedom' I feel from the Stax. With a poorer amp for the HD800 (which are almost majority of the <$3k amps I tried), I felt my combo beat the HD800, but you know my emphasis has never been on hifi stuff.. I tried quite a few amps (before I went Stax) and could never get the sound I wanted with HD800 and the price kept escalating as I was hunting. I also never heard the HD800 project as wide a stage as the Stax.. though good, it never really made me feel like there are sounds outside of my head, but that could just be my ears. :)

If you want to try out my Stax for fun, let me know.. I seldom use it. No idea if the new 507 sounds good paired to it, but if that works out, may be worth a try.

Just FYI also I recently went on a hunt for semi-closed headphones and found the audio technicas and top-end Fostex to be quite nice.. but unfortunately for the Fostex, lack the energy/aggressiveness I kind of like in the music (though could be pairing also).

myview · February 7, 2013

Any idea how much is the Bryston? and its external PS?

Hi Jimi,

The Bryston BHA-1 comes in 2 versions:

1) with internal power supply

2) without internal power supply (you will then need to buy external power supply unit called MPS-2. http://bryston.com/products/other/MPS-2.html).

According to Bryston, there is no difference in the quality of sound between these 2 versions. I would recommend going for the version with internal power supply - this gives you a lot more flexibility in terms of equipment placement etc. Bryston BHA-1 is a superb piece of equipment and like all Bryston components, is built to last a looooong time.

Audio · February 7, 2013

I am pouring a lot onto my HD-800 setup but ultimately I will get a Stax....it's just a matter of when and where. If I am to go to Japan, I will get one, maybe just the headphone and not the amps.....not sure if these are voltage selectable.

I heard the 009 at the Bangkok AV show......OMG....hee hee....cannot buy there....duty's too high.

The HD-800 sounded a little too thin though you get a lot of details and spacing...many a time, I got lost in the music while testing sometimes, I believe Stax's a lot better.

(Audio)

Audio · February 7, 2013

Official price for BHA-1 from AFA Electronics is $2,150.

(Audio)

jimi1624705950 · February 7, 2013

My SRM-600LE with Airbow SC-1 combo was about $3-4k range IIRC.. I bought this at the time as I went through same process as you. At the time, the 009 was not out. I felt the Omegas were abit too laid back for me, though it was really nice sounding. In terms of refinement, it's tough to beat the Omegas, and I was pondering a second hand unit for awhile - though the price tag is abit high. I agree the 404 does not sound good (too aggressive and lack refinement IIRC), so I kind of put off Stax at the time.

However, I came across the Airbow SC-1 combo and bought it after first listen. My old benchmark pairs well with it, maybe cos the amp is a tube, though I'm using a $700 dac with it now. It's hard to describe but though it's kind of like a modded 404, it sounds totally different (I heard 404 with a solid state amp also, so not sure how diff). Anyway, to me, it bridged the gap for me between my reservations about the 404 and Omegas - much more refined than the 404, and more aggressive than the Omegas.

I felt the Airbow combo + my old benchmark dac (with my old cables) beat my old 1027Be setup in most ways.. especially musicality.

IMO, the HD800 only sounds good with the right headphone amp - where the combo would cost a fair amount. With the right amp, the HD800 overcomes a lot of its restrictions and has more resolution, but still lacks the 'freedom' I feel from the Stax. With a poorer amp for the HD800 (which are almost majority of the <$3k amps I tried), I felt my combo beat the HD800, but you know my emphasis has never been on hifi stuff.. I tried quite a few amps (before I went Stax) and could never get the sound I wanted with HD800 and the price kept escalating as I was hunting. I also never heard the HD800 project as wide a stage as the Stax.. though good, it never really made me feel like there are sounds outside of my head, but that could just be my ears. :)

If you want to try out my Stax for fun, let me know.. I seldom use it. No idea if the new 507 sounds good paired to it, but if that works out, may be worth a try.

Just FYI also I recently went on a hunt for semi-closed headphones and found the audio technicas and top-end Fostex to be quite nice.. but unfortunately for the Fostex, lack the energy/aggressiveness I kind of like in the music (though could be pairing also).

Heh! I did think of your Airbow but wasn't sure if I could secure one easily. Not a common item.

I'm quite happy with the HD800 sound now. If you had asked me even a month ago I would have told you I'd considered changing it, but after an unbelieveably long break in, the sound is beginning to flow in the way I like. Also the brightness is pretty well tempered too. Before it sounded weak, bright, flabby bass and the mids were quite recessed.

I recently went to Jaben and realised that their HD800 demo sounded very different to how mine sounds right now. So now I carry my own phones for audition :)

There is also some scope to try changing cables and trying it in balanced mode.

With the Fostex HPA8c, single ended only, I'm getting a pretty good 3D headstage now, some real depth to it. Width has never seemed to be much of a problem but sometimes the cohesiveness of the central voice was not great. Now seems acceptable and even quite good frequently. Unless you go for something like the Smyth realiser, you will not get a speaker like projection.

Bass is surprisingly deep and tuneful. I think it does better my 1027BE spks in a few areas.

The thing with Stax is that music is so lithe and flowing yet the decay is excellent. The bass and impact is a little lacking on the Omega 1's, as you suggest, but I'd be willing to forgo that. The headphones are not as comfortable as the HD800 which is just the most comfy HP I've ever tried.

The AT and Fostex HP are very good, I think you probably would like their neutral character. Again, a decent amp is probably the key.

I remember reading that some China company bought out Stax, I'm not sure whether it was just a rumour or not but if true, hopefully the prices will come down (but am a bit worried about the quality). For something that is more portable consider something like the JH16/18 IEMs, the JH16 might suit you more, but you have to be ok with sticking things in your ears ;)

jimi1624705950 · February 7, 2013

Hi Jimi,

The Bryston BHA-1 comes in 2 versions:

1) with internal power supply

2) without internal power supply (you will then need to buy external power supply unit called MPS-2. http://bryston.com/products/other/MPS-2.html).

According to Bryston, there is no difference in the quality of sound between these 2 versions. I would recommend going for the version with internal power supply - this gives you a lot more flexibility in terms of equipment placement etc. Bryston BHA-1 is a superb piece of equipment and like all Bryston components, is built to last a looooong time.

Thanks! I find it hard to believe that the 2 options sound the same! Who would bother going without the internal PS then! The only reason I can think of is so that you can choose your own PS- but why would Bryston facilitate that? ???

I am pouring a lot onto my HD-800 setup but ultimately I will get a Stax....it's just a matter of when and where. If I am to go to Japan, I will get one, maybe just the headphone and not the amps.....not sure if these are voltage selectable.

I heard the 009 at the Bangkok AV show......OMG....hee hee....cannot buy there....duty's too high.

The HD-800 sounded a little too thin though you get a lot of details and spacing...many a time, I got lost in the music while testing sometimes, I believe Stax's a lot better.

(Audio)

Haha! You have too much cash Audio bro!! Am trying to keep up by just counting your purchases.

I don't think the amps are voltage selectable (but you have your Sine). But with headphones only and no amp how are you going to play them?

... There is one solution btw, it runs off a speaker amplifier only:

Back panel contains a AC inlet with fuse box, a AC110 and 220/240V voltage switch, power amplifier inputs, and speaker output terminals

http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wee.html

Official price for BHA-1 from AFA Electronics is $2,150.

(Audio)

That stellar warranty is also amazing. Whats the discount price? PM me if needed.

jimi1624705950 · February 7, 2013

So what other amps have people tried? Its ok to talk about any kind of amp, just out of interest.

Always wanted to hear the Little Dot series of tube headamps. I see that they also have balanced outs now!

http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=871&sid=9012c90af76a263aaa9dc2e7a8806b2c

Audio · February 7, 2013

Sorry, no discounted price for me. I am a new customer with AFA. I considered myself lucky to get it as it is mostly out of stock...yes, even in HK....James Tanner assume me that they shipped out quite a bit of 220VAC models that he suggested me trying to contact the dealers again.

The Singapore unit comes with an extra pair of XLR outputs that you can use this headphone amp as a pre-amp.

I am running this with either a TEAC UD-501 or a .....ahem....Mytek Stereo 192 DSD.

I once tried to buy a SPL Phonitor.....hard and edgy!! My small size Chord Chordette Toucan headphone amp sounded better.

(Audio)

jimi1624705950 · February 7, 2013

Heh! ok, If I want to buy I go with you as you are repeat customer LOL!

Wonder how good it is as a preamp. Has got me intrigued!

I am running this with either a TEAC UD-501 or a .....ahem....Mytek Stereo 192 DSD.

(Audio)

Please explain!! :D

Have tried the TEAC as a dac headamp- was not impressed at all. Sounded inoffensive but cheap.

I tried the Invicta the other day- a very impressive DSD capable dac. Played a DSD track via SD card and I was amazed at the SQ!

Audio · February 7, 2013

Try TEAC with a DSD track, just as impressive...I will get my Mytek tomorrow (GUILTY of buying the last one just before CNY); so it would be a busy CNY testiung this and that. I have just packed my HD-800, Bryston and TEAC into my luggage. :)

Like I said (are you guys reading this?) Buy a DAC now, must have DSD capability, there is no compromise. The playback with DSD is just too superior to ignore.

(Audio)

jimi1624705950 · February 7, 2013

Oh Goody.

Pls see if you can make a few notes and share with us here :)

Smeckles · February 8, 2013

Try TEAC with a DSD track, just as impressive...I will get my Mytek tomorrow (GUILTY of buying the last one just before CNY); so it would be a busy CNY testiung this and that. I have just packed my HD-800, Bryston and TEAC into my luggage. :)

Like I said (are you guys reading this?) Buy a DAC now, must have DSD capability, there is no compromise. The playback with DSD is just too superior to ignore.

(Audio)

There's a discussion thread on Head-Fi right now in the Manufacturer's forum started by Mike Moffat of Schitt (and Theta Digital) talking about how he's gonna ignore DSD handling until there's more support from labels to offer more music. He and Jason Stoddard (the other Schitter (I giggle everytime I write that)) don't deny the superiority of the DSD sound over the other major formats, but they throw it back that there are too few releases to merit a whole extra digital input implementation on his gear just yet.

Now granted Schitt is not currently ultra high end headphone gear, but it's great value for money. It is a bit disturbing though given MM (and Theta's) history of cutting edge digital front ends that he is holding off on this one.

But its also a chance to communicate with one of the long-time leaders in DAC and digital conversion.

Quest88 · February 8, 2013

Heh! I did think of your Airbow but wasn't sure if I could secure one easily. Not a common item.

I'm quite happy with the HD800 sound now. If you had asked me even a month ago I would have told you I'd considered changing it, but after an unbelieveably long break in, the sound is beginning to flow in the way I like. Also the brightness is pretty well tempered too. Before it sounded weak, bright, flabby bass and the mids were quite recessed.

I recently went to Jaben and realised that their HD800 demo sounded very different to how mine sounds right now. So now I carry my own phones for audition :)

There is also some scope to try changing cables and trying it in balanced mode.

With the Fostex HPA8c, single ended only, I'm getting a pretty good 3D headstage now, some real depth to it. Width has never seemed to be much of a problem but sometimes the cohesiveness of the central voice was not great. Now seems acceptable and even quite good frequently. Unless you go for something like the Smyth realiser, you will not get a speaker like projection.

Bass is surprisingly deep and tuneful. I think it does better my 1027BE spks in a few areas.

The thing with Stax is that music is so lithe and flowing yet the decay is excellent. The bass and impact is a little lacking on the Omega 1's, as you suggest, but I'd be willing to forgo that. The headphones are not as comfortable as the HD800 which is just the most comfy HP I've ever tried.

The AT and Fostex HP are very good, I think you probably would like their neutral character. Again, a decent amp is probably the key.

I remember reading that some China company bought out Stax, I'm not sure whether it was just a rumour or not but if true, hopefully the prices will come down (but am a bit worried about the quality). For something that is more portable consider something like the JH16/18 IEMs, the JH16 might suit you more, but you have to be ok with sticking things in your ears ;)

Well as long as you're happy.. :) I just raised the suggestion since the price of HD800 + amp would bring it into a mid-range Stax territory.

Personally I have been tempted a number of times to buy the 009, but given that it will see very little use, I've been refraining from unnecessary expenditure.

Don't mind looking at a JH16.. thanks for the recommendation.

dXter · February 8, 2013

iirc, they didn't even want to do USB audio initially. Their focus is not on technology.

There's a discussion thread on Head-Fi right now in the Manufacturer's forum started by Mike Moffat of Schitt (and Theta Digital) talking about how he's gonna ignore DSD handling until there's more support from labels to offer more music. He and Jason Stoddard (the other Schitter (I giggle everytime I write that)) don't deny the superiority of the DSD sound over the other major formats, but they throw it back that there are too few releases to merit a whole extra digital input implementation on his gear just yet.

Now granted Schitt is not currently ultra high end headphone gear, but it's great value for money. It is a bit disturbing though given MM (and Theta's) history of cutting edge digital front ends that he is holding off on this one.

But its also a chance to communicate with one of the long-time leaders in DAC and digital conversion.

Audio · February 8, 2013

Just an excuse why their DAC don't have DSD.

Lucky not everyone thinks like that, how are you going to force media companies release music in that format, if nobody use the efforts to improve things; CLEARLY KNOWING that DSD is superior and can be implemented?

(Audio)

Quest88 · February 8, 2013

Don't want this to be a DSD thread.. but personally I'm still using 16/44.1 only even when I have hi-res files and my DAC is DSD capable.

I still cannot even get any of the music I want in 24/192.. placing even less hopes in DSD.

Funny thing is, my 16/44.1 via my converter still sound better than my hi-res via async usb.. not sure about DSD.

For budget gear, I personally would like them to concentrate on the SQ rather than all these things..

My youtube now sounds very nice.

Someone who visit me awhile ago said the youtube sound a lot better than a lousily pressed CD rip, when I played both (they are the same song). Think the chase to hi-res and DSD should still go on, but meanwhile for most of us, 16/44.1 and normal files will still be the norm and have utmost importance..

wylee1624706004 · February 8, 2013

Anyone tried Leben 300 as a headphone amp? Good powerful bass and sweet sound when pair with Denon 7000. On JVC HP 1000 the bass is a bit overwhelming. Very different from Stax 007 and SRM 727 very clear and transparent but one can ask for more bass. Stax are not cheap in Japan especially in Tokyo. There is almost no price difference between buying them in Singapore as compared to buying a new Stax in Tokyo and it is very difficult to get one at 220 to 240V. Everything there is 100V (not 110V as in the US), so I will advise one to get the transformers there. If you do not mind second hand Stax, you can find them in Audio Union stores thru out Tokyo or better bet will be AVIC store at Nakano. Imagine 2nd hand Stax -looks and feels new at heavily discounted prices and comes with 1 year warranty.

The usual story, not enough money.

Yes, I love Stax and I like the Omega 1 and 009. They are seriously ex and the amps that need to go with them are also ex.

I haven't tried your LE one but the normal one (404? or something like that) was really not good. What is your headphone setup? Was the amp expensive?

I felt that I can get close to Stax and better it in some ways with the HD800 for at least 40% or cheaper.

Audio · February 8, 2013

OT on DSD a bit.

Quest, you're using 16/44.1 because your music sound better that way. Don't get anyone wrong, high-Rez music don't means it will sound right, it just got a better chance to sound right, that's all.

Like on the TEAC UD-501, I hear 16/44.1 version and then upsample it to 192 and 384, something's missing in the sound. On some tracks it is good, on some, it is bad. So, a lot is dependent on the player, the DAC, how you upsample and of course the source file. On the Bel Canto DAC 3.5 and the Meitner, High Rez is good, most of the time. :)

And of course, CD playback at 16/44.1 is still superior than computer audio at native rate; on my setup; with the exception of DSD.

(Audio)

Quest88 · February 8, 2013

OT on DSD a bit.

Quest, you're using 16/44.1 because your music sound better that way. Don't get anyone wrong, high-Rez music don't means it will sound right, it just got a better chance to sound right, that's all.

Like on the TEAC UD-501, I hear 16/44.1 version and then upsample it to 192 and 384, something's missing in the sound. On some tracks it is good, on some, it is bad. So, a lot is dependent on the player, the DAC, how you upsample and of course the source file. On the Bel Canto DAC 3.5 and the Meitner, High Rez is good, most of the time. :)

And of course, CD playback at 16/44.1 is still superior than computer audio at native rate; on my setup; with the exception of DSD.

(Audio)

Audio, I was comparing 24/192 native file versus 16/44.1.

Also comparing 24/96 native file versus 16/44.1.

The above is not exactly fair because 16/44.1 is through my usb converter, whereas the others are all direct async usb.

If I downsample the 24/192 file to 16/44.1 and playback through my converter, it does still sound better than direct async usb input.

I did not do DSD file comparisons though. Only my async usb input can do that and I just never got into it..

Since it isn't fair, I also gave example of youtube vs 16/44.1.. this is to highlight my point that while I agree the higher resolution and DSD has potential to go further, however it does not necessarily mean it is the best sounding.

Add: I think you meant that upsampling occurs in the DAC, whereas I was talking about the files themselves. The DAC has its own methodology which applies to everything.. no adjustments. I think it's DSD x2 or something.

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