Guitars

[blackangus]

  On 13/02/2016 at 4:57 AM, MusicOne said:

I found this image to be where I think the middle course should be with right hand positioning:

images8595.jpg

@@MusicOne a very good starting point for right hand positioning is like this -

As you're seated with your guitar, hang your right arm by your side, it is not on the guitar at this point

Raise your arm, keeping your wrist in the position it is when your arm is hanging, bring your hand to the strings, with your arm meeting the guitar just below the elbow

This will result in your wrist being pretty much straight in relation to your forearm, their should be as little a bend in the wrist as necessary, and the nails will be at a slight angle to the strings - don't 'square up' the nails to the strings

Think of the wrist and arm as more or less one unit

This is very general advice, everyone is different, but the main thing is keep the wrist fairly neutral, don't feel you need to bend at the wrist

[blackangus]

  On 13/02/2016 at 9:34 PM, MusicOne said:

Here is a video by Scott Morris, concerning tone production on the classical guitar. Scott's right hand technique is interesting, in that he holds his right hand, wrist and arm pretty much in a straight line....or even very slightly bent to the left. However, his tone production is excellent and one which I would like to emulate. Worth a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9xQLk61Pxg

Ha ha - you must have posted this while I was writing the above!

[MusicOne]

@blackangus  The first teacher I had (10 or so years ago) insisted that the wrist be bent quite markedly to the right, so that the fingers are square on to the strings. I even have a couple of tutors here which also show the same technique. God it's a minefield.

[blackangus]

  On 13/02/2016 at 10:02 PM, MusicOne said:

@blackangus The first teacher I had (10 or so years ago) insisted that the wrist be bent quite markedly to the right, so that the fingers are square on to the strings. I even have a couple of tutors here which also show the same technique. God it's a minefield.

Even a decade ago that was probably quite outdated advice. I remember some years ago being instructed to try bending or angling your wrist, and make a fist. Then straighten the wrist and do the same - as you can see your fingers on both hands will move much more freely in the straighter position

But yes like many things it's a minefield.

[MusicOne]

  On 13/02/2016 at 10:15 PM, blackangus said:

Even a decade ago that was probably quite outdated advice. I remember some years ago being instructed to try bending or angling your wrist, and make a fist. Then straighten the wrist and do the same - as you can see your fingers on both hands will move much more freely in the straighter position

But yes like many things it's a minefield.

 

That's interesting. Such technique as I have (or had), is based on bending the wrist quite sharply to the right. Taking up the guitar after so many years, led me to questioning what I had been taught about right hand positioning. It just didn't feel right. All good instrumental technique works by adapting the body's natural postures and positions....nothing should feel forced or awkward....just my view.

Edited February 13, 2016 by MusicOne

[zog]

I'm considering buying another electric guitar later this year. Still in the window shopping phase right now.

 

Does anyone know how good the hollow body electrics along the lines of "Epiphone Emporer Swingster" and Ibenez Artcore play unplugged? I want an electric, with a tremelo arm, but also would be good to not have to plug in all the wires if I just want to sit and have a play like I have to do with my old telecaster. Doesn't have to be as loud as an acoustic.

 

I had an very cheap and nasty 335 copy once and I remember it not being so great unplugged, but the epiphone and ibenez are obviously a leap in quality, as well as larger bodies.

 

http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Archtop/Emperor-Swingster.aspx

 

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Ibanez_AFS80T_Artcore_Electric_Guitar_Review

 

Also I like the Cramps and Hoodoo Gurus :-)

 

edit: ...and then I googled it

Edited February 14, 2016 by zog

[jamesg11]

Yep, my 335 is playable unplugged, albeit at a pretty low decibel projection - but it's night & day tone-wise when amped, ie you can now hear the subtleties, so I just don't bother ...

[betocool]

  On 14/02/2016 at 12:33 AM, zog said:

I'm considering buying another electric guitar later this year. Still in the window shopping phase right now.

 

Does anyone know how good the hollow body electrics along the lines of "Epiphone Emporer Swingster" and Ibenez Artcore play unplugged? I want an electric, with a tremelo arm, but also would be good to not have to plug in all the wires if I just want to sit and have a play like I have to do with my old telecaster. Doesn't have to be as loud as an acoustic.

 

I had an very cheap and nasty 335 copy once and I remember it not being so great unplugged, but the epiphone and ibenez are obviously a leap in quality, as well as larger bodies.

 

http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Archtop/Emperor-Swingster.aspx

 

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Ibanez_AFS80T_Artcore_Electric_Guitar_Review

 

Also I like the Cramps and Hoodoo Gurus :-)

 

edit: ...and then I googled it

 

You could also try a Gretsch, they look the looks, but haven't tried them unplugged myself. Still, might be a bit higher budget....

[Tweaky]

Gretsch seem to be pretty pricey here now considering all except the custom shop ones are made in Asia ....I think this might be a distributor thing.

 

The fact that you want a tremelo equipped guitar sort of makes things a bit more difficult to recommend anything particular.

 

I'd hazard a guess that a guitar with a floating wood bridge will sound louder acoustically than one with two pillar mounting, but then electrically it's more likely to sound like a Jazz guitar..... so it depends what you want.

 

As both of your choices seem to be roughly within $150-200 of each other, I'd opt for the one that had the closest to a real Bigsby tremelo fitted, as a new one of these costs close to $450 by itself

 

OR

 

Buy a new none tremelo equipped archtop with a trapeze tail piece, and then retro fit one of these Bigsby inspired Xtrem tremelo designs from Guitarfetish.com., at a fraction of the price.

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Xtrem-Floating-Tailpiece-Vibrato-Four-Finishes_c_374.html

 

I haven't used one, but I hear they are pretty good from those who have fitted them

[zog]

  On 14/02/2016 at 1:08 AM, jamesg11 said:

Yep, my 335 is playable unplugged, albeit at a pretty low decibel projection - but it's night & day tone-wise when amped, ie you can now hear the subtleties, so I just don't bother ...

 

Yes, the fully hollow electrics do have more unplugged volume than the thinner semi acoustic ones - though from reading the cost is a higher risk of feedback in high volume situations.

 

  On 14/02/2016 at 3:54 AM, betocool said:

You could also try a Gretsch, they look the looks, but haven't tried them unplugged myself. Still, might be a bit higher budget....

 

Yes, I suspect the Gretsch ones out of my budget, unless I luck out on ebay/2nd hand..

 

 

  On 15/02/2016 at 2:37 PM, Tweaky said:

Buy a new none tremelo equipped archtop with a trapeze tail piece, and then retro fit one of these Bigsby inspired Xtrem tremelo designs from Guitarfetish.com., at a fraction of the price.

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Xtrem-Floating-Tailpiece-Vibrato-Four-Finishes_c_374.html

 

I haven't used one, but I hear they are pretty good from those who have fitted them

 

Thanks for the hint, they look interesting!

[zenikoy]

  On 27/01/2016 at 10:03 AM, Tweaky said:

The thing with semi's is that they are a lot of work to upgrade if you buy a copy and find it lacking.

Secondhand Gibson semi's still cost a lot, and they probably need some work on them as well.

 

I had given it some thought to both, but then I discover Pitbull guitar kits.

https://www.pitbullguitars.com/guitars/

 

I bought a ES- 1G, ES-3 and a Bass kit....I only wanted the bodies and necks, everything is being modified to suit what I want....a unique custom shop guitar at a bargain basement price.....the only limitation is my imagination and my construction expertise.

 

Since real Gibsons and the kits of these two models are both made of Ply and either Maple or Mahogany, it seemed a no brainer to at least  try theses particular kits out.....especially when you see the quality of some of the current guitars coming out of Gibson's Nashville factory , not that good...their Acoustics from their Montana factory are still good.

I've bought totally new hardware, electronics, tuners and Kinman noiseless pickups for both [each set of pickups cost $250 more than each kit did LOL ]

Hey @@Tweaky, how are these builds going? I've just pulled the pin on a ES-175 kit from DIY guitars which seem to be much the same as the Pitbulls. Was going to also try the Jazzmaster but thought better to invest the elbowgrease and swearing into a flashy big semi accoustic. Going for the stock build and depending how it turns out aesthetics & playability wise I may upgrade the electrics. Like yourself I have a real 335 to use as a comparison base.

 

 http://www.diyguitars.com.au/product/gibson-es-175-hollow-body-guitar-kit-ath25/

 

Man if I could make it look any near like this

http://www.diyguitars.com.au/topic/my-ath-25-archtop-full-hollow-body-guitar-kit-build/page/2/#post-5882

 

Edit: OK found you http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=4988&highlight=tweaky

Edited February 17, 2016 by enikoy

[Muad Dib]

  On 17/02/2016 at 1:44 AM, enikoy said:

Hey @@Tweaky, how are these builds going? I've just pulled the pin on a ES-175 kit from DIY guitars which seem to be much the same as the Pitbulls. Was going to also try the Jazzmaster but thought better to invest the elbowgrease and swearing into a flashy big semi accoustic. Going for the stock build and depending how it turns out aesthetics & playability wise I may upgrade the electrics. Like yourself I have a real 335 to use as a comparison base.

 

 http://www.diyguitars.com.au/product/gibson-es-175-hollow-body-guitar-kit-ath25/

 

Man if I could make it look any near like this

http://www.diyguitars.com.au/topic/my-ath-25-archtop-full-hollow-body-guitar-kit-build/page/2/#post-5882

 

Edit: OK found you http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=4988&highlight=tweaky

 

on upgrading electrics. 

 

1) PITA to do once you have them installed in a semi.

 

2) Better pots (CTS, even Alpha) cost bugger all. Same with caps, unless you believe the ju ju. Even PIO vitamin Qs are only about 10 bucks.

 

3) Do it right first time, then you don't have to worry. 

 

Good luck. These guys are good for parts- https://www.guitaraust.com.au/ and I suggest Mick Brierly pickups. Strongly suggest, give him a buzz. 

[Tweaky]

Well I sort of got side tracked for a while doing other things, so the only real effort started earlier last week.

 

This is the neck of the ES-175 build, I shaped the headstock to look like a 50's Gibson....the inlays are stock, but when I got my micro mesh sanding stuff, I thought I'd try it out on  them, it really made the inlays pop....then staring at them for a week and a bit I though, No, they are not going to suit the build, so I have removed them and I'm going to replace them with MOP.

Here's a easy way to remove inlays if you ever want to do it, just get a piece of old cotton T-shirt material and a 40w soldering iron, wet the material and place over the inlay, then heat with the soldering iron, it heats the glue holding them in and you can just pick them out with a exacto knife..... it also doesn't heat up the frets, so there is no danger of then coming out, which is what would happen if you used a heat gun.

Here's some of the different shell I bought and have been testing, from L to R, White MOP, Gold MOP, Red Abalone, Green lipped Abalone...the pieces at the back are how the come from the supplier, the front bits have been polished up to 12000 grit.

I extended the neck heel on both necks, on the ES-175 build it was to cover a gap in the binding [before and after shots]...still needs some work, but it came out ok.

Same sort of thing with the ES335 build, except in a different place, I want to remove that piece of binding arrowed....the neck heel is now flush to the back of the guitar like my Gibson.

The ES335 build was routed for Humbuckers, here it is with the Kinman template for the P90's, and after I stuffed them up, sorry routed them out. [ the top cavity is a bit rough - but fixable]

 

I also had to enlarge the Tone / Volume pot holes from 8mm to 10mm on both guitars for the upgrade.

 

So that's basically where these builds are at ATM.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Tweaky

[betocool]

Lovely build @@Tweaky! Keep us posted!

[Muad Dib]

Top work!

[zenikoy]

  On 17/02/2016 at 6:17 AM, Tweaky said:

DSC0347.jpg

 

Wow, that top is going to have some flame when finished. Looking great as raw timber.

 

I'm thinking a "vintage" amber/honey stain for mine sealed with a satin lacquer.

Edited February 17, 2016 by enikoy

[Tweaky]

  On 17/02/2016 at 7:29 AM, enikoy said:

Wow, that top is going to have some flame when finished. Looking great as raw timber.

 

I'm thinking a "vintage" amber/honey stain for mine sealed with a satin lacquer.

 

Do yourself a favour and try to find as many build diaries of the same model you have to see both what people have done right, and how they have stuffed up [plenty of those as well, especially regarding finishes ]

 

I see plenty of guitar builds around the forums, and you see other builders posting and saying it looks great and the such, but for around 15% -20% of them I'm thinking, are you just being nice, or are you blind?....I know taste is personal, but God I've seen some ugly colour combinations and potato head headstocks.

I see those sort of builds and it immediately reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Homer designs a car

 

It does help if you have a Gibson or Fender etc to compare the kits against, I see how the kit suppliers have had to change the kits to circumvent copyright infringements, so I've come up with a few mods to improve them [like the heel extensions - still another extension for the ES175 build to come] , I've had these kits for several months, so I have had time to find solutions to little things that I know will irritate me if I leave them as is.

 

Trust us to pick two of the hardest guitar kits to build LoL ...oh well, they are cheap enough that if you did make a major stuff up you could just get another one [Pitbull has the option of ordering the kits without the hardware ]

[zog]

  On 14/02/2016 at 12:33 AM, zog said:

I'm considering buying another electric guitar later this year. Still in the window shopping phase right now.

 

Does anyone know how good the hollow body electrics along the lines of "Epiphone Emporer Swingster" and Ibenez Artcore play unplugged? I want an electric, with a tremelo arm, but also would be good to not have to plug in all the wires if I just want to sit and have a play like I have to do with my old telecaster. Doesn't have to be as loud as an acoustic.

 

 

..and then I stopped window shopping when I found something I liked second hand..

 

It's a "Dean Palomino" with after market bigsby tremelo fitted.. fun so far!

[zenikoy]

  On 17/02/2016 at 12:05 PM, zog said:

..and then I stopped window shopping when I found something I liked second hand..

IMG_5681.JPG

 

It's a "Dean Palomino" with after market bigsby tremelo fitted.. fun so far!

 

Dang, now why did I order a kit guitar?.. the challenge, right.

 

Beautiful guitar, enjoy!

[Tweaky]

Nice find, within budget obviously,... I see then online for $800 without a case, P90's [that don't hum going by the video below] and with Bigsby which for that model is at least $250 ! Well done.

The pickup selection seemed different to me, so I did a search to see how your Dean is configured, found a video of somebody showing all the different sounds you can get out of it...... I like the middle particularly .

 

The only thing I might change on it would be the nut, change it for a bone one rather than plastic

Edited February 17, 2016 by Tweaky

[zenikoy]

  On 17/02/2016 at 8:32 AM, Tweaky said:

Do yourself a favour and try to find as many build diaries of the same model you have to see both what people have done right, and how they have stuffed up [plenty of those as well, especially regarding finishes ]

 

I see plenty of guitar builds around the forums, and you see other builders posting and saying it looks great and the such, but for around 15% -20% of them I'm thinking, are you just being nice, or are you blind?....I know taste is personal, but God I've seen some ugly colour combinations and potato head headstocks.

I see those sort of builds and it immediately reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Homer designs a car

 

It does help if you have a Gibson or Fender etc to compare the kits against, I see how the kit suppliers have had to change the kits to circumvent copyright infringements, so I've come up with a few mods to improve them [like the heel extensions - still another extension for the ES175 build to come] , I've had these kits for several months, so I have had time to find solutions to little things that I know will irritate me if I leave them as is.

 

Trust us to pick two of the hardest guitar kits to build LoL ...oh well, they are cheap enough that if you did make a major stuff up you could just get another one [Pitbull has the option of ordering the kits without the hardware ]

 

Well the ES-175ish kit arrived yesterday and I'm pleasantly surprised with the body quality and keen to get on with it. I was half prepared for disaster. I neck looks good and it fitted to the body as well as I had hoped for, tightness, position and aesthetically (gaps & fit) wise. Actually mocked up a couple of strings over the nut to the bridge (held in position by hand) and things line up, so a good start.

 

Fittings, yeah that's another story, not looking too great on that front. Hoping for adequate at best.

 

Plan is to get the body together, do the finish, string it up and set up without electricals. Then dependent on how I feel with it, either install the supplied electrics or buy some nice stuff or mix.

 

Think I'll start another thread for when I start putting it together.

[WhoRu?]

Hello old friend...

[Tweaky]

  On 01/03/2016 at 1:28 AM, enikoy said:

Well the ES-175ish kit arrived yesterday and I'm pleasantly surprised with the body quality and keen to get on with it. I was half prepared for disaster. I neck looks good and it fitted to the body as well as I had hoped for, tightness, position and aesthetically (gaps & fit) wise. Actually mocked up a couple of strings over the nut to the bridge (held in position by hand) and things line up, so a good start.

 

Fittings, yeah that's another story, not looking too great on that front. Hoping for adequate at best.

 

Plan is to get the body together, do the finish, string it up and set up without electricals. Then dependent on how I feel with it, either install the supplied electrics or buy some nice stuff or mix.

 

Think I'll start another thread for when I start putting it together.

 

A couple of things.

First is with this kit, unless you  intend to have both body and neck totally the same colour, do all need work on each first, including the finish, then join the neck to the body...... That's the way Gibson does it, and they do it for a reason.

 

I've planned some mod's on my kit where the neck joins the body [they were supposed to be finished this weekend, but it ended up I didn't get the free time to do it],you can see the heel extension in one of my previous posts above.

Also I'm not going to use the stud bridge holder on mine, I'm going to plug those holes on the body with maple...... I just got a Ebony floating bridge that fits the Tunomatic bridge onto it, that will cover up those holes.

 

The best upgrades for this kit,

IMHO this is in order of how you would want to do it.

I'd do the electronics/ wiring first, as it's both relatively cheap, and upgrading the Tone/Volume pots means enlarging the holes on the body [The kit has Jap spec'd 8mm holes, where Boyle replacement types are 10mm ], so best to do that before you start putting a finish on the body....also, wiring semi's up is really something you only want to do once if you can help it, it's the biggest PITA job of the whole kit.....although wiring a ES175  would be considerably easier than a ES335, just because you have a lot more room to work with.

Example of the upgrade I went with

http://www.realparts.com.au/wiring-kits/gibson-style/wiring-upgrade-kit-for-335-guitars.html

 

The NUT, it's a horrible plastic thing ..... here is a tip... contact Dingobone [ a mod at the Pitbull forum ], tell him what kit you have and get him to make you a new bone replacement nut.... he has offered to do it for anybody at the forum [for a nominal fee], as he just bought a new gizmo from Stewart Mac that allows him to make nut's in about 15 minutes ...cheaper than having to buy blanks, and nut files then doing the job yourself.

 

Pickups you can do later, but I would choose sooner rather than later, as the supplied ones are pretty much rubbish from what I've read.... you don't have to spend a fortune, maybe look for some used Gibson P.A.F's on Ebay, as people tend to change those out from Les Pauls and put in hotter pickups in their place.....these would be perfect for this build as they are to Gibson spec.

 

Tuners aren't that expensive to replace, depends what you want.... but I would definitely replace those supplied with the kit.

If you want any help regarding this build/ upgrades just post here or PM me.

 

I've found this Aus site : Realtone : to be the best for getting all the stuff needed to upgrade you guitar at a fair price, and they are super quick with delivery, pretty much next day from my experience.

http://www.realparts.com.au/

Edited March 1, 2016 by Tweaky

[zenikoy]

Short thanks for all that advice! Taking it all on board. We need to move this to another thread.

The full upgrade from real parts looks very tempting. Also looking to re-store my 335 to Kluson tuners as it had been converted to Gotoh/Grovers before I bought it, so those would be freed up for the kit.

[Tweaky]

Well I think the Gotoh/ Grovers might actually be better than the Klusons ...???

I think the reason they might of been changed on your Gibson is because Clapton and others changed theirs years ago, and I also reckon that if you do a lot of string bending [ to the extreme ] like them, maybe the Klusons weren't cutting it.

[A lot of this stuff is subjective anyway, as a lot of people have never learned to string a guitar up properly so the strings don't slip from the tuners ]

 

I bought Gold Klusons for my  same build, mainly for atheistic reasons and knowing that this guitar will pretty much be set up as a Jazz box, and not much string bending is going to be done on it, so the Kluson's should be OK for this build.....I opted for button knob Gotoh kluson type on my ES-335 build though, for the reason above.

 

I've got the sort of reverse situation as you on my Fender US Tele, it's got locking tuners on it  which I have come to dislike, and want to put replacement standard Fender tuners on it.

 

PS: RE changing the wiring / pots, if you do it you are going to need get new knobs for them as well, for the same reason... the ones supplied won't fit on the new pot shaft

Edited March 1, 2016 by Tweaky