Guitars

[gator2310]

Hi John -  is it going sharp in the higher register or over the whole string?

The G nylon string is an ongoing problem because its too heavy for a plain string and often doesnt intone well especially at the first fret. There are high tension wound G strings and also Savarez and D'Addario have composite and alloy sets with G strings made from various materials - I use the D'Addario Pro Arte Composites and the G is definitely better.

 

 

[MusicOne]

4 minutes ago, gator2310 said:

Hi John -  is it going sharp in the higher register or over the whole string?

The G nylon string is an ongoing problem because its too heavy for a plain string and often doesnt intone well especially at the first fret. There are high tension wound G strings and also Savarez and D'Addario have composite and alloy sets with G strings made from various materials - I use the D'Addario Pro Arte Composites and the G is definitely better.

 

 

 

Hi mate. Yes, I'm also using D'Addario Pro Arte with a carbon G string. The entire string goes sharp and I'm constantly re-tuning it.

[MusicOne]

@gator2310  Also, I've got myself a couple of sets of these strings (https://www.stringsbymail.com/dogal-maestrale-classical-guitar-strings-reg-tension-nr168b-full-set-16496.html), which are quite expensive, but I haven't put them on as yet. They're blue in colour....at least the treble strings are...the bass strings are sealed in a separate plastic container.....all looks very swish.

 

Edited October 25, 2017 by MusicOne

[Tweaky]

It might be that you are pulling the string too far through the G string tuner before you start winding it on, which would basically have the same effect as too acute a string angle across the nut that Gibson guitars suffer.

If you had a few winds around the tuning peg first , and have the string getting closer to the center of the headstock it would be lessening the angle, at any rate, going sharp would mean that as you are playing, the string is getting pulled slightly towards the bridge, one can only deduce that indeed your G string is indeed getting caught in the nut.

Use the old pencil rubbed into the offending nut slot trick and see if things improve [a soft 2B or softer], the pencils graphite will work as a dry lubricant.

 

While we are on the topic, as I mention previously, I intend to put several posts on my Gibson style KIT builds that replicate what the String Butler does.

I went to Hobbyco in the city on my way home from work the other day just to see if they might have something suitable, must of been my lucky day.

I bought two 36" lengths of Brass tubing [Stock #1149 - 1/4 X .014 which was $11.50 and Stock#1148 7/32 X.014 which was $9.95 ] the latter tubing fits exactly inside the former.

All I need to do is cut the inner tubing to 10mm length and the outer to 9mm, place one inside the other [perhaps a very thin coating of Teflon lubricant between them] then screw them down onto the head stock in a equivalent position as where the posts end up with the String Butler.

They would do the same job as the String Butler, but without the need for a base plate, and I suspect hardly noticeable.

 

I've got enough tubing to make 20 set's of 4 string trees, and the reason I chose Brass for this little experiment is that I have the book called 'The Colouring, Bronzing and Patination of Metals'

https://www.amazon.com/Colouring-Bronzing-Patination-Metals/dp/0823007626

It's the Bible of this sort of thing, and gives recipes and techniques on how to change a Metal's colour [see below of a small sample of what you can do with standard Brass].

Hopefully I can get some sort of technique down pat to get repeatable results, this sort of thing is very hit and miss at first.

 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Tweaky

[Tweaky]

I've just been reading through the Sept 2017 of Sound on Sound magazine and came across a review of some interesting software that I hadn't heard of before.

 

It's called Jam Origin MIDI Guitar 2, which is obviously a update of the original, what it does is allows you to use any electrified guitars standard fitted pickup to input MIDI data into a PC/Mac.

Really, up until now, to get good results inputting MIDI data Guitarists needed to get a keyboard of some description, which meant learning a new instrument.

OR

If really determined to use a guitar to input MIDI data, the only other option available previously available to Guitarist's has been if their guitars had a specialized HEX pickup installed, and pretty much all of them have problems tracking, even the newest expensive ones [Think Fishman Tripleplay -AUS $699 -ouch!].

 

This software uses modified algorithms as used in speech recognition software, and as I've recently viewed in the YouTube video below [and a few others] works amazingly well, and just as the magazine review said it does.

The real surprise is just how cheap this software is....AUS $ 135

https://www.jamorigin.com/

Below is a link to Sound on Sounds equally 'Rave' review of the original version of this software, the current review of version 2 isn't able to be read online for free as yet [becomes so 6 months after the print version]

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/jam-origin-midi-guitar

 

Well worth checking out IMHO if you are mainly a guitarist but have been fumbling your way around a piano keyboard trying to get MIDI data to play from your DAW's sound library.

 

 

[gator2310]

Yes I have been a jam origin user for a couple of years - first using a dedicated recording interface and now using IRig. I had a long break from guitar synths (started using them in the 80's) and started looking looking into the newer options in about 2015. Interestingly since the late 80's and my first guitar synth pickup , the GK-2 , there has only been one update from Roland , the Gk-3 and more recently the fishman, all of which add outboard hardware to your guitar - and in the case of the roland stuff, the heavy, expensive and fragile 13 pin din cable.

The newer technology has been adopted in Boss' SY300 (which is still Roland) , but notably,  has no input for Rolands cable , just normal guitar and midi inputs. But the price tag is still right up there.

Jam origin is cheap but does require some kind of interface. However the IRig base model (adequate for synth use) runs to less than 100 bucks (I think). I have the HD2 version which was around 150 bucks.

Tracking is somewhat patch dependent. It's certainly no worse than the GK-2 but I couldnt compare it to the GK-3 or Fishman as I haven't used those.

You also need software synths with pro sound collections running from around 50 bucks upward, but there are also freeware synths around too. Its a much smarter platform not just because its cheaper but allows for expansion on a sound by sound basis and like in app purchases allows for those who are really into it to sustain the market on a day by day basis.

 

Although I think the technology in some of those classic platforms like Rolands Gr300 and its matching guitar (which were great instruments btw) , and Casio's surprisingly good midi guitar matched a decent instrument with synth capability -, the new technology allows you to plug your favourite guitar into the synth world without drilling and attaching more stuff to it. Pretty cool.

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by gator2310

[caddisgeek]

Bought my first guitar in over 20 years this week. Ibanez PF, electric acoustic. Only cost me 30 bucks because the pickup is dodgy, scratchplate is missing and someone had gone at it with a sharpie and white out pen. Not worried about the pick up as it will never get plugged in and a bit of elbow grease cleaned up most of the mess (will give it a proper spruce up when I change the strings). Plays nice, stays in tune and the intonation is pretty good as well. Pretty happy all round

 

 

[MusicOne]

I bit of an update on my progress with the classical guitar.

 

The whole subject of technique, is one which many students find either daunting or boring....or maybe even both. Here is a video with a few tips on practicing technique:

 

 

 

As a technique tragic, I don't need to be inspired to practice this aspect, in fact, I practice almost nothing else but technique. I've given myself 2 years to master the essentials of classical guitar technique, so at this stage of my development, I'm not playing many pieces and those few I do play, I use as sounding-boards or areas where I can put into practice what techniques I've been able to master (at least to some extent).

 

Regarding the use of metronomes. In the video above, he recommends the use of a metronome while practicing (at least for some of the time) Way back when I was learning the piano....in my teens and very early 20s, my then teacher was quite opposed to their use.....in those days of course, they were all mechanical devices which required regular rewinding. I'm inclined to agree with her in as much that if overused, they can become a crutch and students then find it difficult to practice without one. As I have a good sense of time and the like, I don't need to use one, but on the few occasions when I have tried to use a metronome while practicing, I have found it very off-putting....too distracting. Because as a young person I played in many groups....bands, small orchestras and choirs, etc, I naturally acquired a good sense of time and rhythm, which I retain to this day.

 

Still enjoying the journey immensely.

Edited December 16, 2017 by MusicOne

[LogicprObe]

 

Geeze............two years doesn't sound very long!

 

Over 40 years..............and I still haven't mastered the Blues!

[MusicOne]

59 minutes ago, LogicprObe said:

 

Geeze............two years doesn't sound very long!

 

Over 40 years..............and I still haven't mastered the Blues!

 

Keep at it mate....you CAN do it. Must say, I'm finding things much more difficult to master now that I've reached the ripe old age of 70. When I was young, I'm sure I would have progressed much more rapidly. They say learning a musical instrument at my age is an excellent preventative against Alzhiemer's...well see...bloody hope so....I certainly wouldn't want to disappear into that fog.

[LogicprObe]

 

Speak up sonny.............I can't hear you!

[MusicOne]

I've come to the conclusion that life's simply not fair......how come this guy (Tavi Jinariu) has killer good looks, as well as breathtaking technique and musicality.....what a performance.

 

Turn up the volume (way up) and listen to these:

 

 

 

 

[Tweaky]

MusicOne

Have a watch of this video of George Morel [guessing from the 80-90's judging by the hair cut]

 

 

This is just a example of what I really want you to go out and find / listen to.

Try and get a copy of Jorge's Morel's original DECCA recording of his interpretation of Bernstein's 'West Side Story'....it's a Masterpiece.

There are several versions to be viewed/ heard on YouTube, but they are either swamped with too much emphasis on technique , which slows everything down, result is loss of either Rhythm or Passion, or the reverse, the guitarist speeds up too much, losing the passion of the song......it's a fine line...I must of listened to the Jorges original over 500 times, very few have come close.

That's why I didn't bother with putting links up of 'Valid Attempts"

 

I was with the man that gave me the passion for guitar at a age of 12, at Ashwoods secondhand record shop in pitt st in Sydney in the early 70's, and I came across this record in the used bin....I had sod all money, so I asked him if he would get it for me....he said yes  but only if I learned how to play the songs that were on it, I agreed, thinking he was going to show me, since he was a Pro Guitarist......wrong....he said I had to Listen and work it out myself.....his reasoning was, every guitarist will come up with a way to play the same song....best lesson I've ever learn't.

 

[MusicOne]

@Tweaky  Just while I'm listening/watching that clip, I see that he positions his guitar right where I position mine.....though I use a footstool. I'm finding the more upright the guitar is, the easier it is to reach 1st position....you don't have to lean out (the left shoulder isn't extended), if you know what I mean. Great performance too....thanks.

 

P.S.....sorry, I meant left shoulder, not right.

Edited December 19, 2017 by MusicOne

[Tweaky]

I loathed being structured to being seated one way or another.

I have always let the song I'm attempting to play decide that, some you really wan't to keep track of your fingering, others your picking.....no seating position suits both, well from my perspective.

Not that I've done Concerto's, but it stands to reason, not every technique needs, or will be got by, staying in a single position, for the duration of the musical piece being played....it's just natural when you think about it.

You need the freedom to adjust to suit, and play ahead for what you are about to play, and then again after that.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Tweaky

[MusicOne]

4 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

I loathed being structured to being seated one way or another.

I have always let the song I'm attempting to play decide that, some you really wan't to keep track of your fingering, others your picking.....no seating position suits both, well from my perspective.

Not that I've done Concerto's, but it stands to reason, not every technique needs, or will be got by, staying in a single position, for the duration of the musical piece being played....it's just natural when you think about it.

You need the freedom to adjust to suit.

 

I'd agree with that....totally....it's just that when I'm learning, I find it's easier to adopt a single position, so that I can concentrate on what I'm doing with my fingers. I have a natural tendency to move (or sway slightly) with the flow and rhythm of the music....just have to keep a firm hold of myself while I'm still in the learning phase. Cheers Tweaky.

[Tweaky]

Moving is OK / COOL

Just make sure you do it as a whole, not as a apart... That's the trick

Hell Gypsies have been getting away with it successfully for centuries

[MusicOne]

You know it's funny.....just watching that Tavi Jinariu clip above, I'm thinking how differently I'd play that piece....Cavatina.....a beautiful melody, which Tavi doesn't really exploit to the best effect.....not enough light and shade (or dynamics)....still, each to his own, I guess.

 

I wouldn't have started mf but p and then built up from there. Another thing....Tavi's legato sometimes lets him down, but I'd give anything to be able to play as well as him ....oh well.

Edited December 19, 2017 by MusicOne

[MusicOne]

In the tango (in the clip above) Tavi gets it just right I think.....tremendous attack and marvelous articulation.....I'm totally envious.

[MusicOne]

Another of Tavi Jinariu's performances...this time the famous Recuerdos

 

 

Now this is definitely not the best performance I've heard of the piece. In particular, Tavi's dynamics (or lack of them) is disappointing. Also, he's obviously not fond of tremolo, because he hasn't perfected it at all....maybe he just avoids tremolo.

 

Tavi needs to fall in love and have his heart broken a few times before he'll perfect dynamics.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by MusicOne

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

56 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

I loathed being structured to being seated one way or another.

I have always let the song I'm attempting to play decide that, some you really wan't to keep track of your fingering, others your picking.....no seating position suits both, well from my perspective.

Not that I've done Concerto's, but it stands to reason, not every technique needs, or will be got by, staying in a single position, for the duration of the musical piece being played....it's just natural when you think about it.

You need the freedom to adjust to suit, and play ahead for what you are about to play, and then again after that.

I'd disagree with that. The best way to play is to have the guitar in the one position as best you possibly can, relative to your body. The hands can then move to the required positions. The same applies even to the most mobile rock guitarist - the good ones may move around on stage, but anything tricky and you'll see them come back to the same relative position for their upper body and instrument. (well, maybe not Hendrix...). For classical, get the guitar in the same place relative to the legs and lower body, and the arms, hands, and the upper body (when required) can move around it and go automatically to the right places.

Here's a clip (a whole 35 views!) of Sydney's Duo Agostino. Sound's not perfect... but watch how much they (don't) look at their guitars while playing. And the link to the next section of that concert, the Richard Charlton settings of some Spike Milligan pieces.

 

 

 

[MusicOne]

Here's a much better performance by the great Pepe Romero....not as good a recording as Tavi's, so you'll need to turn the volume way up:

 

 

Notice Pepe's dynamics and his smooth tremolo.....this is just right.

 

[Tweaky]

20 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

I'd disagree with that. The best way to play is to have the guitar in the one position as best you possibly can, relative to your body. The hands can then move to the required positions. The same applies even to the most mobile rock guitarist - the good ones may move around on stage, but anything tricky and you'll see them come back to the same relative position for their upper body and instrument. (well, maybe not Hendrix...). For classical, get the guitar in the same place relative to the legs and lower body, and the arms, hands, and the upper body (when required) can move around it and go automatically to the right places.

Here's a clip (a whole 35 views!) of Sydney's Duo Agostino. Sound's not perfect... but watch how much they (don't) look at their guitars while playing. And the link to the next section of that concert, the Richard Charlton settings of some Spike Milligan pieces.

 

 

 

Also notice that each Guitarist chooses a different position to hold their guitar at !

It.s NOT size related, it comes down to what works for them.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

38 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

Also notice that each Guitarist chooses a different position to hold their guitar at !

It.s NOT size related, it comes down to what works for them.

WIthin limits, correct. Get it wrong and pain awaits... you can trust me on that.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

1 hour ago, MusicOne said:

Here's a much better performance by the great Pepe Romero....not as good a recording as Tavi's, so you'll need to turn the volume way up:

 

 

Notice Pepe's dynamics and his smooth tremolo.....this is just right.

 

I must be in a contrary mood tonight - Pepe's Recuerdos isn't to my taste, the tune is in the tremolo line and his accompaniment always seems to be louder (that's the case on his various recordings of the piece as well). The playing of his father's suite, on the other hand, shows why he is one of the greats. This is a real guitarist's video as well, lots of close up of the hands at the right times to appreciate what he's doing.