thevoice Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 The video is pure marketing hype? What about those dacs using sabre or burr brown?
Guest AndrewC Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 The video is pure marketing hype? What about those dacs using sabre or burr brown? Nope, that video's not overly hyped at all, it’s pretty much all true. Though some of what they describe of the Chord is also used on DACs with merchant silicon, for example using good crystals oscillators :)
Doggie Howser Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 The video is pure marketing hype? What about those dacs using sabre or burr brown? Strictly speaking the FPGA isn't a DAC - it is just a programmable processor that can handle complex DSP calculations which would normally be taxing for a general purpose processor. What it allows the DAC designer to do is to create these complex algorithms and reprogram them in conjunction with a whole bunch of external chips - clocks etc to work as a DAC. The general consensus is that in a small integrated circuit DAC, compromises have to be made - in the way the clock signals are routed and some trade offs are done to work in an IC. And the truth is that most FPGA DACs do sound good. The Chord DAC64 was the first one I ever heard that used that architecture and it was phenomenal and I was eventually sold on the EMM Labs and Playback Designs architecture. Others include dCS. The PS Audio DS DAC was the one that hit the home run for me especially with Ted Smith optimising the OS/firmware to make big gains. dCS has also recently made huge strides in just a firmware update. It's like getting a brand new DAC for free. These days you can get an FPGA DAC for less than $1000 - the Chord Mojo is only $899 RRP in Australia and it uses just an impressive an FPGA! For the price difference between say an Oppo HA2/SE for $499... I'd say it's almost a no brainer.
thevoice Posted December 10, 2016 Author Posted December 10, 2016 What about tube cp player or dac vs fpga?
Doggie Howser Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 What about tube cp player or dac vs fpga? Strictly speaking a tube CDP or DAC is still a chip based DAC but using tubes on the output stage. You could theoretically use tube circuits on an FPGA based DAC. But just that no one has done it to my knowledge.
thevoice Posted December 10, 2016 Author Posted December 10, 2016 This lamp looks like something that can easily empty my bank account. Pass. The fpga is very good across all bandwidth but lack the magical mid.
Doggie Howser Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 https://www.esoteric.jp/en/product/k-01xd/top Looks like Esoteric has abandoned the AKM and now embraced FPGA DACs as well.
Doggie Howser Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 Oh dear, can I boldly ask for the MRSP? (Audio) https://www.avgallery.com.au/shop/electronics/cd-sacd-players/esoteric-k-01xd-cd-sacd-player/ I can check friend price :D
Guest francishuang Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 I think it's around 18 20k here in sg The K1X is 30ish
shadowmoses Posted April 3, 2020 Posted April 3, 2020 FPGA is just a means to an end. It allows a designer to essentially design his/her own dac chip and implement it in hardware without an expensive custom silicon run. Custom silicon runs in the audio-world are extremely rare due to the high cost involved. However, one example that comes to mind are the silicon carbide power vfets used in the Firstwatt SIT series of power amplifiers. (which is what makes that unique amongst power amps I would say. Good or not is based on individual taste and matching with the right speakers) If anyone knows of other examples, please share! I would like to find out more. Going back to the dac discussion, the quality of the fpga dac (vs. chip dac) goes back to the quality of the design of the dac function itself. I would agree in general that fpga dacs do sound better than chip dacs. IMO the main reason for this is that the designers of fpga dacs from audiophile companies purely focus on the audiophile market, whereas chip dacs are designed with a broader audience in mind, i.e. they have to cater to the general consumer electronics market which is a much larger market segment. A potential counter-argument to this is that the R&D budget from chip dac companies (full-fledged semiconductor companies the likes of ESS, TI, AK) are much larger and can pour in more investment into a dac design, plus it is fully manifested in hardware. if FPGA is so good, why isn't it more common? A few reasons: - there are very few designers in the world that have the capability (primarily digital/mixed signal IC design) to design good dac functions. Most are presumably working for semiconductor companies already. - cost: I would argue it goes back to the availability and cost of such designers due to their rarity. It is true that FPGA chips themselves are expensive, probably hundreds of times more expensive than a dac chip (I say dac chip because I refer to the cost of the chip itself), but in the grand scheme of things and compared to the overall prices of dacs these days, it only makes up a small percentage. A side-note but related point: you may notice that DSD DACs are mainly implemented in FPGA (Denafrips terminator and Holo Spring are 2 notable exceptions, decoding DSD through a R2R approach). Again, this goes back to the point that dedicated DSD dac chips (aka 1-bit chips) have been discontinued for a long time and availability is rare. Hence, the need to implement in FPGA in order to avoid a custom silicon run. Why has it been discontinued? Most likely lack of market, the audiophile market is too niche to support the development and production of 1-bit chips. The positioning of R2R dacs is very similar to FPGA dacs as well, both are alternative implementations of a dac function without using a dac chip. The last point I wish to reiterate is that even amongst chip dacs, the overall implementation makes a difference. A recent shootout of 10 dacs makes this point quite well, so I won't repeat. You can find it here. https://alpha-audio.net/review/multitest-d-a-converters-1500-2500-euro/2/ Personally, most of my serious dacs are FPGA based, due to my preference for DSD dacs. i am currently enjoying an Audiobyte Vox very much, and another based on a Playback Designs design. I am keen to try a Chord Qutest next, just to experiment with a PCM based FPGA design, although i have not liked the general Chord sound signature.
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