ronildoq Posted September 7, 2018 Posted September 7, 2018 Sony PJ at cedia 2018.. The Price for the 295 model, up from previous model 285, is the same at usd5k... some new features added, input lag , 18g etc Those sitting and waiting for prices to drop... the wait is like forever... They still have Dolby vision, hdmi 2.1 , HDR10+ not added to the pj, expect next model to add some of these features, but price to be retained again.... Same marketing strategy.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
strauss Posted December 15, 2018 Posted December 15, 2018 Hi to all bro , Any news or updates that Sony will release PJ model with Dolby vision and HDR10+ . soon.Hope to see them in 2019
Doggie Howser Posted December 15, 2018 Posted December 15, 2018 HDR isn't really designed for projectors. You can't even get 500 nits. Much less 1000/2000/4000/8000 nits so even harder to do Dolby Vision/HDR10+. Sony engineers talked about Dolby Vision at the launch of the 760ES but they have not even had any improvements in functionality in any new firmware (even though the official firmware went from 8.002 to 8.003) so don't hold your breath. JVC did say they were considering implementing HDR10+ on the NX9 and follow up with a firmware update on the Z1 to implement the same..
strauss Posted December 15, 2018 Posted December 15, 2018 Hi Doggie Howser, Thanks for the useful information.
desray Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 HDR isn't really designed for projectors. You can't even get 500 nits. Much less 1000/2000/4000/8000 nits so even harder to do Dolby Vision/HDR10+. Sony engineers talked about Dolby Vision at the launch of the 760ES but they have not even had any improvements in functionality in any new firmware (even though the official firmware went from 8.002 to 8.003) so don't hold your breath. JVC did say they were considering implementing HDR10+ on the NX9 and follow up with a firmware update on the Z1 to implement the same.. Yes Doggie is correct on this...current batch of 4K (regardless native or non-native) will never be able to rival its TV brethren...at least not at the moment. I'm eyeing on the new JVC NX series with true native 4K panel but unfortunately still a lamp based. But this is not going to affect my decision this time round. While I do not have the opportunity to play with the 760ES and what is the peak brightness level projecting a HDR picture, I can say JVC seems to know what they are trying to achieve here for the best of both worlds - i.e. SDR and HDR content. I will reserve my comments for now since I have yet to review the unit myself. But based on come of the reviews (piecemeal basis) littered all over the internet. It seems like the maximum JVC is aiming for will 1,000 nits brightness when performing their Auto True Tone mapping of HDR content. Using a mercury-based lamp output is probably its weakest link here...I hope to see that JVC will also be doing a thorough testing on their "new" lamp module which confirm to spot a higher watt for sustained period of HDR viewing content at full brightness, to last longer. Still there is no news from JVC Singapore that the newer models will hit our little island anytime. :(
Doggie Howser Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 I have to say the Benq LK990 prototype I tested with 6000 lumens was surprisingly good with HDR. Black levels in a pure dark room on a 150” display was not an issue. But the pop and punch of HDR was stunning.
desray Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 I have to say the Benq LK990 prototype I tested with 6000 lumens was surprisingly good with HDR. Black levels in a pure dark room on a 150” display was not an issue. But the pop and punch of HDR was stunning. While brightness (lumens) is important - more important is how the display (Projector or TV) can do proper tone-mapping to take advantage of HDR and its numerous variants. It can be overly bright and strained the eyes if everything is "way too bright" in a dark room. IMHO, if done right, there is really no need to go beyond 1,000 nits if shadow details could be easily discerned along with BT2020 achieving somewhere in the ballpark of 75% of DCI-P3 minimally.
Doggie Howser Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 While brightness (lumens) is important - more important is how the display (Projector or TV) can do proper tone-mapping to take advantage of HDR and its numerous variants. It can be overly bright and strained the eyes if everything is "way too bright" in a dark room. IMHO, if done right, there is really no need to go beyond 1,000 nits if shadow details could be easily discerned along with BT2020 achieving somewhere in the ballpark of 75% of DCI-P3 minimally. I don’t think 6000 lumens is even enough to do 2000 nits.
desray Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 I don’t think 6000 lumens is even enough to do 1000 nits. Not sure whether it could at this point since I don't have one for my review and also the lack of proper equipment to test...but to me, Projector just ain't gonna do crazy brightness for HDR content at this point since most will employ the use of some kind of Cinema filter to achieve near 100% DCI-P3 color gamut and this is unfortunate due to brightness level reduced to near 50% in some drastic case. This is the achilles heel for most if not ALL existing 4K projectors in the market right now. But that is not what I'm trying to do with Projector at this point, with the help of tone-mapping, hopefully the Projector itself can "moderate" "intelligently on the fly for "certain scenes" in a HDR 4K scenes...NOT every scene requires more than 1,000 nits but it is good to know that IF a Projector can hit that range when the occasion calls for it.
c7221624705751 Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 Since PJ brightness is no where near the level HDR needs, does any one use oppo's HDR->SDR conversion to mitigate this ? Does it look better than without this conversion for PJs who "claim" HDR but is really too dark ? e.g. this Sony ? (or other "4K HDR" models like the 260/360/550 etc)
desray Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 Since PJ brightness is no where near the level HDR needs, does any one use oppo's HDR->SDR conversion to mitigate this ? Does it look better than without this conversion for PJs who "claim" HDR but is really too dark ? e.g. this Sony ? (or other "4K HDR" models like the 260/360/550 etc) Of course you can if you strip the HDR meta in order to get the SDR (Rec 709). The brightness will be restored but that is not what we want. We want to enjoy wider color gamut like DCI-P3/BT2020 but for that to work, HDR will have to be invoked.
Doggie Howser Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 Since PJ brightness is no where near the level HDR needs, does any one use oppo's HDR->SDR conversion to mitigate this ? Does it look better than without this conversion for PJs who "claim" HDR but is really too dark ? e.g. this Sony ? (or other "4K HDR" models like the 260/360/550 etc) Panasonic UB820 And Oppo 20x both allow HDR/2020 to SDR/2020 conversion so theoretically BT2020 color space is retained. However I’m guessing that in most projectors, it’s not handling BT2020 correctly when receiving SDR. It takes BT2020 but converts it internally to Rec709. When I use the Oppo or Panasonic to do SDR/2020 conversion, my Marantz volume bar overlay looks (dark yellow) same as it does on Rec709. When I leave it I. HDR mode, the color is more intense Orange. That said, Panasonic has an HDR optimizer mode that works in HDR mode and it keeps the HDR signal and it retains a lot of that pop. Dark scenes like Black Panther now retain the pop and shadow details on the projector in this mode without the deleterious effect of SDR/2020 conversion.
c7221624705751 Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 yes I meant HDR->SDR+BT2020. SDR+BT2020 is not a standard, but Oppo does it, and my question is really: is the Sony projector being fed a SDR+BT2020 looks better than being fed original HDR? Especially since Oppo can let you specify the max nits your PJ can do, theoretically it should work. I read many PJs handle SDR+BT2020 poorly with all sorts of wield results (like clipping it at Rec709 levels). I wonder any members here can comment if your Sony (and JVC) can handle it properly. DH: did you try feeding oppo directly to the PJ (while doing the HDR->SDR+BT2020) ? Could it be the marantz avr that is confused by the input and is messing it up ? Panasonic "HDR optimizer" sounds cool, seems to be doing the right thing. Oppo guys should be able to do it too... (I hope)
Doggie Howser Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 Never tried direct connecting the Oppo to the Sony (or the JVC X9500 or BenQ LK990 when I had them) AFAIK the LK990 didn't handle SDR/BT2020 correctly either (if the Marantz AVR volume bar was a correct indication). I vaguely recall the JVC did the same thing
desray Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 I sold off my Oppo long time ago and I also did not try out the SDR/BT2020 option "extensively" as I don't see the point at that time to do it since I am so eager to switch to HDR whenever there is an opportunity. Nevertheless I did try one time and I must the PQ did not "look right" at that time...though I can't really recall "what didn't seem right" as I didn't do any form of meaningful comparison or measurement. I think the problem lies with the "conversion" process which only make the overall PQ brighter since the HDR meta data was stripped but what anomalies it introduced during the conversion process? Well, nobody knows. Suffice to say, it did not make me wanna ever switch back to the SDR/BT2020 option even though Oppo has it.
c7221624705751 Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 DH: you use Panasonic's HDR Optimiser on the 760ES ? what's the target nits you select ? 1000 nits ?
Doggie Howser Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 As far as I can recall, Panasonic 820 doesn’t do 1000 nits or an actual number. For SDR conversion, you have high luminance tv, mid luminance tv and low luminance/projector. I think there is one setting for OLED too. HDR optimizer (in HDR mode) there is a slider, I set it to +3
Doggie Howser Posted November 9, 2019 Posted November 9, 2019 Just got my 760ES upgraded to v8.102 This puts the firmware and feature set almost on par with the 870ES - including dynamic iris control (to augment the laser power control) and dynamic focus adjustment to improve sharpness in ages. First movie to test it with - Black Panther. Have to say the improvements were very very stark. When I watched this movie on the Sony with the factory firmware and the UB820, it was just about watchable in the dark scenes (the apartment and the jungle in the first couple of scenes). Now it is actually very watchable.
desray Posted November 9, 2019 Posted November 9, 2019 Just got my 760ES upgraded to v8.102 This puts the firmware and feature set almost on par with the 870ES - including dynamic iris control (to augment the laser power control) and dynamic focus adjustment to improve sharpness in ages. First movie to test it with - Black Panther. Have to say the improvements were very very stark. When I watched this movie on the Sony with the factory firmware and the UB820, it was just about watchable in the dark scenes (the apartment and the jungle in the first couple of scenes). Now it is actually very watchable. You need to send in the projector to the service center to do a firmware upgrade?
Doggie Howser Posted November 10, 2019 Posted November 10, 2019 You need to send in the projector to the service center to do a firmware upgrade? Nope. Just a Windows PC and a USB stick. Even though the site says it can work on a Mac, I couldn’t get it to work. I did the first update a few months back 8.001 to 8.004 which fixed the AppleTV HDR sync issue. For that I was able to use my MacBook Pro in BootCamp running Windows to format a USB stick and copied the files over. For this latest update even the BootCamp method didn’t work. So I had a spare Windows HTPC which I no longer use - got it hooked up and did the downloading and copying of the files. This is from the UK site - but it was sent from the local Sony rep in Australia so I reckon the upgrade is for all 760ES not just the UK ones. https://pro.sony/en_GB/product-resources/software-firmware/vpl-vw760es-firmware-update-8102
desray Posted November 10, 2019 Posted November 10, 2019 Nope. Just a Windows PC and a USB stick. Even though the site says it can work on a Mac, I couldn’t get it to work. I did the first update a few months back 8.001 to 8.004 which fixed the AppleTV HDR sync issue. For that I was able to use my MacBook Pro in BootCamp running Windows to format a USB stick and copied the files over. For this latest update even the BootCamp method didn’t work. So I had a spare Windows HTPC which I no longer use - got it hooked up and did the downloading and copying of the files. This is from the UK site - but it was sent from the local Sony rep in Australia so I reckon the upgrade is for all 760ES not just the UK ones. https://pro.sony/en_GB/product-resources/software-firmware/vpl-vw760es-firmware-update-8102 Thanks for the update...I believed the image quality must be very good now. If only Sony can implement what JVC did for their N series...Frame Adapt HDR (JVC proprietary DTM).
Doggie Howser Posted November 10, 2019 Posted November 10, 2019 I think Sony is considering that. Personally I’m happy if players like Panasonic can do that.
Audio Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 Downloaded and upgraded to 8.102 firmware. This is the first one for me since I bought the projector. Upgrading takes a long time. After the USB upload and you go into standby and removed the USB stick, the projector will go into the amber flashing mode one more time and then turn on with green flashing LED for a even longer period (about 10 mins) before it turn on again. Makes me a little nervous as the instructions never mentioned this. I hope they have a recovery mode. I cannot make out the real differences but I think the picture is a lot brighter with this new firmware. (Audio)
desray Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Downloaded and upgraded to 8.102 firmware. This is the first one for me since I bought the projector. Upgrading takes a long time. After the USB upload and you go into standby and removed the USB stick, the projector will go into the amber flashing mode one more time and then turn on with green flashing LED for a even longer period (about 10 mins) before it turn on again. Makes me a little nervous as the instructions never mentioned this. I hope they have a recovery mode. I cannot make out the real differences but I think the picture is a lot brighter with this new firmware. (Audio) Thanks for the update...what's this Dual Contrast Control? For IRIS I suppose since this portion will have an effect on CR based on the aperture of the IRIS?
Audio Posted January 6, 2020 Author Posted January 6, 2020 Thanks for the update...what's this Dual Contrast Control? For IRIS I suppose since this portion will have an effect on CR based on the aperture of the IRIS? Not sure of the answer to your question. I believe this projector will dim the laser accordingly to the dim scenes of the content, not just only using the iris aperture of conventional projector. I did however enjoyed watching movies yesterday.....brighter picture, more resolution to facial skin tones....can see lots of spores. *Happy* Maybe it is because of the newly acquired Zidoo. (Audio)
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