PSA: Be Careful Dealing With Uptone Audio

[mikey8811]

Just a cautionary note for anyone wishing to purchase anything from Uptone Audio.

 

Over the past 3 or so years I have owned an ISO Regen, two LPS 1’s and two LPS 1.2’s. When they work they are OK. However, when they do not, you cannot really count on any meaningful support from Uptone Audio – under warranty or not – and even more so if you are not in the US. One of my LPS 1’s failed during the warranty period after less than a year of use. It would not output anything. I contacted Alex Crespi of Uptone who arranged for a replacement. I shipped the faulty LPS 1 back (costly). I received a replacement in about a month. The replacement I received had dings on the case that were not there in the first place. I just chalked it up to shipping issues. Two months later, the replaced unit failed again. It would not light up. It had more than a year left under warranty. I contacted Uptone again who requested I ship it back again for replacement. However, they discouraged it and proposed a credit of US$185 towards the purchase of a new LPS 1.2 in lieu of the warranty on the unit which faltered so quickly after it was replaced. Upon further questioning and correspondence with Uptone, it came to light that they had not repaired the unit I had sent in for warranty replacement with new parts. Instead they had replaced the board with parts culled from used and returned units previously sent in for trade in or repair purposes. In short, the warranty is tantamount to having your unit replaced with a used one which may or may not have been faulty in the first place, which they claim to have “tested”. It is no surprise that the unit faltered so quickly after their supposed warranty replacement then. As such, their so-called warranty replacement is pretty much flawed. Alex got defensive and quoted some self-derived metric about the failure rates of their products being extremely low and put the cause of successive failure in my units down to my bad luck. He also said that I had electrically damaged the unit which is baffling since I had used it only with their supplied OEM Meanwell switching power supply which still works fine up till today. To date, in the last 20 or so years of being in the hi fi hobby, these Uptone products are the only ones to have malfunctioned so badly.

 

Wishing to cut my losses and to avoid having to ship the faulty unit back to the US at costly charges when the “warranty” replacement would most likely fail again shortly, I paid the remainder towards a brand new LPS 1.2. Alex made it clear that he would not assist with repair of the faulty LPS 1 and I disposed of it.

 

I received a shipment of the LPS 1.2. However, when I unpacked it, the unit had a clear rattling noise when removed from the box. Upon closer inspection, there was a slight scratch on the front chassis plate and the screws were badly stripped. It was pretty clear that Alex had shipped me a used unit or one that had escaped their seemingly lax quality control. I contacted Uptone immediately and requested that they make arrangements for their carrier to collect the unit from me for return to them and replacement of a brand new unit to me. Alex admitted to their negligence citing size slippages and disparities in their OEM case specifications which caused the misfit and rattling noise and worn out Torx screwdrivers stripping the screws. He was certainly aware of the issues affecting the unit I was shipped. However, he refused to do anything about it. He suggested that he would send me some screws and that I open up the unit myself and mount some electrical tape inside the case to stop the rattling noise. Again, he seemed to be fully aware of the issue and how to fix it. Unfortunately, I am not technically inclined nor do I own a Torx screwdriver. To render those fixes I would have to pay a technician to do so. This is rich considering that I had paid for a new and finished product and was shipped a used and/or damaged one. I wrote back to insist on a replacement unit being sent to me and that Uptone arrange to cover the return shipping costs to themselves. Again, Alex refused steadfastly and got hostile, saying that I was taking advantage of them. How exactly am I taking advantage? I paid full price for a new and finished product – that is all I expect, no more and no less. Alex also stated that he did not wish to lose any money on this sale even though Uptone offers the best customer service possible. His final offer was that I return the LPS 1.2 to them at my own cost and that he would refund me the US$250 I had paid meaning I would have to write off the US$185 credit value on the disposed LPS 1 which he is contractually obliged to repair but had refused to assist me with.

 

In this whole experience with Uptone, Alex strikes me as someone who is simply full of excuses. He pays lip service to providing good customer service but it is really just marketing talk. When it comes to the crunch, he fails to deliver but instead makes excuses and puts the blame on anyone but Uptone and himself. Outrageously, he even believes in his own self manufactured press. I recall earlier correspondence with him on why the Uptone ISO Regen would disconnect from my DAC for no reason, requiring that I unplug and replug the DC cable from the Uptone LPS 1.2 for it to work again. Not knowing that I was powering it with a LPS 1.2, he began by questioning the power supply I used. When told it was a LPS 1.2, he blamed the issue on the Silanna chip Uptone used in the ISO Regen – after all, it was an Uptone supply and he could not blame that anymore. I mean you manufactured this product, sourced and supposedly tested the parts and then sold it to the customer as a finished product for good money. The sheer lack of responsibility, ethics and professionalism!

 

As an example of Alex being purely a marketing act, you can see on the Computer Audiophile forum how he derides Sonore’s optical module and Optical Rendu, since Uptone now makes a competing product. Recall, Uptone came into existence making derivative products such as USB fixers and power supplies to be used with Sonore’s series of streamers – the hypocrisy of it all.

 

I appreciate that others may have had a good experience dealing with Uptone Audio but unfortunately, that hasn’t been the case with me. Uptone strikes me as a bucket shop. There are lots of cottage industries and artisanal products in hi fi and that is fine and good, so long as they are run with honesty, integrity and professionalism and not at the expense of unsuspecting customers. Pete of Triode Wire Labs is a great example of a fine one man show company who provides great customer service. Uptone is definitely NOT - YMMV!

[macrotrust]

Hey Bro,

 

Move on with this brand- write off if it is not going to serve it purpose for u. There are other alternative brands to go for it.

 

So far my LPS 1.1 is still ok. Electronics goods- maxi 2 -3 yrs full depreciation. 

[benlzy]

I've owned both the lps1 and lps1.2 and though neither have failed on me, your story is not uncommon. Have many friends whose units failed. They sent it back for a new one, and the new one failed as well few months later.

[bjderf]

Appreciate your sharing.

Was eyeing the etherREGEN.

[ho_kuku]

Same problem with the silanna chip for Regen.

Lps1 send back - new one failed within 2mths

Lps1-2 back in the US still waiting for parts.

 

Failure rate is quite high.

Have a few frd who encountered problems with mostly lps1 already

[composition]

What do you expect from products that are Made in America.

 

 

[ho_kuku]

What do you expect from products that are Made in America.

 

Decent quality, decent service? Too much to ask for?

[mikey8811]

Thanks for chiming in guys.

 

So from your experiences too it does look like Alex was clearly lying about the low failure rate of the LPS 1.

 

The guy is just plain dishonest and lacks integrity. All his talk is simply marketing bullsh@*!t

[Guest]

I appreciate your sharing here, but to hit them where it hurts you should share this story with Social Media and the various forums where Uptone has a presence. Much as I love this forum, I think your story would only reach a small handful of people.

 

For Uptone, I agree it's not ethical for them to ship you a used unit. In cases like this, the only resolution would have been a sincere apology and offer to replace with brand new unit plus cover the shipping costs. The fact they shipped a used unit in the first place shows that they were probably not very happy with the earlier arrangement and wanted to cut some losses.

 

Thanks for the warning anyway. I will probably avoid them in the future.

[Superdad]

This is quite a campaign you are mounting Mr. Cheah.  But it is quite thin. We have nearly 10,000 happy clients around the world.

I spent months in e-mail with you.

My full reply--along with our entire exchange--is posted here:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58156-psa-be-careful-dealing-with-uptone-audio/?do=findComment&comment=1019664

[mikey8811]

Mr Crespi

 

Thin, I believe not. At least not from the experiences of others here,

 

Thanks for including a transcript of the email correspondence.

 

Is there a reason you did not also post the photos and videos documenting the faults in the LPS 1.2 you shipped?

 

Users can now see for themselves and render their own judgements.

 

May we all get what we truly deserve.

 

[Superdad]

Is there a reason you did not also post the photos and videos documenting the faults in the LPS 1.2 you shipped?

 

The UltraCap LPS-1.2 we shipped you was brand new. It is still in your hands working. You were unhappy that the insides of the heads of the black end-plate screws showed a little silver from the torque of the driver bit. You sent me fuzzy photos claiming the screws were completely stripped. Such would only be possible if you tried to remove the screws with a hex/Allen key or the wrong-sized Torx bit.

 

As for the rattle of the board, all PCB houses have limitations on the dimension tolerance they can hold too. Your board must have been 0.1mm short in the 'Y' dimension. If it was just that amount longer, the end plates would press against the PCB to prevent any movement. If the board was longer still, a gap would show between the end-plates and the extrusion.  We always ask our board house to hold very close tolerance, but there will always be +/- variation. 

Why do insist that it is a defect/fault? There are no loose parts. DON'T SHAKE YOUR AUDIO GEAR!  ;D

 

[Audio]

Is it true that all the acquired units are all second hand and were not purchased directly from Uptone Audio?  The only one "purchase" was the one with the $185 credit??

 

(Audio)

[Superdad]

Is it true that all the acquired units are all second hand and were not purchased directly from Uptone Audio?  The only one "purchase" was the one with the $185 credit??

 

Yes, see attached screenshot showing ever shipment ever made to Y A Cheah in Malaysia. The original replacement of his second-hand unit, and then a brand new one for below our cost at $250 (including FedEx shipping which cost us $34).

 

 

 

And here is the photo he sent me of one of the screws that he claimed was "scratched/stripped." Looks just like every other Torx screws we install. They are black-oxide screws, so the act of putting a bit in them will make some silver show in the socket.

 

[mikey8811]

Is it true that all the acquired units are all second hand and were not purchased directly from Uptone Audio?  The only one "purchase" was the one with the $185 credit??

 

(Audio)

 

Yes. However, that is not pertinent as the unit under contention is still under warranty, since Uptone provides a 3 year warranty that is transferable.

 

What is clear is that it malfunctioned in about a year or so and then the subsequent replacement malfunctioned shortly after.

 

This is the same experience others who have chimed in here have had and clear proof of the unreliability of Uptone products and their "warranty" repairs.

[mikey8811]

The UltraCap LPS-1.2 we shipped you was brand new. It is still in your hands working. You were unhappy that the insides of the heads of the black end-plate screws showed a little silver from the torque of the driver bit. You sent me fuzzy photos claiming the screws were completely stripped. Such would only be possible if you tried to remove the screws with a hex/Allen key or the wrong-sized Torx bit.

 

As for the rattle of the board, all PCB houses have limitations on the dimension tolerance they can hold too. Your board must have been 0.1mm short in the 'Y' dimension. If it was just that amount longer, the end plates would press against the PCB to prevent any movement. If the board was longer still, a gap would show between the end-plates and the extrusion.  We always ask our board house to hold very close tolerance, but there will always be +/- variation. 

Why do insist that it is a defect/fault? There are no loose parts. DON'T SHAKE YOUR AUDIO GEAR!  ;D

 

Here are the photos you did not include which clearly show the damage

 

https://ibb.co/q135sZJ

 

https://ibb.co/nC2pTpg

 

 

That is more than a "little bit of silver" showing - they are pretty stripped.

 

I do not own a hex/Allen key nor a Torx bit - wrong sized or otherwise and have not attempted to open the unit. I am guessing the previous owner of the used unit you sent me must have. Alternatively, Uptone must have used these implements when assembling the unit thereby causing and knowing what caused the damage.

 

This is a link to the video documenting the rattling noise:

 

 

There is no need to shake the unit to hear the noise. It was immediately apparent as I lifted the unit out of the box when I unpacked it.

 

You yourself admit to being aware of such damage to units which escape your poor quality control process. Specifically:

 

"    Perhaps the Torx T10 screwdriver tip my assistant was using to assemble was a bit worn.  After many uses we throw away the bits if they start to mare the black of the Torx-star screw."

 

and

 

"    Any rattle you hear is only from the entire circuit board not being held firm in the slots by pressure from the front/back plates. The PCB has close +/- tolerance for length, and sometimes a few are just 0.1mm short—enough to keep the end plates from holding it steady.  We have a trick to fix that (a bit of electrical tape along the inside of the front plate is enough thickness), but perhaps we missed your unit or the temperature is different in your environment"

 

There is a recurring thread where you tellingly seem to know exactly what has caused the damage. Yet are not decent enough to take responsibility for your own negligence but rather ask me to open up the unit myself and mount electrical tape. As mentioned, I am not technically inclined nor do I own the implements necessary to fix issues with the used and/ or damaged unit you sent. I would have to pay a technician to so so which is ludicrous as I paid for a new and finished product which was clearly not shipped as such.

 

There is only your word that there are no loose parts and your words have been proven to lack credibility.

 

Good customer service only happens when you perform it. Not when you just talk endlessly about how good it is.

 

 

[benlzy]

After taking time to read through the entire email thread, I definitely can see the difficulties faced by both parties. Dealing internationally can be a pain and shipping cost is a bitch, especially when it comes to cases like this.

 

From a consumer's standpoint, if I'm paying for shipping during purchase, shipping to return a defective product, and shipping again after the repair is done, that's essentially $100 in shipping  for a $400 product (LPS1)! Not something I would be thrilled about. And I also understand that if Uptone were to cover shipping back, take time to do repairs and send it over again, there's no profit to be made, and margins would be reduced significantly (since the product is relatively low in cost).

 

I don't believe that any sane person would intentionally do a shake test on a piece of audio equipment upon receiving it  ;D  Perhaps there was a noise inside when the equipment was handled, and the first instinct one would have would be to confirm this, by means of shaking. This, coupled with the 'stripped' screws and the lengthy exchanges, would just instantly conceive the impression of something cheap and used, whether it is true or not.

 

My personal experience corresponding with Alex has been good. Back in Dec 2016 when I first ordered the lps1, I asked to cancel my order so I could tompang shipping with another friend who ordered. Alex cancelled and refunded in full within a couple of days. Back in Dec 2018 when I inquired about a possible trade in to upgrade to the lps1.2, he replied my email even though he was on vacation. So for me, customer support and service is there, and as my lps1 did not fail, I didn't face any of the issues TS faced.

 

However, the reason why I wanted to trade in was because 3 of my friends who owned the lps1 had their units fail within these 2 years. They either sent back for repair, or taken credit towards the lps1.2. Kinda felt like I'm just lucky mine was still functioning. I don't know how many people in SG actually own the lps1, but as of Dec 2019, I personally know 5 people whose units have failed. Either the 1 or 1.2, and some more than once. Maybe there were 1000 units shipped here, and 5 out of 1000 is relatively little? I don't have all the data, but in this past few years, it just seems like everyone I know who has the lps1 or 1.2 have had issues with it.

 

Ultimately, though I purchased a lps1.2, I didn't take the trade in credit, because selling my lps1 on the used market would fetch a higher price than the trade in credit, and also I didn't have to pay for shipping back. I purchased it because despite everything, it does sound good. And at the end of the day, we all want something that sounds good at an affordable price. Imagine using a $1k LPS, then powering it with a $1k cord, and get a good DC cable.. already $2k+ liao, just to power 1 equipment.

 

The trade in credit value is something that can be improved. Some dealers offer a 70-90% trade in value if you want to upgrade, maybe even 100% in some cases. So at 45% trade in value, it's not ideal, especially since you need to pay for shipping back, and shipping again for the upgrade.

[Audio]

The trade in credit value is something that can be improved. Some dealers offer a 70-90% trade in value if you want to upgrade, maybe even 100% in some cases. So at 45% trade in value, it's not ideal, especially since you need to pay for shipping back, and shipping again for the upgrade.

 

I always hear Singapore customers talking about "trade-in" deals.  You are expecting the dealer to offer you something for something used.  And you want "70-90%" trade in??  Could any products give you a profitability that could allow you to give back 70%-90%??  Or 100%, how could that be possible?  I pay you 90% for your old unit ...and what do I do with it??  Even if I recycle the parts, I will be screwed in the end, like in this case.  How??

 

(Audio)

[andylovesaudio]

“...The trade in credit value is something that can be improved. Some dealers offer a 70-90% trade in value if you want to upgrade, maybe even 100% in some cases. So at 45% trade in value, it's not ideal, especially since you need to pay for shipping back, and shipping again for the upgrade”.

 

Wow. Can mention which brand and/or store offer those trade-in terms in Sg? Unless selling snake oil or Super overpriced price structure. ... those are excellent terms. Come to think of it ... I remember local brand cables offering 80 percent trade in of old model towards their new model. The catch is ... new model is QUADRUPLE the price of old model.  :o. Scamish I would say. Selling on used market and having to ignore (politely somemore) people with Low balls a huge turn off.

[benlzy]

I don't think it's all too uncommon actually :o. Sometimes when a new product is launched, or there's a promotion for some products, some dealers do offer pretty good trade in prices. I don't demand a 70-90% trade in value, but I've been offered this a few times when the dealers said I could trade in. I'm not some megabucks spender so it's not like they gain a lot from having me as a returning customer, but it's actually more surprising for me to hear this isn't the usual case ???

 

Granted, not profit much may be made from the sale (traded in unit may just go onto their pre-owned page), but it leaves me with a very good impression of the dealer, who seems genuinely valuing me as a customer, who may go on to purchase other new items from him because I know that I can always trade in to upgrade at a good value, or even recommend other friends to purchase from him.

 

Definitely Uptone has every right to set whatever trade in price they want, or even if they allowed trade ins at all. I didn't write in a heated email, demanding Alex to offer me 70-90% trade in price, I just accepted whatever the offer was, and decided that it might be better for me to sell it off in the used market instead of trading in. And I never highlighted this as a major point of concern to not deal with Uptone, so maybe focus more on the TS's points instead of potentially going off topic? ;D

 

If you're interested in what are some stuff I have traded in, just drop me a pm.

 

[ho_kuku]

Wah, quite a num of replies here.

Speaking from personal experience- Alex is responsive and helpful. He stands behind his product and tried helping me out as best as he could. Offered to send me the meanwell brick FOC too where he can easily sell me a new one.

 

Hope this misunderstanding can be resolved eventually. I’ll be concerned with my lps1-2 gives out funny sound when tilting it slightly. Shouldn’t be the case at all. Pun intended

 

I also personally know 3-4 people who had they Lps1 died within 1-2 years.

Maybe - a bad production batch? Who know - but I understand that Alex helped resolved their problem.

 

On another note - anyone recieved their EtherRegen already?

[wizardofoz]

I have my EtherREGEN as does another friend. Happy with the purchase and the UpTone assistance getting the units shipped here..no troubles at all, and build quality is solid. We were in the December shipments. I have mine connected optically to a microrendu on the B side. Need to get some time to do some proper listening.

[ho_kuku]

I have my EtherREGEN as does another friend. Happy with the purchase and the UpTone assistance getting the units shipped here..no troubles at all, and build quality is solid. We were in the December shipments. I have mine connected optically to a microrendu on the B side. Need to get some time to do some proper listening.

 

Thanks for the info - review seems quite positive for etherRegen.

not sure if its logical from switch from the sotm sNH-10

[wizardofoz]

If you want to add an optical connection its a good choice. My first UpTone purchase. My friend is using with B-A connection optical to an opticalRendu

 

 

I am not sure about the SOtM switch but its also good I've heard- perhaps a different application and maybe works in addition to the ER

[mikey8811]

Here is more of Alex's "transparency" posted on another board. At least the poster had the consideration to redact and block out personal details from the emails unlike others.

 

 

 

"Sooo, not to get into he said she said here but I had a very similar experience with uptone audio. I on the other hand purchased all new direct from Alex products. This is my experience without bogging down into great detail.

1- several times my purchase was delayed even though product was paid. This happened on more than one occasion and occurred for two products I purchased. 2- I two had an iso regen fail and it was replaced after much bantering back and forth. So great but here’s an excerpt of correspondence;

 

Hi ——-

So let’s exchange the circuit board in your ISO REGEN for a new one (SQ is better, but we are not publicly discussing that since it is an in-line change; and one can tell version only by looking at the board).

Please mail just the IS REGEN (no PS or cables; and no special box—packing material/retail box is not returned) back to us at:

UpTone Audio LLC4647 Indian Peak RoadMariposa, California 95338USA

We will install a brand new board (so it will need some “break-in”) and ship back to you right away. Please include a note in the box.

Thanks and have a great weekend,—-——

 

I took issue with this statement “the sound quality is better but we are not publicly discussing it” this is where I started to get turned off from uptone products as it was disclosed to me that the early chips had issues and the third version was finally up to snuff. I’m not a fan of being a test bed for equipment from a company and it seams this is what was happening.

2: I also had an lps1.2 fail and again it was replaced and much like the op the replacement came back dinged up and looking used (in Alex’s defence he sent new end plates) again some correspondence;

 

Hi ——-

Thanks for your thoughtful feedback. Yes, we can certainly improve in some areas. 

The LPS-1.2 issue was tough because:a) It took us a while to figure out why it was happening;b) It only occurred on about 5% of the units in the field, so we did not feel the need to alarm people (audiophiles are a skidish bunch and the LPS-1.2 is really our “cash cow”).

Even a failing LPS-1.2 could never harm an external device. Simply not possible with the safety design measures that are part of the product. So the possibility you raise was never a possibility—another reason we did not feel compelled to issue a formal alert. Such was considered carefully.

I’ll pick out and mail a nice pair of end panels for you. I assume that you have a Torx T10 size driver bit handy to remove the screws?

All the best,

———

 

again there was a issue with the product and failure rate. At the end of the day I sold all my uptone gear including a js2 and moved on. Alex seams like a really nice guy but parts of his business model seam a bit off. Just putting it out there that the op may seam vengeful but there is some merit in his dealings.