Supratek Owners & Discussion Thread

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

14 minutes ago, THOMO said:

Yes if you have a suspended timber floor some isolation is probably good hence the wall shelf.Still not going to stop airborne sound from directly impacting on the tonearm and cartridge though.Fortunately most of us have concrete floors so such things become far less important.

 

The parts of the turntable that receive airborne sound are not, directly,the tonearm and cartridge but the big bits with a tendency to microphony. Those big bits are the chassis and the lid. Also if you have the turntable on a big, heavy vibrating object you will feed the energy from that into the tonearm and cartridge, unless you have some method of isolation, or some other form of controlling or dissipating the energy entering the system. If you like, the Rega interacts with the surface it is on to allow some dissipation (this is gross oversimplification) and thus less energy is fed into the tonearm. We're talking higher frequencies than footfall here.

 

Most non mass-loaded turntables actually work (or did back in my day) just like the Rega at some frequencies, even when suspended. Answer this - why does a Sondek ALSO work best on a wall shelf, or on a lightweight table on a concrete floor?

 

And what does the airborne sound care about the floor being concrete (especially as we tend to cover the floor with carpet or rugs to dampen reflections from the speakers anyway? All you'll get from me here is questions, not answers, I'm afraid. I don't know nearly enough myself. I do know the business is far more complex than you're making out.

[THOMO]

Well if you think microphonics are causing some loss of sound quality then I guess you need to look at ways of fixing it but if everything sounds good why bother?

Max Townshend is probably the go-to man for such issues and he goes on about seismic interference [the stuff you can't hear directly] as being the important one.

 

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

1 hour ago, THOMO said:

Well if you think microphonics are causing some loss of sound quality then I guess you need to look at ways of fixing it but if everything sounds good why bother?

 

Says the guy who has put his SP10 in "custom lead filled curly Jarrah THOMO plinth", obviously to deal with something completely different

Edited October 30, 2017 by Eggcup The Daft

[THOMO]

1 hour ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

Says the guy who has put his SP10 in "custom lead filled curly Jarrah THOMO plinth", obviously to deal with something completely different

Yes but there is no silly sagging ,wobbly,bouncing suspension.The lead shot mass loads the motor/platter unit but the tonearm is just mounted on the jarrah plinth.No separate /isolated arm board as such-I tried that and it made no difference.This is by far the best sounding turntable I have used .

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

1 hour ago, THOMO said:

Yes but there is no silly sagging ,wobbly,bouncing suspension.The lead shot mass loads the motor/platter unit but the tonearm is just mounted on the jarrah plinth.No separate /isolated arm board as such-I tried that and it made no difference.This is by far the best sounding turntable I have used .

A "sagging" suspension is not properly set up. Or at least would have been wrong on the suspended decks I owned. Anyway, I'll duck out of this one now and let you get back to the subject of the thread.

[THOMO]

Classic  wiring from the highly regarded Sansui AU111 and AU70 .Valve amps from the 1960s and both still going strong in their original condition.-

 

[Guest Muon N']

Those gray paper and oil caps in the AU-111 had a lovely sparkle, pity they often need to be replaced at this stage.

[georgehifi]

6 hours ago, THOMO said:

Classic  wiring from the highly regarded Sansui AU111 and AU70

That's a rats nest. This is "classic" done right.

 

Cheers George

Edited February 12, 2018 by georgehifi

[georgehifi]

And for age comparison, an old 1959 Quad 22 preamp.

 

Cheers George

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Let's not forget one of Australia's best valve amplifier manufacturers. Tidy, high quality construction, which allows easier fault-finding and ensures that hot running components cannot damage sensitive ones:

 

 

[Ittaku]

I've seen the inside of the supratek preamps in person now and I agree it's a mess. One thing I can say, though, is the pictures make it look much worse than it is in reality. The reason is lack of 3D perspective to see how the maker has laid things out in physical space to make them ~dual mirror images and manually routed every wire to prevent them touching each other and other components. Of course in a solid design there would be no need to do so. The wires themselves are solid core silver coated teflon insulated wires which makes them easy to deform to a certain shape which they will then hold indefinitely.

 

Nonetheless, this should be about users' experience and not another opportunity to continue criticising the layout yet again.

 

I now have a Dual Cabernet so I'll be able to comment after some more time with the device. So far my listening has been extremely enjoyable but I still have some issues with the device, though Mick helps sort out the issues with each design personally and I shouldn't pass judgement until he has finished helping me till I'm satisfied with the final endpoint. That's something in itself too though - that it wasn't ideal as soon as I got it, and that the builder personally helps sort it out with you, both a negative and a positive. Mine is also customised exactly to my particular application which no other manufacturer could offer.

[Ittaku]

Well it took a lot longer to sort out my issues than I had originally expected but I kept waiting patiently and Mick remained in contact at all times. My first issue was a very microphonic experience with tapping anything near the preamp making the preamp go bong bong through the speakers. Turning the selector knob would invoke a microphonic thump and even the slightest tap on the top of the preamp would cause a loud bong. It did appear to add a bloat to all the sound as well so it wasn't harmless to me. I ordered some tube dampers and mick sent me some newer less microphonic valves to try and by the time I'd seated them the microphonic noise had all but gone. Funnily enough when I experimented with putting the old valves back in, the microphonic noise seemed to have gone there too. It seems just reseating them was all it required. After that I was getting a crackling noise but this I've experienced before - I switched valves around a few times and found one in any of the output sockets seemed to elicit the noise and cleaning its terminals fixed it. None of these were really big problems and were more a function of the valves and mounting them optimally.

 

My biggest issue ended up being one of noise from the preamp - hum and buzz, and picking up noise from anything that was brought near the preamp, be it power cable, another device, anything magnetic, or even a hand. The buzz was loud and audible from the listening position when music was switched off. We talked about this a bit via email and eventually Mick decided the noise was because of the preamp's high gain nature in combination with my relatively high gain power amp at the time. He originally offered to rebuild the same preamp but instead decided to work on a new design that was single stage instead of dual stage and sacrifice some of the gain to try and fix the noise. This process ended up taking months while he experimented with different designs and auditioned them before he was finally happy with it.

 

In the meantime, I suddenly had some kind of electrical issue with my existing preamp - plugging the power cord in even with it switched off would trip my RCD/breakers so I could no longer use it. Now this sounds alarming but one thing I've not mentioned yet is the preamp was damaged in transit. When it arrived (shipped by DHL) I heard a rattle inside it and checked with Mick before opening it up only to find a choke which should have been mounted on the side wall in the power unit had ripped off and the screws were literally rolling around the base of the preamp. Luckily I discovered that before anything shorted with those screws. Nonetheless I suspect this is related to whatever was causing the circuit breakers to trip. So finally I could no longer hold onto the existing one and sent it back to Mick. At about the same time he was pretty confident in the newer design.

 

Interestingly he appears to have made a post in his blog about my issue, and this design, inspiring a change to all his preamps:

http://supratekaudio.blogspot.com/2018/03/were-back.html

 

Anyway the newer design one finally arrived and I've plugged it in and had a good long hard listen. The sound is exceptional. The way the preamp simply fleshes out all the music giving body to instruments, and adding real drive to the dynamics without a hint of added veiling that I've gotten when auditioning other preamps is astounding. There's no hint of warm tubey sound, there's no suggestion of rolled off top end or loss of detail, and adding a component into the signal path has only but improved the sound. The noise added is now minuscule and only audible up close to the speakers and consequently it feels like the noise floor in music has also fallen away giving more blackness to quiet between instruments and perhaps removal of a certain grunge to the sound I wasn't aware of before. I should add that since I have had my existing DAC, I've been unhappy with using it as a preamp as well - it has always sounded lacking in dynamics as though it was 'thin' and I couldn't even get enough gain to drive my power amps loud enough, so its output stage is clearly lacking. Which is a shame because its sound is otherwise beautiful. This is one of the reasons I set out to get a preamp in the first place; to get more gain and drive the power amp properly (only the first one I got drove it way too well and had far too much gain.) The fact that this preamp has 4 channels now for my custom installation which goes after the DAC which is also the crossover to the subwoofer means it's a perfect fit for my unique audio setup.

 

All in all it's been a long process but well worth it since I now have exactly the sound and features I want from a preamp. Here's my system thread:

 

You're probably wondering when you see my system why I don't have an ARC preamp. The reference 6 preamp was the only recent ARC preamp I tried. It did everything my Supratek preamp did to the sound, except that it also added a veil to the sound. I really wanted it to work but it sounded lesser with it in instead of greater. Note that a lot of people swear by the Ref6 and it most likely is exceptional in other settings so perhaps it was just in -my- system it didn't work. I could not bring myself to audition the reference 10 preamp at about $45k. That and the fact it only preamplifies 2 channels.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Ittaku

[Rjosefs]

Hello everyone , I have owned a Syrah for many years. I live in the United States and would like someone here just to look at it. Does someone have a schematic of the Syrah that they can send me? I hate to bother Michael too much

 

Thank you

[AudioGeek]

Your best bet is to contact Mick - he is always happy to help. I think there are different versions and hence different schematics.

[gryphongryph]

Hi guys, I have been thinking about upgrading my system, have been eyeing the Supratek Cabernet pre with the Usher R1.5. 

My speakers are the Graham Audio LS 5/9.

How is the volume control on the Supratek? Does it have small steps and can you play on lower volume and still get good detail ?

I live in the North Atlantic, so far away from Australia, do you guys think it is too risky buying a Supratek and getting it shipped to me ?

thanks!

[Ittaku]

29 minutes ago, gryphongryph said:

Hi guys, I have been thinking about upgrading my system, have been eyeing the Supratek Cabernet pre with the Usher R1.5. 

My speakers are the Graham Audio LS 5/9.

How is the volume control on the Supratek? Does it have small steps and can you play on lower volume and still get good detail ?

I live in the North Atlantic, so far away from Australia, do you guys think it is too risky buying a Supratek and getting it shipped to me ?

thanks!

It's not a stepped attenuator but a smooth alps potentiometer meaning you have infinite control over the amount of volume adjustment. The range is very useful and the sound quality is not compromised by playing at low volumes. Unless your Usher has an input impedance below 20k I think it would be a fine match with any power amp (I know nothing about that particular power amp.)

[gryphongryph]

Thanks! How is the remote?

I was hoping it was metal or wood like the pre’s but I understand it is just a plastic thingy !! 

[gryphongryph]

This is the info on the amp.

 

Input Sensitivity : 1.6v for full rated output
input Impedance : 67 kohms
Slew rate :up to 40v/us
Power supply at 4 ohms : up to 16 amps
Instantaneous current supply : up to 75 amps
Signal to noise ratio < 100dB
Power Consumption (idle) : 175watts
Power Consumption (full rated power @ 8ohms) : 720 watts
Power Output 20hz - 20Khz @8ohms
150 watts RMS per channel (both channels driven)
Weight : 40Kgs
150W @ 8 Ohms
260W @ 4 Ohms   Do you think it would match well ?

[Ittaku]

4 hours ago, gryphongryph said:

This is the info on the amp.

 

Input Sensitivity : 1.6v for full rated output
input Impedance : 67 kohms
Slew rate :up to 40v/us
Power supply at 4 ohms : up to 16 amps
Instantaneous current supply : up to 75 amps
Signal to noise ratio < 100dB
Power Consumption (idle) : 175watts
Power Consumption (full rated power @ 8ohms) : 720 watts
Power Output 20hz - 20Khz @8ohms
150 watts RMS per channel (both channels driven)
Weight : 40Kgs
150W @ 8 Ohms
260W @ 4 Ohms   Do you think it would match well ?

Definitely will match well.

 

4 hours ago, gryphongryph said:

Thanks! How is the remote?

I was hoping it was metal or wood like the pre’s but I understand it is just a plastic thingy !! 

It's this crappy little thing:

 

The on/off button doesn't actually do anything to the preamp mind you; it turns off the remote control!

 

However, I noticed on another thread that someone else has already done the work and has a Supratek preamp and your power amp! Calling @THOMO

 

[gryphongryph]

Yes not very impressive remote, would be nice if Supratek made a more upscale remote that one could buy extra, such a beautiful product that the Supratek amps are, deserve a better looking remote.

[TerryO]

2 hours ago, gryphongryph said:

Yes not very impressive remote, would be nice if Supratek made a more upscale remote that one could buy extra, such a beautiful product that the Supratek amps are, deserve a better looking remote.

Is this really such a problem? 

[gryphongryph]

Is this really such a problem? 

No, just a bit annoying that manufactures don’t take into account things like this, what will you use the most listening to your stereo?
Well for most people I guess it is the remote.
So a nice to hold and good designed remote is only a good thing!

[Steve M]

20 hours ago, gryphongryph said:

 

I live in the North Atlantic, so far away from Australia, do you guys think it is too risky buying a Supratek and getting it shipped to me ?

thanks!

 

To answer this question, no it is not risky buying from an Australian manufacturer. Especially in that there are probably hundreds of Supratek units overseas from Europe to Asia to North America and the preamp maker Mick Maloney backs his product for life. I am aware that foreign owners simply have to ship the unit back to him at cost and he will carry out repairs or upgrades - at minimal cost and often free of charge.

[gryphongryph]

Yes, he hopefully uses good packaging, when shipping so far. Always a chance something happening, especially a tube amp.

Funny when eying the Don Sachs pre, Don said that it would be safer shipping his metal case pre instead of his Wood/metal case, as the wood one could expand/shrink during air travel!

[THOMO]

Yes you might get some contraction/expansion of the wood in flight but  not nearly as much as from the cooling and heating of the preamp itself.And that does not seem to be a problem.You would get pretty minimal movement with mitre joints that are only 19mm thick and 80mm wide.Mitre joints in material much thicker than that [say above 60mm] can be problem as they wriggle apart over time.

The Supratek cabinets also have biscuit joints on the mitre which makes for a very strong joint.