betty boop Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said: “I just want to try and alert you to the potential seismic scam happening with this Atmos roll out. Atmos catalog remixing is being done by the truckload in a handful of Nashville, LA, and NYC rooms right now and has been for a couple of years, and almost none of it is being overseen or approved by the artist or original producer or mixer. And these versions- according to Apple- will be the new standard versions, superseding the original versions, now designated by Apple to the dustbin of history. good to see call outs on this... I do hope the artists are involved. my experience so far with atmos and apple music ... is its there for effect... ie in a lot of cases ... its not greatly different to "upmixing" that you could enable yourself for for 2.0 and 5.1 tracks to 7.1.4 its also there for apple headphones (which cant do lossless) because of their wireless nature ...so give some other form of wow with the new update... good atmos mixes take some careful work from sound engineers creating objects and steering them around 3D space and what atmos is all about creating this 3D sound field. what we have greatly is just a more enveloping mix and will be room filling and sounds coming from everywhere...which a lot of folk will indeed go wow with. the thing is there are far more convincing ways to upmix 2.0...dts-neural X is far superior at present in my opinion. and auro3D is absolutely king with music specifically... so anyone wowed by atmos on apple music ... just also try auro3D .. if have access to it... to counter all this there are some tracks eg the billy eilish ones for instance i have heard that atmos did add well. so have no doubt there are some native atmos well done tracks... but i think folks should be aware there are a lot of what seem just as upmixes... but thank goodness we also do have still choice to switch atmos off...if not to taste with the new mix
betty boop Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said: had high hopes for Apple Music, but the implementation on MacOS is undercooked, AirPlay won’t let you stream high res to a remote endpoint and using a streamer seems to have been forgotten as one of the most likely ways we consume music now. Watch this space I guess. i think apples clear message here is (for the moment anyways) that if you want hi-res wired is way to go... so definitely a watch this space till wireless means get their act together ... as wired though am very much enjoying things...also have to say in streaming where bulk of stuff is lossless and 24/48 anyways i am enjoying the option of lossless vs lossy only we had prior... Edited June 12, 2021 by betty boop
BugPowderDust Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 Airplay isn’t just a wireless protocol. It’s a streaming protocol that works on wired and wireless devices with the protocol enabled. The problem for streaming is that airplay is bandwidth limited regardless of the communication medium and unless Apple change this, Apple Music is next to useless for third party streamers attempting to playback high res audio. Do Apple have some streamers in the wings? Like their own Sonos Connect or a Bluesound Node that will overcome this issue? That’s the only quick fix I can see to the current situation.
John0001 Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 There seems to be a lot of justifiable negative discussion around implementation of Apples offering and for the most part I agree with those points. I too wish Airplay was higher spec and more widely integrated. Apple Music is also nowhere near the experience Roon provides or as 'audiophile' in some respects as Qobuz. But, I was doing some cost analysis and to get a full no limitations experience you'd need either Qobuz ($229.99/year) or Qobuz+Roon ($229.99 + $120.00 = $350/year). Apple Music is $143.88/year. I guess to a certain degree you get what you pay for. Being largely a physical media player (vinyl and cd) I can accept the limitations but perhaps those heavily invested in streaming would go next level and invest more heavily? 2
deviltoob Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 What’s the deal with this Spatial Sound/Dolby Atmos on Apple Music now? There is a Spatial Audio playlist and although it doesn’t show as Dolby Atmos on my sound bar it does sound different. Is Atmos just a new gimmick to make stereo sound more surround, like that Pro Logic over whatever it was called? I know Automatic For The People is mastered for Atmos and that sounds good but I certainly don’t think the Beatles albums have all been done like that.
betty boop Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said: Airplay isn’t just a wireless protocol. It’s a streaming protocol that works on wired and wireless devices with the protocol enabled. The problem for streaming is that airplay is bandwidth limited regardless of the communication medium and unless Apple change this, Apple Music is next to useless for third party streamers attempting to playback high res audio. next to useless as categorisation is harsh and untrue... am speaking here from actual experience to date. the thing is the GREAT majority and i mean seriously great majority of whats in apples music library is 24/48 lossless so airplay2 covers this... it doesnt help bluetooth which is all their headphones but for wireless streaming we are greatly covered for now... i used with my blue sound for instance it works and works well... not something we could do off apple music before and lossless... it was always lossy so a step forward and a great one... to point i have kicked off tidal no need for me... 21 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said: Do Apple have some streamers in the wings? Like their own Sonos Connect or a Bluesound Node that will overcome this issue? That’s the only quick fix I can see to the current situation. blue sound works now.... at 24/48 which is bulk of library.... the door has been left open with appletv 4k and also once android apk for lossless comes we will have greater choices too i suspect... appels annoncent to the world was carefully worded... see the headline... its spatial audio first ...lossless next... and hi-res ? it gets one cursory mention one single line in the entire press release.. it is NOT the headline... folks chasing hi-res that will come... as there is little in the library now... its probably not massive focus for apple right now but am sure will come... read back to 2015-6 and will see apple been collecting hi-res masters since then... their tech just need to catch up and am sure that will be next release... if they headlined hi-res consider the howls of ridicule given their streamer in atv4k cant do it neither an any of their phones manage it... it will come... airplay 3. updates all around ... https://www.apple.com/au/newsroom/2021/05/apple-music-announces-spatial-audio-and-lossless-audio/ Apple Music announces Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos; will bring Lossless Audio to entire catalog as their library grows with hires 24/96 and 24./192 i suspect so will their ability to stream... the w . Edited June 12, 2021 by betty boop
deviltoob Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) Found this article: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/9/22525028/apple-music-spatial-audio-dolby-atmos-hands-on The priority is Dolby Atmos. My views are roughly the same as the article. The vocals are absolutely awesome but some things just sound weird, like the guitars on Counting Crows Mrs Jones. Maybe the weirdness is just the unexpectedness at hearing new things in the mix. Edited June 12, 2021 by deviltoob
davewantsmoore Posted June 13, 2021 Posted June 13, 2021 7 hours ago, BugPowderDust said: The problem for streaming is that airplay is bandwidth limited regardless of the communication medium and unless Apple change this, Apple Music is next to useless for third party streamers attempting to playback high res audio. Ummm... nobody has to use AirPlay
Dropbear67 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 20 hours ago, davewantsmoore said: Ummm... nobody has to use AirPlay No but we need them to release the equivalent to the "connect" protocols.. ie Spotify/Tidal connect.
Chill3 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 59 minutes ago, Dropbear67 said: No but we need them to release the equivalent to the "connect" protocols.. ie Spotify/Tidal connect. Sonos already have a “ connect” implemented for Apple so it’s just a matter of others also doing so, I suspect on one has till now as Apple Music was all lossy and Airplay was more than good enough
Topman_Chief Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 On 08/06/2021 at 2:11 PM, blybo said: Do we now have Spotify lossless in Oz? Is lossless on Spotify still working? For everyone with Spotify Premium? I'm keen to move from Tidal to Spotify and was waiting for the Spotify Hi-Fi tier. I'd like to maximise my free Spotify trial, so I'm hoping this isn't just some testing which they then turn off until November...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted June 14, 2021 Author Volunteer Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Topman_Chief said: Is lossless on Spotify still working? I didn’t know lossless on Spotify has arrived yet? Edited June 14, 2021 by sir sanders zingmore
mitchlim Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 The way that I listen to Apple Music. Since macOS is not bit perfect, I decide to go for iPad Pro with the following : First add an USB C hub with ethernet port, then connect it to a switch (using Uptone ER), turn off WiFi Do not use the same hub for power charging, instead get an Apple Keyboard for iPad Pro, there is an extra USB port for charging Instead of using Apple charger, I use 5v Battery or a LPS 2
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted June 14, 2021 Author Volunteer Posted June 14, 2021 1 minute ago, mitchlim said: Since macOS is not bit perfect it's not?
aussievintage Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: it's not? I am starting to wonder why people use Apple at all 1
jymy Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 31 minutes ago, mitchlim said: The way that I listen to Apple Music. Since macOS is not bit perfect, I decide to go for iPad Pro with the following : First add an USB C hub with ethernet port, then connect it to a switch (using Uptone ER), turn off WiFi Do not use the same hub for power charging, instead get an Apple Keyboard for iPad Pro, there is an extra USB port for charging Instead of using Apple charger, I use 5v Battery or a LPS I connect my old iPad Pro to the dac via lighting to USB dongle. It’s not bit perfect either according to the display on my dac.
mitchlim Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 macOS is set at prefixed sampling in MIDI, however, iPad Pro the sampling is according to source. By the way, connect iPad Pro to Mutec MC3+USB, and it works prefectly
aussievintage Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 33 minutes ago, mitchlim said: macOS is set at prefixed sampling in MIDI, what has a digital protocol like MIDI have to do with sampling rates?
BugPowderDust Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, aussievintage said: what has a digital protocol like MIDI have to do with sampling rates? Look at the audio midi settings tool in MacOS. It can be only set to one bitrate at a time and forces a reboot of Apple Music to change it. It’s very ordinary and been an issue since the early days of OSX. Makes a joke out of the Apple launch of high bitrate audio and the use of an external DAC to leverage the most from it.
John0001 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 I think he means the Audio/Midi setup app used to setup audio routing and midi connections. 1
betty boop Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said: Look at the audio midi settings tool in MacOS. It can be only set to one bitrate at a time and forces a reboot of Apple Music to change it. I have not found necessary a forced reboot or anything ... you change it ...it pauses and off it goes ... you only need to set it once at highest rate anyways as been posted already in the thread. no need to be changing it... 4 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said: It’s very ordinary and been an issue since the early days of OSX. Makes a joke out of the Apple launch of high bitrate audio and the use of an external DAC to leverage the most from it. I'm struggling to understand this and the what is the frustration to be honest... The great bulk is 24/.48 in the library at best.... some rare 24/.96... extremely rare 24/192 and yes apple tells you upfront you will be needing a dac beyond 24/48..... so whats the problem exactly ? have also pointed to the headline of the press release, it is NOT High bitrate or or matter hi-res audio that is headline...it is losses and spatial and they have delivered both. hi-res gets one cursory online mention. the availability doesnt even talk about hi-res from the press release... https://www.apple.com/au/newsroom/2021/05/apple-music-announces-spatial-audio-and-lossless-audio/ "Lossless Audio Apple Music will also make its catalog of more than 75 million songs available in Lossless Audio. Apple uses ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) to preserve every single bit of the original audio file. This means Apple Music subscribers will be able to hear the exact same thing that the artists created in the studio. To start listening to Lossless Audio, subscribers using the latest version of Apple Music can turn it on in Settings > Music > Audio Quality. Here, they can choose different resolutions for different connections such as cellular, Wi-Fi, or for download. Apple Music’s Lossless tier starts at CD quality, which is 16 bit at 44.1 kHz (kilohertz), and goes up to 24 bit at 48 kHz and is playable natively on Apple devices. For the true audiophile, Apple Music also offers Hi-Resolution Lossless all the way up to 24 bit at 192 kHz.1" Due to the large file sizes and bandwidth needed for Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless Audio, subscribers will need to opt in to the experience. Hi-Res Lossless also requires external equipment, such as a USB digital-to-analog converter (DAC). Availability Spatial Audio with support for Dolby Atmos and Lossless Audio will be available to Apple Music subscribers at no additional cost. Thousands of tracks will be available in Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos at launch, with more added regularly. Apple Music’s catalog of more than 75 million songs will be available in Lossless Audio. More information, including a comprehensive list of compatible devices, is available at apple.com/apple-music. If its hi-res chasing, this release isnt the focus, its lossless and spatial folks..and as they say this is natively playable on apple devices...
Topman_Chief Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 4 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said: 5 hours ago, Topman_Chief said: Is lossless on Spotify still working? I didn’t know lossless on Spotify has arrived yet? Edited 4 hours ago by sir sanders zingmore Looking at posts in this thread from @blybo and @Kasman from June 8, both provided screenshots of Spotify streaming at 16/44. I just wanted to check if they or others were still seeing the same thing now? 1
aussievintage Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, BugPowderDust said: Look at the audio midi settings tool in MacOS. It can be only set to one bitrate at a time and forces a reboot of Apple Music to change it. Audio yes, MIDI no. Although they may have the settings in the same place they are quite different and distinct. MIDI stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface. MIDI is a protocol of instructions typically used to control musical instruments and even stage lighting and effects, and doesn't contain audio, just the instructions on how to play it. They are transmitted serially at 31.25kHz. Audio is generated solely within the instrument being controlled by MIDI. Adding to the confusion is the use of midi to control software synthesizers, but that doesn't change what MIDI actually is.
John0001 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 Basically Apple just put the core audio and core midi settings in the same place. Just ignore the midi stuff. In the audio settings just set it to the highest bit depth and sample rate and you're good to go.
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