PrimaLuna Owners & Discussion Thread

[DdDesign]

51 minutes ago, Nick44 said:

I have exactly the above set up, Denafrips Iris DDC  》 Denafrips Pontus 》 Evo400. This was my first stand-alone DAC and I love the sound of Qobuz through my Lumin U2mini.

I play all my SACDs through an Oppo 205au which is an ESS delta/sigma DAC.

If I had to compare I would say the Denafrips r2r is perhaps slightly warmer.

Just to prove us audiophiles are incorrigible I have wondered about getting a tube DAC like the Primaluna Lol.

Shame you're not in Melbourne we could try a swap

Yeh a swap would be great!

I have had another day with the PrimaLuna dac and It is quite  addictive. It’s very musical and easy to have around. I can highly recommend giving it a trial if you have an opportunity. I would say the reviews on line are pretty accurate as to how this dac sounds. It’s lush and detailed all at the same time. Give it  30-40 minutes warm up time and it really shines.

The only clutch is I can’t get it to recognise the  usb from my blusound node. Optical no problems?? Hopefully the dealer can help me sort that.

[Nick44]

22 minutes ago, DdDesign said:

Yeh a swap would be great!

I have had another day with the PrimaLuna dac and It is quite  addictive. It’s very musical and easy to have around. I can highly recommend giving it a trial if you have an opportunity. I would say the reviews on line are pretty accurate as to how this dac sounds. It’s lush and detailed all at the same time. Give it  30-40 minutes warm up time and it really shines.

The only clutch is I can’t get it to recognise the  usb from my blusound node. Optical no problems?? Hopefully the dealer can help me sort that.

I 100% agree about tube warm up time, the 400 takes about an hour to really flow....I even have an Apple tv 4k to stream Dolby  Atmos and something like Nina Simone "Little Girl Blue" from the mid-50s streamed at 16/44.1 then compressed through Dolby Digital still sounds fantastic.

[Silver Audiophile]

2 hours ago, Nick44 said:

Just to prove us audiophiles are incorrigible I have wondered about getting a tube DAC like the Primaluna Lol.

Having a Hybrid (tube/SS) DAC or tube DAC, is not only about the array of possible sound signatures with tube rolling.

Tube DAC are far superior sounding to even the best SS DACs. In the same way a pre amp sounds much nicer with tubes in the design.

You have to remember a DAC has a large analog section in the output stage. 

You need to get hold of a tube DAC and try it !

 

 

 

[Sean Perth]

Hi All

anyone here got  the Prima Luna evo 100 

Phono stage 

 

cheers 

 

sean 

[Hydrology]

2 hours ago, Silver Audiophile said:

Tube DAC are far superior sounding to even the best SS DACs. In the same way a pre amp sounds much nicer with tubes in the design.

 

While some of the best and musically engaging DACs I've heard are tube based, I'm not quite sure how you have come to this conclusion that they are categorically "superior", unless you forgot to leave out of your post, the very important phrase - "in my opinion".

 

It is simply ALWAYS a matter of taste.

 

That said, I am very much looking forward to hearing the new Fezz Audio Equinox Tube DAC powered by Lampizator, due into Australia in the next few weeks (and cheaper than previously thought):-

https://fezzaudio.com/en/produkt/gratia-mm-mc-kopia-2/

 

 

 

 

[muon*]

Try one of Clay's TDA1541A DACs, it doesn't need tubes to sound great.

 

Edit: but for the die hard must have tubes! he is developing one with a proper tube output.

 

Must be careful when categorizing some DACs as having a tube output stage, as many are merely SS output stages with a tube buffer tacked on the end.

Edited March 2, 2024 by muon*

[DdDesign]

18 minutes ago, Hydrology said:

 

 

 

That said, I am very much looking forward to hearing the new Fezz Audio Equinox Tube DAC powered by Lampizator, due into Australia in the next few weeks (and cheaper than previously thought):-

https://fezzaudio.com/en/produkt/gratia-mm-mc-kopia-2/

 

 

 

 

I aggree that could be a great dac. I heard they will retail at around $5K? 

[Silver Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Hydrology said:

 

While some of the best and musically engaging DACs I've heard are tube based, I'm not quite sure how you have come to this conclusion that they are categorically "superior", unless you forgot to leave out of your post, the very important phrase - "in my opinion".

 

It is simply ALWAYS a matter of taste.

 

 

Yes, I ought to have corrected my earlier statement. Since, I have been exposed to full tube-based DACs (in the output stage, no tube buffering)- it's not a matter of 'In my opinion'.

What I was trying to say.. I was totally winded, speechless, WTF and in shock!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Silver Audiophile]

2 hours ago, muon* said:

Try one of Clay's TDA1541A DACs, it doesn't need tubes to sound great.

Edit: but for the die hard must have tubes! he is developing one with a proper tube output.

Must be careful when categorizing some DACs as having a tube output stage, as many are merely SS output stages with a tube buffer tacked on the end.

Lovely DAC chip the TDA1541A. Even better when properly implemented in a full tube output (as you said). Abbas DAC 3.2 Signature is an example that comes to mind.

 

Full version Lampi DACs and Audio Note UK DACs too. TDA1541A chip sets were made and discontinued in the 1990s. Bit a rare commodity lately. 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2024 by Silver Audiophile

[Hydrology]

1 hour ago, DdDesign said:

I aggree that could be a great dac. I heard they will retail at around $5K? 

I believe $4,500.

[DdDesign]

Hi,

I have recently bought a PrimaLuna Eco 400 Amp and 2 weeks ago I started hearing intermittent popping sounds. I switched  the two centre  12AU7 tubes (small ones at the front) for the two either side of them. This resolved the issue but the popping returned again today, so I swapped back and again the issue resolved. 

 

I was wondering if anyone else with the Evo series has had this popping issue and if regular re-seating the tubes is a normal requirement with this amp? It's pretty much a brand new amp so Im wanting to understand if this is possibly more than a reseating issue? Could it be an issue with the connections or with the tubes? I wouldn't have expected the small 12AU7 tubes would need replacing after just a few weeks.

[oukouk]

41 minutes ago, DdDesign said:

Hi,

I have recently bought a PrimaLuna Eco 400 Amp and 2 weeks ago I started hearing intermittent popping sounds. I switched  the two centre  12AU7 tubes (small ones at the front) for the two either side of them. This resolved the issue but the popping returned again today, so I swapped back and again the issue resolved. 

 

I was wondering if anyone else with the Evo series has had this popping issue and if regular re-seating the tubes is a normal requirement with this amp? It's pretty much a brand new amp so Im wanting to understand if this is possibly more than a reseating issue? Could it be an issue with the connections or with the tubes? I wouldn't have expected the small 12AU7 tubes would need replacing after just a few weeks.

This is not normal,  I've never had such issues with mine (I had the evo 300 integrated)

@DdDesignDid you buy this new or used?

[DdDesign]

I bought it from a dealer as an open box. It’s still under warranty. It was  open box as it had been used sparingly at a trade show or similar. 

[oukouk]

6 minutes ago, DdDesign said:

I bought it from a dealer as an open box. It’s still under warranty. It was  open box as it had been used sparingly at a trade show or similar. 

I suggest you go back to them with it and advice them of the issue..

[Hydrology]

3 hours ago, DdDesign said:

Hi,

I have recently bought a PrimaLuna Eco 400 Amp and 2 weeks ago I started hearing intermittent popping sounds. I switched  the two centre  12AU7 tubes (small ones at the front) for the two either side of them. This resolved the issue but the popping returned again today, so I swapped back and again the issue resolved. 

 

I was wondering if anyone else with the Evo series has had this popping issue and if regular re-seating the tubes is a normal requirement with this amp? It's pretty much a brand new amp so Im wanting to understand if this is possibly more than a reseating issue? Could it be an issue with the connections or with the tubes? I wouldn't have expected the small 12AU7 tubes would need replacing after just a few weeks.

 

How consistent or regular is the "popping"? I ask because Ive come across "interference" from wifi enabled routers, mesh units and even streamers using onboard wifi in close proximity to tube-based products (and phono stages)

[DdDesign]

51 minutes ago, Hydrology said:

 

How consistent or regular is the "popping"? I ask because Ive come across "interference" from wifi enabled routers, mesh units and even streamers using onboard wifi in close proximity to tube-based products (and phono stages)

When it first presented it was relativity consistent every 20-40 seconds maybe extending to a minute between pops. What’s interesting though is that it stopped when I changed the tubes over and was good again for a couple of weeks. Just returned this morning, I swapped back the tubes and it’s fine again now???

 

[muon*]

5 minutes ago, DdDesign said:

When it first presented it was relativity consistent every 20-40 seconds maybe extending to a minute between pops. What’s interesting though is that it stopped when I changed the tubes over and was good again for a couple of weeks. Just returned this morning, I swapped back the tubes and it’s fine again now???

 

Might just be a poor contact with the tube pins, remove the tubes and clean the pins and reseat the tubes.

 

You can also carefully retention the clasps in the sockets that contact the pins using a small jewelers screwdriver..

https://swartamps.com/tech/socket_retention/

[Hydrology]

7 minutes ago, DdDesign said:

When it first presented it was relativity consistent every 20-40 seconds maybe extending to a minute between pops. What’s interesting though is that it stopped when I changed the tubes over and was good again for a couple of weeks. Just returned this morning, I swapped back the tubes and it’s fine again now???

 

OK, sounds like something else then. Usually with RF interference like WiFi, you get what sounds like a pulsing sound.

Having said that, if there is anything with WiFi in and around the vicinity, when the pops start happening, turn off those devices JUST to rule out any airborne interference.

[DdDesign]

6 minutes ago, muon* said:

Might just be a poor contact with the tube pins, remove the tubes and clean the pins and reseat the tubes.

 

You can also carefully retention the clasps in the sockets that contact the pins using a small jewelers screwdriver..

https://swartamps.com/tech/socket_retention/

I note the manual says not to  clean contacts. I’ll see what the dealer says as I don’t want to risk voiding the warranty.

[muon*]

47 minutes ago, DdDesign said:

I note the manual says not to  clean contacts. I’ll see what the dealer says as I don’t want to risk voiding the warranty.

You can dry clean the pins with a gray scotch-brite pad.

[xlr8or]

Caigs Deoxit D5 in the small bottle from Jaycar with Pikster size 0 and 00 dental brushes from Woolies or Coles works wonders in cleaning tube sockets. I'd also recommend cleaning up any left over residue afterwards with isopropyl alcohol and the same clean dental brushes. In between use paper towels to press and clean the dental brushes after each insertion. That way you can gauge any deviation away from the red colour of the D5 liquid infiltrated by any oxidised material. It normally turns to a greenish type colour. This process can also be repeated for the tube pins themselves using cotton buds instead.

 

I fully understand the warranty concern and a reluctance to do this. If that is the case then my advice at the very least is to try reinserting the tube in and out a few dozen times to see if any friction on the tube pins can remove the intermittent point/s of contact in the tube sockets.

Edited March 7, 2024 by xlr8or

[Silver Audiophile]

Primaluna makes lovely commercially available sounding tube gear. One issue identified previously in this PL thread was regarding the recurrent main fuse and/or rectifier tube blowing in the Preamps. 

The recommended solution was to replace the new production GZ34 rectifiers with any pair of more robustly constructed vintage tubes (Used or New Old Stock tubes). This prevented recurring issues and vastly improves the sound in my experience.

The reason for this post is to explain the potential cause of the issue being the first filter capacitor post rectifier tube being too high in capacitance value (when used with weakly constructed factory issued new production GZ34 tubes). 

The advantages of a higher first capacitance caps enables better smoothing of the DC from the rectifier tube (hence better sound from the signal tubes downstream), however, they do stress the rectifier tube more due to the much shorter charge up time each time these caps need to fill up with charge.

 

The video below uploaded to YouTube 2 months ago by Skunkie Designs made it much clearer to understand graphically what is actually happening. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2024 by Silver Audiophile

[Valik_t]

Good morning all,  I have a question about power tubes in EVO 400 integrated. I have 4 old KT150 tubes and 4 brand new KT150. I know that PL comes with autobias future, but should I simply put top row of new tubes and bottom row of old tubes or there would some recommendation to mix them and distribute per each channel? I have no idea how 8 tubes in PL assigned per left and right channel. Thanks in advance.

[oukouk]

27 minutes ago, Valik_t said:

Good morning all,  I have a question about power tubes in EVO 400 integrated. I have 4 old KT150 tubes and 4 brand new KT150. I know that PL comes with autobias future, but should I simply put top row of new tubes and bottom row of old tubes or there would some recommendation to mix them and distribute per each channel? I have no idea how 8 tubes in PL assigned per left and right channel. Thanks in advance.

Morning,  to my knowledge, the PL tubes are segregated left channel and right channel, thus installing a pair of old and a pair of new on each channel, i.e. put all old tubes top row (means 2 are apportioned to each left and right, and all the new tubes on 2nd row, (i.e. 2 are apportioned to each channel) - will give you correct distribution left to right.

 

Thus the arrangement suggested by yourself fits.

[xlr8or]

5 hours ago, Valik_t said:

Good morning all,  I have a question about power tubes in EVO 400 integrated. I have 4 old KT150 tubes and 4 brand new KT150. I know that PL comes with autobias future, but should I simply put top row of new tubes and bottom row of old tubes or there would some recommendation to mix them and distribute per each channel? I have no idea how 8 tubes in PL assigned per left and right channel. Thanks in advance.

 

I hope you don't mind the follow up question. How many hours are on the old ones?