jefftobin85 Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 hey all, sorry if this has been asked a million times but I am having difficulty finding answer online I just installed a groovtracer reference subplatter on my planner 3 (2016 model) and when i use the speed test app on my phone it comes up a little short. or is this a perfectly acceptable speed? would a difference like this really be noticeable ?
Red MacKay Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 My ears are far from great these days, but I can hear 'slow' and it annoys me. If a TT is running slightly fast, I don't seem to notice it and if I do - it doesn't seem to intrude on the listening experience.
a.dent Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 At least you won't have to get up and change your records as often!! Seriously though, I doubt you'd hear a difference.
jefftobin85 Posted August 12, 2021 Author Posted August 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, a.dent said: At least you won't have to get up and change your records as often!! Seriously though, I doubt you'd hear a difference. yeah it just annoys me since i upgraded to the neo psu and this subplater and i would expect it to be accurate like in this video
andyr Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 18 minutes ago, jefftobin85 said: hey all, sorry if this has been asked a million times but I am having difficulty finding answer online I just installed a groovtracer reference subplatter on my planer 3 (2016 model) and when i use the speed test app on my phone it comes up a little short. or is this a perfectly acceptable speed? would a difference like this really be noticeable ? I doubt that 32.89 rpm rather than 33.33 rpm is noticeable, Jeff. Given you have a Rega Planar 3 ... are you aware that Rega deliberately engineer their platters to run a bit faster than 33.33 rpm? (It gives them a more attractive sound in the showroom. ) I have seen a suggestion from some TT designers that, just as the frequency of 'A' has changed over the centuries (currently it's 440Hz - but it used to be 332Hz, back in the Baroque times), reducing your TT speed down from 33.33 rpm by the same difference as 332Hz is to 440Hz (so 32.72 rpm instead of 33.33 rpm) ... will make the sound you are hearing ... more attractive. Of course, not many TT speed controllers have this flexibility but as you are now measuring 32.89 rpm ... you would seem to be in the right ballpark. Andy
audiofeline Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 I agree with the above - you're unlikely to hear such a small difference in speed, but it all depends on your hearing/pitch sensitivity. I've also heard that the phone tachometer isn't 100% accurate, you might just have a measurement error. I've got a cheap laser tachometer from ebay/china. But no way of knowing how accurate it is, but I would think more accurate than a phone.
andyr Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, audiofeline said: I've also heard that the phone tachometer isn't 100% accurate, you might just have a measurement error. I've got a cheap laser tachometer from ebay/china. But no way of knowing how accurate it is, but I would think more accurate than a phone. Yes, the classic conundrum, af ... how do you calibrate your meter! Andy
frankn Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) Sutherland Engineering is known for excellent products and Ron builds a tt speed checker. https://sutherlandengineering.com/products/timeline/ They work very well, and I’d trust Ron’s calibration. Edited August 12, 2021 by frankn Spelling
jefftobin85 Posted August 12, 2021 Author Posted August 12, 2021 ok so I forgot the neo psui has a speed adjustment tool (im guess maybe it wasn't designed for the groovetracer so it lost some accuracy?...just a guess feel free to tell me if that makes me sound like a moron lol) but yeah i increased the speed on the neo psu a bit and now it tests a lot more accurate tested in 5 times and got the same result each time 3 1
frankn Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 I did see that the P3 can use its optional speed controller but I assumed you didn’t have one otherwise you’d have mentioned it.
jefftobin85 Posted August 12, 2021 Author Posted August 12, 2021 18 minutes ago, frankn said: I did see that the P3 can use its optional speed controller but I assumed you didn’t have one otherwise you’d have mentioned it. As far as I know the turntable itself doesn't but the beo psu I have does. I have tested it on both my android app on the galaxy s21 and on my girlfriends iPhone 11. I just haven't tested it on any music yet lol 1
frankn Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 There is another test you can also run if you want. Purchase https://www.audiophilereferencerecordings.com.au/analogue-productions-the-ultimate-analogue-test-lp.html Track 10 is a perfect 3150 Hz tone that is mastered close to perfection. In direct comparison to a German-made product, one can see that level is kept in a much narrower band. So there is only very small amplitude deviation visible. All of the other tracks are very useful as well. I have to give my highest recommendation to this record – a must have for any audiophile!" – Dr. Christian Feickert, Feickert Analog Products you can measure the playback as another check.
bob_m_54 Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 6 hours ago, jefftobin85 said: As far as I know the turntable itself doesn't but the beo psu I have does. I have tested it on both my android app on the galaxy s21 and on my girlfriends iPhone 11. I just haven't tested it on any music yet lol It is probably "close enough to be good enough", but there is a reason why test equipment costs more than phone apps..
andyr Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 8 hours ago, jefftobin85 said: ok so I forgot the neo psui has a speed adjustment tool (im guess maybe it wasn't designed for the groovetracer so it lost some accuracy?...just a guess feel free to tell me if that makes me sound like a moron lol) but yeah i increased the speed on the neo psu a bit and now it tests a lot more accurate tested in 5 times and got the same result each time If you want to be completely kosher ... the speed should be 33.33 rpm. Andy
evil c Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 13 hours ago, jefftobin85 said: hey all, sorry if this has been asked a million times but I am having difficulty finding answer online I just installed a groovtracer reference subplatter on my planner 3 (2016 model) and when i use the speed test app on my phone it comes up a little short. or is this a perfectly acceptable speed? would a difference like this really be noticeable ? Glad you started this thread because it has been on my mind for awhile! I was running the popular RPM app on my Android phone to verify speeds but had a nagging doubt it was quite inaccurate. To the point that adjusting the trim pots on my motor by ear gave me a mega low reading when tested again with my phone. Two days ago I again set my speeds to 33.33 and 45 exactly by my app. Decided to play my vinyl Beck - Sea change track "It's all in Your Mind" , and he sounded like a Chipmunk on Helium! Played the same track on digital,and it confirmed my suspicions- on this track he sings very sombrely and slowly at correct speed. So synching the digital and vinyl track together, and switching between the two while adjusting the speed - when happy it sounded virtually the same l again measured with the RPM app. 28.9 RPM !!! So to find out what the proper measurement was, just bought a Digital tachometer from Jaycar. The reading it gave from my adjusted by ear setting, was 33.5 so very close. 45 set with the app was closer,measured with the Tacho at exactly 46RPM. So l would suggest if you're serious about obtaining the correct speed, a Digital tachometer like mine will do the job well. 6
rockpig Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 I tried that RPM app ages ago just for fun, not because I thought my TT speed was off. It told me my German made turntable was a bit slow which I thought was a bit odd. To me the speed sounds correct and that is all that matters so decided the app was not very accurate and ignored it. Now my suspicion has been proven to be true by evil c. Thanks! 1
U_J Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 When I was running a TT I experimented with running it up and down in speed to hear the effect, I found on some records I preferred to run it slightly slow and on others slightly fast ! Just shows that speed and pitch are not necessarily absolute in music ( or it could be that they mastered the album slightly fast just to fit it on the lacquer ! )
audiofeline Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 38 minutes ago, U_J said: When I was running a TT I experimented with running it up and down in speed to hear the effect, I found on some records I preferred to run it slightly slow and on others slightly fast ! Just shows that speed and pitch are not necessarily absolute in music ( or it could be that they mastered the album slightly fast just to fit it on the lacquer ! ) They got the speed wrong when Miles Davis Kind of Blue was first released on CD. It's an example of when the remastered CD (at the correct speed) is an essential purchase!
frankn Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 10 hours ago, andyr said: If you want to be completely kosher ... the speed should be 33.33 rpm. Andy Only if the tt is playing a track from an album at the time of the speed check. Drag from the stylus will impact , possibly as much as 0.01 rpm!! LOL.
evil c Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, frankn said: Only if the tt is playing a track from an album at the time of the speed check. Drag from the stylus will impact , possibly as much as 0.01 rpm!! LOL. If you ran at 33.30, it would be out obviously by 3/100 of a revolution. Good luck picking that, if the best l could do by ear was .1666 out! Tend to agree with some people, if it sounds better slightly faster- nobody's getting hurt! Although the perfectionists, (including myself), can't bear the thought of inaccuracies!
GregWormald Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 I remember when the best speed check was a strobe disk. I wonder if it still is. How consistent is our 50 Hz electric power frequency? 1
frankn Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, GregWormald said: I remember when the best speed check was a strobe disk. I wonder if it still is. How consistent is our 50 Hz electric power frequency? Got one of those too. Make sure the battery in the hand-held strobe unit is fresh. Lol.
GregWormald Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 1 minute ago, frankn said: Got one of those too. Make sure the battery in the hand-held strobe unit is fresh. Lol. Battery? Hand-held strobe unit? I just turn on the lights. 2 1
bob_m_54 Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 2 hours ago, evil c said: If you ran at 33.30, it would be out obviously by 3/100 of a revolution. Good luck picking that, if the best l could do by ear was .1666 out! Tend to agree with some people, if it sounds better slightly faster- nobody's getting hurt! Although the perfectionists, (including myself), can't bear the thought of inaccuracies! Then you're not going to like that the resolution on your digital tacho is only 0.1 RPM.. ie 10/100 of a spin. LOL
evil c Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: Then you're not going to like that the resolution on your digital tacho is only 0.1 RPM.. ie 10/100 of a spin. LOL Sometimes l wonder why l bother!!??
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