ML2 Limited With HD3

[Guest]

But this is a thread about Lenehan speakers.... in the sponsor section under Lenehan audio.

 

That's right guys. It is indeed. Those that do not wish to take part constructively in the thread can move on, and those trolling it will find themselves on a small break from SNA.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it's sometimes required. Some posts have been removed from this thread.

[Rob181]

HELP...got some photos I want to post to this thread...how do I do that....Rob

[Cafad]

Just click on the "more reply options" button Rob, it'll take you to the full editor and you can upload pics as per usual.

 

 

Looks like I missed a doozy up above!

Edited March 15, 2013 by Cafad

[Rob181]

OK…a declaration up front…I have ordered a pair of ML2 R LE speakers so no doubt any subsequent comments need to read with that declaration in mind.

 

Contrary to what Bill has said…not all LE’s have a copper lining…mine don’t. In fact, thus far I do not believe there are 2 exactly the same in build spec.

 

My build spec is:

HD3 Enclosures – Cast & Copper Braces – Outboard Crossovers (but different to all others) – Dueland Cast Caps & Resisters – Bybees on the speaker terminals – ML2R LE stands

 

Why…well I am planning for my future. I have owned Ambience Ribbons for 5 years now (I sold my VFR 800 to buy them…for those of you who know bikes will also know how hard that decision was) and nothing comes close in their price range…BUT they are NOT… apartment friendly…WFA is low…as is resale value. I plan to keep mine and have Mike rebuild the crossovers.

 

Bill said he might get his ML2R LE's in a few weeks…I doubt it….esoteric niche builders take time…but what they produce for the $ investment is sensational.

 

With Mike’s permission…here are some photos of my speakers part way through there build…show me another pair with the level of cross bracing and remember these are internally lined with a 19 ml thick steel plate…and the thickness of the steal cross brace has to be seen to be believed….have a GREAT weekend all…Rob

 

 

 

[Ando]

I have enough MD3 left overs to maybe make one pair of these speakers. I figure if I keep it until Mike runs out I will be able to sell it to someone desperate for a special pair of Lenehans for a premium price !

Cheers Mike.

[bhobba]

I have enough MD3 left overs to maybe make one pair of these speakers. I figure if I keep it until Mike runs out I will be able to sell it to someone desperate for a special pair of Lenehans for a premium price !

Cheers Mike.

 

I think that's HD3 - but yea - its scarcity is an issue - why did they stop making it?

 

Its going to get worse with Mike as well - he must keep some aside for the wild Isobarics he will be building.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

Contrary to what Bill has said…not all LE’s have a copper lining…mine don’t. In fact, thus far I do not believe there are 2 exactly the same in build spec.

 

My build spec is:

HD3 Enclosures – Cast & Copper Braces – Outboard Crossovers (but different to all others) – Dueland Cast Caps & Resisters – Bybees on the speaker terminals – ML2R LE stands.

 

Bill said he might get his ML2R LE's in a few weeks…I doubt it….esoteric niche builders take time…but what they produce for the $ investment is sensational.

 

Great pickies.

 

Yea with any of Mikes speakers, but especially the Limited, he will sit down and discuss exactly what you want and what it costs - the result is since no two persons requirements and budgets are the same no two Limited's are likely the same.

 

Mine of course are different again.  

 

It will be very interesting hearing all the slightly different builds of the eight that are in the pipe line - if I and others can get down there of course before they are shipped.

 

Thanks

Bill 

Edited March 16, 2013 by bhobba

[Ando]

Whoops yes HD3. I guess they stopped making it cause it was heavy , expensive , very hard on tools and very few were prepared to pay to use it for its original purpose such as partitions in public toilets when there were cheaper alternatives.

I remember Mike showing me his stash a few years ago and saying he was saving it for special projects.

If Mike runs out for your iosabarics maybe I'll trade my bits for one of your dacs.

Cheers Mike

[DoggieHowser]

Mike told me the manufacturer's pressing machinery finally gave up the magic blue smoke and the price/demand didn't justify getting a new one built.

[Cafad]

The big problem here, as I see it, is that Bill may not be able to evaluate all of these different builds due to Mikes customers demanding their speakers.  Slowing Mike down would be detrimental to the cause but maybe we could speed Bill up somehow. 

 

Have you considered turbo charging that chariot of yours Bill?

[Telecine]

The big problem here, as I see it, is that Bill may not be able to evaluate all of these different builds due to Mikes customers demanding their speakers. Slowing Mike down would be detrimental to the cause but maybe we could speed Bill up somehow.

Have you considered turbo charging that chariot of yours Bill?

Forgot the chariot, how about turbo charging Bill? I have seen him in action, he could do with a turbo charger ; ) Edited March 16, 2013 by Telecine

[bhobba]

The big problem here, as I see it, is that Bill may not be able to evaluate all of these different builds due to Mikes customers demanding their speakers. 

 

It's not just me that wants to hear them mate - quite a few do.

 

And yes most customers, understandably, want them ASAP.  Personally, knowing the big difference it makes, I want Mike to burn mine in at least 300 hours before I get them.

 

Thanks

Bill

Edited March 16, 2013 by bhobba

[Cafad]

Forgot the chariot, how about turbo charging Bill? I have seen him in action, he could do with a turbo charger ; )

 

A strict regimen of Red Bull and chocolate coated coffee beans should do it.

[Cafad]

It's not just me that wants to hear them mate - quite a few do.

 

And yes most customers, understandably, want them ASAP.  Personally, knowing the big difference it makes, I want Mike to burn mine in at least 300 hours before I get them.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

Yeah, I know what you mean there Bill.  My S2s are three times the speakers they once were now that they've run in for 450 hours or so.  Like fine wines and single malts speakers improve with age.

[Lenehan Audio]

Sorry, kdoot, but that's rubbish and you probably know that. If you don't, than I can't help you.

 

And this weight you're claiming that makes these loudspeakers sound awesome comes from heavy components used in the crossover network? Copper lined, I agree will make them very heavy, will move the frequency at which they will vibrate, but in itself does not automatically equate to awesome sound in a loudspeaker.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Hi Keith. I guess the first line of your post could be considered a little provocative ? The context is inconsequential by the way it's purely the text which is offensive ! Last word here for you if you choose ?

OK now to the biz ! You've got some design chops here so I'll address my response to you. We all remember the Celestion series in the 80's I believe which used Aerolamb. (Boeing 727 flooring) cheap and cheerfull commercial flooring, the requirement here was high rigidity low mass for obvious reasons. The premise here with loudspeaker applications is the panel will stop much faster after excitation,in other words secondary energy storage release is faster than with a high mass panel because it's lower mass stops faster.

Ok that's great it's just that the high rigidity lower mass panel is easier to start moving in the first place ! DRAT ! Could we have a high mass panel for primary excitation then have it convert to a low mass panel for the decay cycle ? DRAT. Double DRAT ! Now we need to have a two way enclosure.

We've done massive R&D over the last 30 years with probably countless prototypes trying to nut the best formula. I must admit that we've only had CSD,ETC and PDF accelerometer testing equipment for the last 10 years but the early lessons were never forgotten.

High mass combined with high damping is what we have found works best currently and it's the high damping which is the most difficult to achieve because of the secondary decay cycle that the damping is for of course.

The copper plating is simply superior to steel because it provides a better ground plane and decays enclosure energy storage much faster than steel. I notice someone disagreed with this earlier in the thread calling it incorrect on many levels.

Regards Mike Lenehan

[cheekyboy]

Hi Keith. I guess the first line of your post could be considered a little provocative ? The context is inconsequential by the way it's purely the text which is offensive ! Last word here for you if you choose ? 

 

I thought I had sorted this with kdoot and he had jumped in on the back of a response of mine to bhobba, so, I don't know why you want to dredge it up again? What I said, I still feel was correct, wasn't meant to be provocative and I'm sure both you and kdoot know that to be the case......................last word here for you, if you choose!

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

[Luc]

it provides a better ground plane and decays enclosure energy storage much faster than steel

I don't think I could explain what a 'ground plane' does to anyone who asked me as I don't know what that means. It sounds vaguely electrical, like grounding a house for instance so maybe that's what it is but could lead do this any quicker or slower than copper or steel in an enclosure or not at all?

 

I know you don't have a lead sheet rod banged into the ground next to your house but rather a steel rod encased in a thin copper sheath with the earth wire attached to it. Is this the principle your alluding to here Mr L?

[bhobba]

I don't think I could explain what a 'ground plane' does to anyone who asked me as I don't know what that means. It sounds vaguely electrical, like grounding a house for instance so maybe that's what it is but could lead do this any quicker or slower than copper or steel in an enclosure or not at all?

 

I know you don't have a lead sheet rod banged into the ground next to your house but rather a steel rod encased in a thin copper sheath with the earth wire attached to it. Is this the principle your alluding to here Mr L?

 

Hi Luc

 

Its like enclosing the drivers and crossover in a Faraday Cage - Mike found it improves the sound.  Copper is better at it than steel.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/faraday-cage.htm

 

Its one reason there are pros and cons for the external crossover me and some others are getting.  Inside the speaker its shielded, outside its not, but there is less vibration.  That's one reason it will be interesting hearing all the different variations.

 

Thanks

Bill

Edited March 17, 2013 by bhobba

[Luc]

Ta Bill for that. I'm not antagonistic towards these speakers at all and having heard Mikes gear at the GC GTG I honestly can say that hte sound is...well lets just say that there is a reason why so many people like this and wax lyrical about them.

 

I'm just curious from a "Gee I wish I knew what you guys were talking about' point of view and I've tried to ask my question in my layman type brain's question..lol.

 

No vibration. That's the biggy isn't it? If you put your hand on top of a speaker while it's playing sound and you can feel it...that means vibration doesn't it and that means a fail?

Hence all this isolation going on inside the box and not just Lenehan enclosures at that?

[caddisgeek]

this stuff? http://www.mitchellgroup.com.au/ml/images/product-pics/temp/Mitchell%20Laminates%20-%20hd3_decorated.pdf

I reckon he should start raiding public toilets for it.. shouldn't be hard to identify it, just look for the ones without any glory holes drilled in em..  :lol:

 

If these speakers are made out of dunny doors, maybe a more appropriate name would be "Thunder Boxes" 

[Lenehan Audio]

I don't think I could explain what a 'ground plane' does to anyone who asked me as I don't know what that means. It sounds vaguely electrical, like grounding a house for instance so maybe that's what it is but could lead do this any quicker or slower than copper or steel in an enclosure or not at all?

 

I know you don't have a lead sheet rod banged into the ground next to your house but rather a steel rod encased in a thin copper sheath with the earth wire attached to it. Is this the principle your alluding to here Mr L?

Indeed Luc. Some of these principals are at play here ! Very early on the Japanese made a very very good sounding valve radio tuner that used a big heavy copper ground plane . At the time everyone just thought it was because they knew how to make a tuner , ok I'm sure they did. However it also became known much later on that the heavy ground plane which was ostensibly there for safety reasons was also helping the device sound good.

Ok now onto the copper clad posts we all have driven into the ground just near the power box ! It's copper clad for two reasons ,the first is that copper is the best conductor this side of silver and allows as close as possible to a Zero Ohm Earth in your back yard.

Secondly it's only copper clad because the post has to be physically driven into the ground and copper would bend. If you want the ultimate Zero Ohm Earth you need to get a drilling rig in and bore a 50mm hole 5mtrs down and sink a genuine heavy solid copper rod down then fill the rest of the 50mm void with conductive paste. After that connect 500 amp welding cable to the end of the post directly to your power ground !! Now that's an Earth !

Earth ! EARTH ! E A R T H is vitally important and in some ways more important than signal path connections. The ground plane connections on our loudspeakers are intrinsic to there performance . Regards Mike Lenehan

[Audiobugged]

Indeed Luc. Some of these principals are at play here ! Very early on the Japanese made a very very good sounding valve radio tuner that used a big heavy copper ground plane . At the time everyone just thought it was because they knew how to make a tuner , ok I'm sure they did. However it also became known much later on that the heavy ground plane which was ostensibly there for safety reasons was also helping the device sound good.

Ok now onto the copper clad posts we all have driven into the ground just near the power box ! It's copper clad for two reasons ,the first is that copper is the best conductor this side of silver and allows as close as possible to a Zero Ohm Earth in your back yard.

Secondly it's only copper clad because the post has to be physically driven into the ground and copper would bend. If you want the ultimate Zero Ohm Earth you need to get a drilling rig in and bore a 50mm hole 5mtrs down and sink a genuine heavy solid copper rod down then fill the rest of the 50mm void with conductive paste. After that connect 500 amp welding cable to the end of the post directly to your power ground !! Now that's an Earth !

Earth ! EARTH ! E A R T H is vitally important and in some ways more important than signal path connections. The ground plane connections on our loudspeakers are intrinsic to there performance . Regards Mike Lenehan

A very earthy response from a down to earth designer. 😄

[Lenehan Audio]

If these speakers are made out of dunny doors, maybe a more appropriate name would be "Thunder Boxes" 

Hi caddiesgeek. HD3 was in fact originally developed by Laminex Industries for less wealthy Councils and municipalities who could not afford Terrazo partitions in there public facilities. It's very heavy,well damped and inert. Regards Mike Lenehan

[caddisgeek]

Thanks Mike, just a (admittedly poor) attempt at humour.

 

This might be a silly question, but should I be earthing my passive speakers?

[Luc]

Thanks Mr L for that explanation, it makes sense in an easy way that I can understand, I appreciate it.

 

Another question if you have the time at some stage to answer:  If HD3 is "very heavy,well damped and inert." then by inference so is Terrazzo or Granite or perhaps Ebony lined with lead[?] or...[ add your own heavy material] so why not build speaker enclosures out of these heavy blokes? Is it because of the practical realities as in they're just too heavy for your average punter and difficult to work with, also your choice of colours and visual appeal are somewhat lessoned?