CRIMPING cable terminations.......... Worth it ?

[mfforever]

Hi all .........Read the blurb about WBT crimping for attaching bananas to speaker cables. ......   all sounds pretty plausible to me.  Thinking of crimping two separate speaker wires into the WBT cable end sleeves and then connecting into the one banana plug ( bi wiring situation ) ,     I do single cable wire termination  as well.   ( I maintain my 2 kids audio systems and they move a bit so I am constantly modifying their cables for the new place ...... don't mind this at all as they love music so I must have done something right in their upbringing )

 

What are your experiences  with crimping as opposed to soldering and/ or grub screw connection into bare wires ?

Is crimping better ? Worth it  ?     Would love to hear from members with far more experience than me in this.

[agelessgoodguy]

Hmmm in electronics and back in the day say 50 years ago as a Systems Engineer for a new electronics co, our head Electronics designer was always against soldering if wrapping couldn't be effected as his preferred junction system crimping came in second and soldering whilst necessary on the PCB's it wasn't considered for primary wiring connections. Wrapping is a form of metal to metal connection where a longish square post say 1mm x 1.5 mm was wrapped by a bared length of copper wire directly, this obviously used a fair bit more conductor to wrap say a 30-40mm long piece of the connection post the wire conductor eventually is in contact with. Special hand powered wrapping tools were used for this process and most wires were single or very low cored ones. Now I'm not sure I answered all you asked, but I got that off my chest mfforever!

[mfforever]

Hi Agelessgoodguy .......    now that is the voice of long experience in audio electronics.  The current research agrees with you that soldering is probably not the first option. Would love to have seen those hand powered wrapping tools .....   who knows what I could do with them now. Thank you for your advice and I hope that you are still listening to good audio. All the best.

[Addicted to music]

Crimping is necessary for high temperature and corrosive environments.  

[Jakeyb77_Redux]

I’m going to be using crimped spade quick disconnect for my Duntech restoration. The woofers were connected this way and the binding posts I wanted suggest to use them to connect. 
I wasn’t happy with it to start but all research I’ve done suggests a good connection is better than solder as solder is usually the bottleneck. 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Jakeyb77_Redux

[bob_m_54]

12 hours ago, agelessgoodguy said:

Hmmm in electronics and back in the day say 50 years ago as a Systems Engineer for a new electronics co, our head Electronics designer was always against soldering if wrapping couldn't be effected as his preferred junction system crimping came in second and soldering whilst necessary on the PCB's it wasn't considered for primary wiring connections. Wrapping is a form of metal to metal connection where a longish square post say 1mm x 1.5 mm was wrapped by a bared length of copper wire directly, this obviously used a fair bit more conductor to wrap say a 30-40mm long piece of the connection post the wire conductor eventually is in contact with. Special hand powered wrapping tools were used for this process and most wires were single or very low cored ones. Now I'm not sure I answered all you asked, but I got that off my chest mfforever!

Then years later, when these wrapped connections became problematic for proper conductance, a tech came along and soldered them. Well I know I have done quite a few. LOL. And I still have a couple of old hand powered wrapping tools around somewhere..

[bob_m_54]

1 hour ago, Jakeyb77_Redux said:

I’m going to be using crimped spade quick disconnect for my Duntech restoration. The woofers were connected this way and the binding posts I wanted suggest to use them to connect. 
I wasn’t happy with it to start but all research I’ve done suggests a good connection is better than solder as solder is usually the bottleneck. 

 

Soldering, if done properly, isn't a problem at all. Same as poorly crimped terminals can be a problem. It all depends on the skill of the operator, the correct tools for the job, and using the correct parts for the job.

[davewantsmoore]

17 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said:

Same as poorly crimped terminals can be a problem.

Yes.

 

If we are going to properly crimp a connection to the point of "cold weld" .... then crimping is superior .... but improperly crimping is a big problem, and in that case, it would be better soldered.

 

I don't think the termination of speaker wire and connectors should be underestimated for SQ...   I suspect most instances of "I can hear a difference with some speaker cables" can be traced back to it.

[bob_m_54]

1 minute ago, davewantsmoore said:

Yes.

 

If we are going to properly crimp a connection to the point of "cold weld" .... then crimping is superior .... but improperly crimping is a big problem, and in that case, it would be better soldered.

 

I don't think the termination of speaker wire and connectors should be underestimated for SQ...   I suspect most instances of "I can hear a difference with some speaker cables" can be traced back to it.

That's the thing though. People seem to think that crimping is the magic bullet for a better quality connection. But when you see some of the efforts I have seen. Incorrect crimping tool used. Incorrect guage wire for the terminal etc. In those cases, the connection is no better than a poorly soldered connection. But soldering is also fraught with possibilities of a very poor connection, for the untrained, using bad tools.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of properly crimped connections (30 years in aircraft maintenance), but I am also a big fan of properly soldered connections, where appropriate, even for wire to post or socket connections. And having a strong background in hand soldering techniques, I know they can be relied upon to give an excellent electrical connection.

[Addicted to music]

53 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said:

That's the thing though. People seem to think that crimping is the magic bullet for a better quality connection. But when you see some of the efforts I have seen. Incorrect crimping tool used. Incorrect guage wire for the terminal etc. In those cases, the connection is no better than a poorly soldered connection. But soldering is also fraught with possibilities of a very poor connection, for the untrained, using bad tools.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of properly crimped connections (30 years in aircraft maintenance), but I am also a big fan of properly soldered connections, where appropriate, even for wire to post or socket connections. And having a strong background in hand soldering techniques, I know they can be relied upon to give an excellent electrical connection.

youll find that all current wiring are no longer soldered on to any plugs whether it be for a connector to a pcb or a power terminal.    Most, if not all gear these days regardless of gauge wiring are ALL crimped connection out of the factory.  They don’t solder wires onto the pcb like they did in the 80s….   Certain audio companies will not use the latest techniques in production hence the reason you’ll see some soldering applied….   Most Asian made gear will use High quality Molex connectors where even the females of the spades have springs inside them if the latching lugs opened up and go loose, something you don’t see in ANY audio manufacturing device.  Even colour coding wiring is a thing of the pass which is a real PITA, but because the wiring is getting better, we rarely have issues.

[afa]

In some Bose 901 speakers, the external speaker connections are screw wire terminals, the inside wiring is wire wrap, the speaker driver tinsel leads are soldered on to the terminal end and the other end of the tinsel lead is crimped to the voice coil wire (flat aluminum wire).


Any join, if done properly with the right parts and technique,  should perform correctly ( and probably outlast the life of the equipment )

[mfforever]

As always in the Forums, great advice and experience here .... thank you to all. As I have almost zero skills in soldering, I'm thinking my best bet would be crimping ....... thinking of treating myself ( Xmas is coming) to the WBT crimping tool and the associated cable end sleeves in various sizes ....... then watch a few You tubes and then practise a lot before I have a go at my real cables.  Will be fun ..... love doing new stuff and have picked up an old  pair of JBL L5 to rework ....... bracing, bitumen lining, rewire, add bigger base plate for hefty spikes, check cross overs for recap issues ( now that's going to be a steep learning curve as I never even used a thingamajiggy  ( you know .... it measures electrical stuff ).   I've retired so time is not an issue and it's always good to try new things.

[sloper]

l was always a solder guy until a  couple of years ago when l was researching aircraft electricals.

 

Solder can wick up the wire  and with vibration fatige and the joint and snap.

So now l use a crimped connector with a heat shrink coller.

 

regards Bruce

[mfforever]

Thanks Bruce ........ that's what I'm thinking.

[bob_m_54]

4 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

youll find that all current wiring are no longer soldered on to any plugs whether it be for a connector to a pcb or a power terminal.    Most, if not all gear these days regardless of gauge wiring are ALL crimped connection out of the factory.  They don’t solder wires onto the pcb like they did in the 80s….   Certain audio companies will not use the latest techniques in production hence the reason you’ll see some soldering applied….   Most Asian made gear will use High quality Molex connectors where even the females of the spades have springs inside them if the latching lugs opened up and go loose, something you don’t see in ANY audio manufacturing device.  Even colour coding wiring is a thing of the pass which is a real PITA, but because the wiring is getting better, we rarely have issues.

That is correct. In almost all cases they use a modular system with plugged cables between boards. But that isn't the point of the question, or my reply.

[bob_m_54]

1 hour ago, sloper said:

l was always a solder guy until a  couple of years ago when l was researching aircraft electricals.

 

Solder can wick up the wire  and with vibration fatige and the joint and snap.

So now l use a crimped connector with a heat shrink coller.

 

regards Bruce

Yep, 99.9% of connections in aircraft wiring is crimped connections. But inside some of the equipment they still use soldered wire to post connections. For example, a panel switch on the box is usually connected via soldered leads, unless the switches are directly mounted on a PCB behind the equipment face plate.

 

But those crimped connections are also done with part number specific terminals, which takes into account the size of the wire and the wire accommodation of the terminal. And the crimping tools they use are specified in the manuals, and are calibrated and certified.

 

Not some dodgy ebay close enough is good enough tools LOL

[Guest crankit]

Paging Dr silver solder, Dr silver solder

[bob_m_54]

Just now, crankit said:

Paging Dr silver solder, Dr silver solder

Silver solder is a hard solder, for soldering things like cutting edges to lathe tools. You probably mean silver loaded solder, or silver bearing solder...

[Jakeyb77_Redux]

Good luck on the project @mfforever.

And if you’re ever re-wiring an aircraft in your back yard it’s good to know you’ve received advice on that too

[mfforever]

Hey Jakey  ...... definitely the next project ..... one of those old F-111 should be pretty cheap as a fixer -uppera ( but I've heard they are pretty hard to find in one piece )

[Jakeyb77_Redux]

1 hour ago, mfforever said:

Hey Jakey  ...... definitely the next project ..... one of those old F-111 should be pretty cheap as a fixer -uppera ( but I've heard they are pretty hard to find in one piece )

you better invite me over for some Kenny Loggins Iceman! 

[tubularbells]

4 minutes ago, Jakeyb77_Redux said:

you better invite me over for some Kenny Loggins Iceman! 

Don't want no "Danger Zone" in those crimps!

[Leinster Lad]

Back in my PTSN cabling days, terminating 50 pair cables down to individual circuits of single strand wire in the MDF was done by wrap then solder.

The wrap provided a very good metal to metal contact on the sharp edges of the buss-bar and the solder effectively sealed the joint from the air. 

 

We then progress to the "Krone" punch down terminal strips. much quicker ! ( but same principal. metal to metal contact on a sharp edge.)

 

[bob_m_54]

15 hours ago, Jakeyb77_Redux said:

Good luck on the project @mfforever.

And if you’re ever re-wiring an aircraft in your back yard it’s good to know you’ve received advice on that too

The point being though, that for some reason there is a perception that audio equipment connections are more demanding in electrical and mechanical properties, than methods proven to be very effective in the aircraft electrical and avionics fields..

[mfforever]

Thanks Bob-m-54............. I'm glad that is the case.....   I would rather have a faulty speaker in the lounge room than a faulty plane in the air.