Cost-effective Hi-res Streaming to a Superior DAC

[doogie44]

Currently I stream QOBUZ via my Cambridge Audio CXN V1. It's alright. But I have been dreaming of streaming hi-res to a superior DAC.

 

Here's the situation: in an unrelenting effort to understand how to stream QOBUZ to a top flight stand-alone DAC (such as a Denafrips R2R type) I have run foul of certain computer knowledge issues or paid subscription issues. I'm suggesting the RPi4 because others have implied that this is an excellent solution to choosing the streaming source - music server - DAC chain. [I'm not even sure if I could use the CXN to stream QOBUZ to another DAC.]

 

Obviously I would then need the music server (software interface). That 'chain' is the full extent of my digital knowledge at present. I read about the different efforts of many audiophiles to organise this interface and my eyes glazed over...repeatedly. I used to have a Logitech Squeezebox years ago and I was satisfied; I naturally assumed that things/interfaces would progress with R & D from there (onwards and upwards). Wrong! They have become infinitely more complicated, expensive and opaque to me.

 

I never realised that being an audiophile in 2021 would mean a post-grad degree in computer programming. I don't wish to spend many thousands on the single box upmarket DACS since streaming is not my main listening.

 

What would the brains trust suggest? Note that:

 

1. I can't program code

2. I don't really understand digital architecture

3. I do appreciate fine music reproduction. Happy with QOBUZ hi-res

4. If I have to spend big to get a simple, plug & play, idiot-proof solution--I will

5. I can co-opt the services of an IT professional in my extended family (I have a sneaking suspicion this will be the only way for me to succeed)

 

Nevertheless, I think that there must be a digital answer in 2022 that won't cost the earth. I'm happy to consider any approach (see point 5). I won't whinge if there is no simple solution.

[TheBlackDisc]

Coax digital out from your Cambridge into the dac.

[doogie44]

Even I could do that!

[TheBlackDisc]

You’ll lose the volume control (if that’s an issue ie you run the Cambridge strait into a power amp) - but aside from that, it will operate (as far as user interface) exactly as it does now.

[doogie44]

In conclusion, and after much reflection, and more research, I realise that I have done little but demonstrate my digital ignorance. I do see that many people have sorted this problem out by spending big on 'solutions' (Roon; Bluesound; Lumin; Denafrips; Aurender etc etc)

 

I am like the driver who can manipulate a car but who has no idea at all about how the car works! Now I'm sympathetic to those who don't want to know--just have a car that works! 

 

Yes, I am the guy who had all his steering wheel commands decommissioned on his VW Golf.

 

I think it would be a terrific service for members like me for SNA to have a simple general Forum page on common digital terms/architecture/acronyms/methodologies---with particular attention to how things actually work and why. [Or not work, as is so often the case...]

 

In my case I have ordered a Denafrips Pontus 2 from Dacman (Stavros); an Audioquest Cinnamon digital coaxial cable and an upmarket power cord. I sincerely hope that I don't have to understand more than this. I have to get back to the music as I have wasted far too much valuable time trying to do something I'm not suited for. I leave the digital knowing to others.

 

But thanks for the help.

 

 

[Jventer]

@doogie44

There is some good news. You do not need much IT knowledge to stream. If you do not wish to use your current Cambridge Audio  you could look, for example, at:

• Rasberry Pi's (assembly required)
• Sonore's Rendu products
• SOtM products
• Auralic products
• Allo products (assembly required)
• Lumin products

All of them basically connect via a ethernet cable or wifi to your network. No programming required. You just need to use the native player in the case of Auralic or pick one of the other apps like Volumio, Bubbleupnp, etc. 

 

I agree that a page/topic to explain these things will help.

 

Hope you enjoy the dac when it arrives.

 

[Steffen]

I think simplicity and functionality are the goals to strive for. All-in-one streamers may well be the answer, but I’m reluctant to buying into those for their lack of software flexibility. I don’t like to be dependent on manufacturer firmware updates and prefer to use a general purpose computer and choose from a variety of software for music playback (local or streaming). Unless you desire complete shielding from computer-related issues consider using a dedicated computer for audio playback.

 

My preferred system consists of a dedicated computer (Mac mini in my case), a DAC that can take all resolutions you can throw at it (a Topping D90 in my case) and an amp plus speakers to match your room.

 

Beyond functionality and objective performance, don’t get roped in by boutique digital components, the audible differences are largely in the land of make believe.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Steffen

[tripitaka]

Enjoyed hearing your musing @doogie44 and can sympathise with everything!

 

I doubt that your suggestion for a 'simple' outline of digital methodologies etc is going to fly, for the reasons that there are too many approaches and technologies to unpack and also that the value of certain digital hardware is much more controversial than, say, the relative merits of vinyl vs cd

 

I spent a ridiculous amount of time back in 2016 getting up to speed on digital.  No regrets, I had nothing more pressing to do and it was quite interesting, but I can easily appreciate why someone would baulk at it!!

 

Enjoy your new dac

[Andythiing]

 

hi res for dummies

Edited December 28, 2021 by Andythiing

[Ittaku]

13 hours ago, doogie44 said:

In my case I have ordered a Denafrips Pontus 2 from Dacman (Stavros); an Audioquest Cinnamon digital coaxial cable and an upmarket power cord.

Okay. I guess you didn't get many responses and ended up doing the research yourself. Enjoy your new DAC!

[Dolphy]

Do you have an integrated amp?

 

The setup would look like:

 

Modem Router (via wifi or ethernet) > Cambridge CXN (via coax) > DAC (via RCA) > Amp > Speakers.

[doogie44]

Thanks, team. My audiophilia nervosa spasm is subsiding...

[Crunchynut]

I agree the digital world is complicated!

 

I can’t answer your question specifically and hope that your purchases work well together. For others who may be asking the same, this is my solution :-

 

Apple Lossless streaming service > CD quality streaming using Airplay> iFi Zen Stream transport > USB connection > REM ADI-2 FS DAC > amp and speakers. The Zen Stream can output over coax or USB so I chose the interface designed for digital!

 

good luck all.

[ray4410]

On 28/12/2021 at 6:03 PM, doogie44 said:

In conclusion, and after much reflection, and more research, I realise that I have done little but demonstrate my digital ignorance. I do see that many people have sorted this problem out by spending big on 'solutions' (Roon; Bluesound; Lumin; Denafrips; Aurender etc etc)

 

I am like the driver who can manipulate a car but who has no idea at all about how the car works! Now I'm sympathetic to those who don't want to know--just have a car that works! 

 

Yes, I am the guy who had all his steering wheel commands decommissioned on his VW Golf.

 

I think it would be a terrific service for members like me for SNA to have a simple general Forum page on common digital terms/architecture/acronyms/methodologies---with particular attention to how things actually work and why. [Or not work, as is so often the case...]

Denafrips Pontus 2 from Dacman (Stavros); a

In my case I have ordered an Audioquest Cinnamon digital coaxial cable and an upmarket power cord. I sincerely hope that I don't have to understand more than this. I have to get back to the music as I have wasted far too much valuable time trying to do something I'm not suited for. I leave the digital knowing to others.

 

But thanks for the help.

 

 

 

had the exact same setup( Denafrips Pontus 2 from Dacman (Stavros); a

In my case I have ordered an Audioquest Cinnamon digital coaxial cable and an upmarket power cord)
sounded awesome, you will be very happy with your final decision,enjoy 

[doogie44]

And here, at the end of 2021, for the ignorant following this thread in hope of enlightenment, is a review of the iFi Zen Stream from The Absolute Sound: a comprehensive and clear, simply-written article in good English about a basic, cost-effective streamer that I understand perfectly (even most acronyms). 

 

At last.

 

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ifi-zen-stream

[Andythiing]

26 minutes ago, doogie44 said:

And here, at the end of 2021, for the ignorant following this thread in hope of enlightenment, is a review of the iFi Zen Stream from The Absolute Sound: a comprehensive and clear, simply-written article in good English about a basic, cost-effective streamer that I understand perfectly (even most acronyms). 

 

At last.

 

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ifi-zen-stream

Perfect guide for me - “for I am Costanza - lord of the idiots”

https://youtu.be/gsSfV4RSZ_I

 

[Dropbear67]

On 30/12/2021 at 5:27 AM, Crunchynut said:

I agree the digital world is complicated!

 

I can’t answer your question specifically and hope that your purchases work well together. For others who may be asking the same, this is my solution :-

 

Apple Lossless streaming service > CD quality streaming using Airplay> iFi Zen Stream transport > USB connection > REM ADI-2 FS DAC > amp and speakers. The Zen Stream can output over coax or USB so I chose the interface designed for digital!

 

good luck all.

 

Why not Apple High Res -> REM ADI etc etc and cut out the airplay / transport?

 

 

[Jacobos007]

On 23/12/21 at 2:30 AM, doogie44 said:

Currently I stream QOBUZ via my Cambridge Audio CXN V1. It's alright. But I have been dreaming of streaming hi-res to a superior DAC.

 

Here's the situation: in an unrelenting effort to understand how to stream QOBUZ to a top flight stand-alone DAC (such as a Denafrips R2R type) I have run foul of certain computer knowledge issues or paid subscription issues. I'm suggesting the RPi4 because others have implied that this is an excellent solution to choosing the streaming source - music server - DAC chain. [I'm not even sure if I could use the CXN to stream QOBUZ to another DAC.]

 

Obviously I would then need the music server (software interface). That 'chain' is the full extent of my digital knowledge at present. I read about the different efforts of many audiophiles to organise this interface and my eyes glazed over...repeatedly. I used to have a Logitech Squeezebox years ago and I was satisfied; I naturally assumed that things/interfaces would progress with R & D from there (onwards and upwards). Wrong! They have become infinitely more complicated, expensive and opaque to me.

 

I never realised that being an audiophile in 2021 would mean a post-grad degree in computer programming. I don't wish to spend many thousands on the single box upmarket DACS since streaming is not my main listening.

 

What would the brains trust suggest? Note that:

 

1. I can't program code

2. I don't really understand digital architecture

3. I do appreciate fine music reproduction. Happy with QOBUZ hi-res

4. If I have to spend big to get a simple, plug & play, idiot-proof solution--I will

5. I can co-opt the services of an IT professional in my extended family (I have a sneaking suspicion this will be the only way for me to succeed)

 

Nevertheless, I think that there must be a digital answer in 2022 that won't cost the earth. I'm happy to consider any approach (see point 5). I won't whinge if there is no simple solution.

Hi @doogie44 - I am a newbie to the audiophile scene. I was looking into using the CXN V2 to stream high res music from Tidal but I was under the impression that the CXN V2 was a DAC as well (Wolfson WM8740). Just to understand your journey - am I correct in saying that you are looking for a BETTER / SUPERIOR DAC to the CXN V2?  I have not purchased the CXN V2 yet but want to ensure that I won’t need another DAC as well. 

[blakey72]

1 hour ago, Jacobos007 said:

Hi @doogie44 - I am a newbie to the audiophile scene. I was looking into using the CXN V2 to stream high res music from Tidal but I was under the impression that the CXN V2 was a DAC as well (Wolfson WM8740). Just to understand your journey - am I correct in saying that you are looking for a BETTER / SUPERIOR DAC to the CXN V2?  I have not purchased the CXN V2 yet but want to ensure that I won’t need another DAC as well. 

Yes the CXN V2 is a dac as well, a fairly decent dac. The CXN V1 that @doogie44 has won't stream Qobuz and doesn't support Roon but the V2 version does. I have the V1 on a second system but upgraded to this which is much superior IMO both features and sound quality. 

[doogie44]

Yes, there is nothing wrong with the DACs in the CXN models. I enjoyed them for years.

 

There's always something better too (upgradeitis looms) but this is not part of my journey now.

 

But, to me there is something that's so much more right in the stand-alone DACs based on the R2R topology (I was some time ago going to buy the CXN V2 but the DACs are similar inside). I had assumed that I knew what the sound of digital was--and I was not prepared to spend more money to have that 'known digital sound' done somewhat better. I was wrong. And it's not just me.

 

This exploration of R2R digital reproduction by Steve Deckert, chief engineer at Decware, really capyured my imagination:

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1587527488/23

 

This is also my journey towards the musical pleasures I find in analogue--but rarely in digital (at my previous price point and knowledge).

 

Just my 2c worth

 

 

[MattyW]

Yeah, I like Roon for its simplicity.... Also it's sound quality is as good if not better than my old preference: JRiver.

 

RoonOnNAS used on a nicely spec'd Synology DS1621+ is flawless. I upgraded to 24GB ECC RAM and a 400GB Synology SSD for read caching. Makes a massive improvement overall otherwise the Roon interface is unusable. 

 

Once you get your head around Core, Endpoint etc then it's all rather simple. I do prefer to run a dedicated media PC with DDC, OCXO clock and DAC attached as that gives me the flexibibility of great sound for video streaming rather than just music without switching inputs on my pre. In my second system I just use a Soundaware A1X which is excellent and betters the Raspberry Pi based end points I've tried in terms of sonics.

 

Yeah, a Roon lifetime license is $1k but put in perspective of the rest of the system..... It's not too bad really. 

[doogie44]

Currently my Denafrips Pontus 2 (run from the CXN) is approaching 300 hours of run-in. This sound is truly something special--especially to an old analogue lover like me. What have I been missing? 

 

"How long has this been going on..."??

[Nada]

24 minutes ago, doogie44 said:

"How long has this been going on..."??

 

Its good to hear you are enjoying your R2R DAC so much. A whole new world of musical pleasure and diversity has opened up for you.  Denafrips have done well lowering costs and bringing that R2R analogue lovers delight to the new buyers market.  Great R2R DACs have been around for ages but were pricey and rare.  Did you ever hear a Wadia  or Mark Levinson Burr Brown R2R based DAC or is this your first R2R?

[MattyW]

Yeah, love a good R2R DAC. Really enjoy my Musician Aquarius 

[doogie44]

I lost my R2R virginity with the Pontus 2. I suppose I was saving it for a special occasion that never arrived. I was heading for a life of digital celibacy--but there's no turning back now!

 

I have been so wrong about most of the digital I heard in recent decades--starting with the advent of digital CD players; not my sonic impressions (tonally unimpressed) or the musicality (sorely lacking compared with vinyl replay IMO) BUT the fact that I had never heard 'digital done right'. In my price category of middle-range goodies digital didn't float my boat. Thanks to Denafrips I have had a revelation...a 'burning bush experience on the way to Damascus'. High cost & high end digital made accessible to me.

 

Did I mention non-fatiguing and musical and hearing new things in almost every digital recording I am utterly familiar with?

 

I am also playing CDs on my AudioNote CD-2 player through my Pontus 2. Fantastic. 

 

That's the perceived magic value combination of cost-effective R2R.

 

Just my 2c worth.