MLXXX Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ittaku said: Still AAC, but now variable bitrate it would appear. I extracted just the audio and it worked out to an average bitrate of 128 as well, so the same overall but that would amount to significantly higher quality for peak complexity parts of the audio. I did not see it encode to opus in any of the videos I uploaded. For reference, here is the upscaled 4k version of my video: Hi Ittaku, I'm glad you've tried this as it provides a current guide as to what to expect when uploading to YouTube! I note that today's 4K upload of yours is only offered on YouTube at 4k in an mkv container with VP9 video and AAC audio. As you say, no Opus audio. (I'm attaching a screen dump of the choice of mkv versions as they appear using the 4K video downloader app. And also of the versions available on YouTube in an mp4 container, where the video codec is H264.) I can find no difference in the AAC audio between today's version of your video file in 4K YouTube resolution and either of its derived 1080p YouTube resolution versions. (I found I had to delay the audio in the mp4 container by 3184 samples at 48Khz.) [I got a null using Audacity when comparing the audio versions.] That suggests all three AAC streams are constant bitrate, or all three AAC streams are variable bitrate. I haven't investigated further to see which applies. I note that software does not always report such details accurately! So at this stage I myself am not prepared to say that these AAC streams are constant bitrate. Edited January 9, 2022 by MLXXX 1
Ittaku Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, MLXXX said: Hi Ittaku, I'm glad you've tried this as it provides a current guide as to what to expect when uploaded to YouTube! I note that today's 4K upload of yours is only offered on YouTube at 4k in an mkv container with VP9 video and AAC audio. As you say, no Opus audio. (I'm attaching a screen dump of the choice of mkv versions as they appear using the 4K video downloader app. And also of the versions available on YouTube in an mp4 container, where the video codec is H264.) I can find no difference in the AAC audio between today's version of your video file in 4K YouTube resolution and either of its derived 1080p YouTube resolution versions. (I found I had to delay the audio in the mp4 container by 3184 samples at 48Khz.) [I got a null using Audacity when comparing the audio versions.] That suggests all three AAC streams are constant bitrate, or all three AAC streams are variable bitrate. I haven't investigated further to see which applies. I note that software does not always report such details accurately! So at this stage I myself am not prepared to say that these AAC streams are constant bitrate. Very interesting. I used the same youtube ripper. I did not think to compare the two audio files, I was basing it on mediainfo but it makes sense that it was just a different container format that made it appear to be different, so the audio tops out at 128AAC even for a 4k source, though it may be different for premium youtube as suggested earlier. Also I assume you meant 44k - this time around I did the resampling myself and uploaded the audio as flac 44/24.
MLXXX Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, Ittaku said: Also I assume you meant 44k - this time around I did the resampling myself and uploaded the audio as flac 44/24. Oh I referred to 48kHz only because PowerDirector rendered the extracted audio to PCM at that sample rate. (I found it convenient to use PowerDirector. However I could have [perhaps should have] extracted the audio with something else and kept it at 44.1kHz.)
MLXXX Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, MLXXX said: [I got a null using Audacity when comparing the audio versions.] That suggests all three AAC streams are constant bitrate, or all three AAC streams are variable bitrate. I haven't investigated further to see which applies. I've now demuxed the mkv and mp4 containers to extract the AAC files only. They appear to be constant bitrate. When played with VLC media player the input bitrate displayed stays constant. Edited January 9, 2022 by MLXXX 1
Nada Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 Youtube Premium is meant to do 256kb/s audio. I dont actually know if thats true for me. How can I check?
Ittaku Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Nada said: Youtube Premium is meant to do 256kb/s audio. I dont actually know if thats true for me. How can I check? Find one of the free month or 3 month trial offers and sign up?
MLXXX Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 20 minutes ago, Nada said: Youtube Premium is meant to do 256kb/s audio. I dont actually know if thats true for me. How can I check? As Ittaku has suggested, why not sign up for a trial? I note this page will help with audio quality settings: https://support.google.com/youtubemusic/answer/9076559?hl=en#zippy=%2Caudio-quality-on-wi-fi As for how much of the content was uploaded at a sufficiently high bitrate in the first place, I don't know. YouTube recommend uploading at 384kbps AAC. See: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/1722171?hl=en#zippy=%2Cbitrate With YouTube on a pc you can get info by right clicking and selecting "stats for nerds". The info doesn't include the audio bitrate. You'd need some other player or tool to detect and display that. As a workaround, you could try downloading with 4K video downloader once you have a subscription for YouTube premium. I haven't tried this method of accessing YouTube premium myself. See https://www.4kdownload.com/howto/howto-download-youtube-premium-videos 1
Nada Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 Im actually running Premium Youtube but maybe not for long . I dont have the IT skills to actually verify its streaming 256kb.s audio as promoted. The downloading options Ive seen either just grab the standard bitrate or do suspect conversion eg to 360 mp3. In the meantime Foobar running foo_youtube sounds just as good as Youtube Premium.
MLXXX Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Nada said: The downloading options Ive seen Have you seen the 4K video downloader method I've just referred to? 1
Nada Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, MLXXX said: Have you seen the 4K video downloader method I've just referred to? Thanks for all your help. Yes I already went down that path but no joy. Im going to cancel Premium. For just the standard youtube bitrate Foobar running foo_youtube shows the VBR in real time down the bottom left. This verifies most youtube have OPUS 44.1 running at 120-180kb/s. With Foobar I can use all my usual DSPs so it seems to sound better then using a browser.
MLXXX Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) On 09/01/2022 at 3:02 PM, Nada said: Has anyone been able to capture/extract/save 256kb/s audio from some of the excellent youtube video live performances, using the youtube premium service and an app? Not so far with 4K video downloader, despite having a Pro licence, and despite logging on through 4K video downloader to my (trial) YouTube premium subscription. When I select the "Extract Audio" option in 4K video downloader, I see only "Normal Quality" and "Low Quality" audio offered for live and other general videos. So far the only "videos" I've been able to download with "High Quality" audio (256kbps AAC) using 4K video downloader have been those files listed in the "YouTube Music" section of YouTube premium that play as a fixed image, not as a moving video. All moving (or "true") videos I've checked so far offer only low and medium audio quality. Some true videos in the Premium section offer more than 128kbps but still not as much as 256kbps. For example, Bésame mucho, sung by tenor Juan Diego Flórez, https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ0U-Tl7ScA&list=PLUMhf5B5Yod3kBuqX3AZ8RJeTuWVpIswb , is offered with "Normal Quality" sound at 146kbps AAC, or 146kbps Opus. Edited January 10, 2022 by MLXXX 2 1
Nada Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 5 hours ago, MLXXX said: Some true videos in the Premium section offer more than 128kbps but still not as much as 256kbps. That's excellent information. Thanks for all your efforts.
GaryT Posted January 12, 2022 Posted January 12, 2022 I have premium and can also confirm many 4K videos have 250+ kbps audio streams and can sound pretty good.
MLXXX Posted January 12, 2022 Posted January 12, 2022 5 hours ago, GaryT said: I have premium and can also confirm many 4K videos have 250+ kbps audio streams and can sound pretty good. Are these moving videos or just a fixed image with audio? If true videos, can you give us links to a couple of examples?
davewantsmoore Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) On 06/01/2022 at 6:00 PM, aussievintage said: I agree, it's not too bad. I am just trying to put some real numbers and types to what it actually is. As much curiosity as anything else. Right click on the video and click "Stats for Nerds". This will show you which codec is active. ... and then you can look up the codec ID, somewhere like here: As for the bitrate.... they are all encoded with variable bitrates. Contrary to what people might think... bitrates this high on modern audio codecs like Opus and recent AAC.... are very close to transparent (eg. outperform 320kbps CBR MP3). The higest audio quality is Opus 160kbps. ---- I listen to quite a bit of stuff sourced from youtube (lives, covers, etc.) ... and while I don't have full fat uncompressed audio to compare them to.... I don't ever think the audio format is having much effect. Another way, if interested you can test... is look up an "audio only" version of a track you like (and have the lossless audio of) .... ie. the audio from the CD that someone has uploaded to youtube. Download it, and add the file into your audio player alongside your lossless copy. A vs B them, and see. I've actually never done this via youtube.... but have done plenty of times using my own lossy encoders (for things like MP3, AAC, Optus, etc.). Edited January 15, 2022 by davewantsmoore 1
davewantsmoore Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 Just now, davewantsmoore said: Right click on the video and click "Stats for Nerds". This will show you which codec is active. ... and then you can look up the codec ID Typically you should always see 251 (Opus 160)
davewantsmoore Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) On 09/01/2022 at 10:55 PM, Nada said: Youtube Premium is meant to do 256kb/s audio. I dont actually know if thats true for me. How can I check? It is AAC 256kbps (variable) for everyone. Edited January 15, 2022 by davewantsmoore
davewantsmoore Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 On 12/01/2022 at 11:45 PM, MLXXX said: Are these moving videos or just a fixed image with audio? If true videos, can you give us links to a couple of examples? Youtube ... (ie. not "Youtube Music) ... audio bitrate tops out at Optus 160kbps.
Nada Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: Another way, if interested you can test... is look up an "audio only" version of a track you like (and have the lossless audio of) .... ie. the audio from the CD that someone has uploaded to youtube. Download it, and add the file into your audio player alongside your lossless copy. A vs B them, and see. Yep. Spot on. I did that. Youtube Opus 160 sounded good until I compared it to 16/44.1. The CD quality had inner detail and was much better for me. I still like youtube for live concerts. Its like the modern equivalent of the old clandestine bootleg vinyls the sound guys recorder at gigs.
Toddyaxley Posted September 2, 2022 Posted September 2, 2022 Hi....hope you guys mind me butting in on the topic... I've been playing music/bands/electronic for over 30yrs..been through vinyl, cassette,cd,mini disc,MP3,etc.... To be honest the answer to why it will never sound like vinyl...wave form.. digital (saw tooth)is beautiful but flat..because it's got a beginning and a end..much like digital photos ...beautiful but flat..film has a ore,you can look around the object.....same applies for music... I've played on some of the biggest systems in Australia...JBL, Ev,spelter,funktion one,turbo..etc..up to 50k..then it's really noticable...the brain will work it out easier because if the beginning/end..saw tooth... Where vinyl/analogue (wave)no beginning..no end...it's just not possible to replicate digitally the frequency's that one doesn't hear only feels.... At the moment I play Denon sc5000......were there trying to push streaming etc....it's been squashed, replicated then squashed again and again......closer to the source one can get....isn't that what it's all about?or "trying to replicate"the source....which is impossible. Cheers
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