MSB + ARC + MBL + VTV + Paradigm + Artnovion

[Ittaku]

Went the MSO's performance of Beethoven's 9th last night from virtually my ideal seating location. Whew, what a tour de force, and I never tire of it. That was a fantastic rendition, and apart from one tense moment when the baritone's voice briefly got hoarse it was almost perfect. I was misty eyed towards the end. Today I've listened again to it at home, and it never ceases to amaze me how loud you have to actually play at home to recreate something close to the live experience.

[davm]

2 hours ago, Ittaku said:

Today I've listened again to it at home, and it never ceases to amaze me how loud you have to actually play at home to recreate something close to the live experience.

 

I'm not sure of your experience, but I find recordings do not come close to achieving the dynamic range you experience in the concert hall.

[Ittaku]

9 minutes ago, davm said:

 

I'm not sure of your experience, but I find recordings do not come close to achieving the dynamic range you experience in the concert hall.

Well that was my point. I believe someone did an analysis and you need 110dB of linear range to do so. Whilst I can get 110dB I'm pretty sure my system is quite non-linear by that stage, though I'm working on that too

[davm]

21 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Well that was my point. I believe someone did an analysis and you need 110dB of linear range to do so. Whilst I can get 110dB I'm pretty sure my system is quite non-linear by that stage, though I'm working on that too

 

I've read that 24 bit recordings have a theoretical dynamic range of 144dB and even 16 bits provide a maximum of 96dB.

 

So, in theory, a 24 bit recording should be able to incorporate the 110db range. But I doubt any recordings come close to this (or even 96db) in practice. Perhaps it's limitations with microphones, or the way recordings are mixed.

 

If it's microphones, I wonder if there could be a technique to extend dynamic range in a way that's similar to exposure stacking in digital photography. Sorry, getting a bit off topic in your thread...

[Ittaku]

3 minutes ago, davm said:

 

I've read that 24 bit recordings have a theoretical dynamic range of 144dB and even 16 bits provide a maximum of 96dB.

 

So, in theory, a 24 bit recording should be able to incorporate the 110db range. But I doubt any recordings come close to this (or even 96db) in practice. Perhaps it's limitations with microphones, or the way recordings are mixed.

 

If it's microphones, I wonder if there could be a technique to extend dynamic range in a way that's similar to exposure stacking in digital photography. Sorry, getting a bit off topic in your thread...

I wasn't talking about 110dB of dynamic range, as we don't even hear that at a concert - the noise floor is around 40dB in a concert hall (though of course we can hear things some way below the floor itself). What I was referring to was getting as loud as 110dB absolute volume max linearly with the recorded material.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Ittaku

[acg]

The room is as great an enemy for 110dB playback as the loudspeakers... although loudspeakers cause all kinds of problems at that spl.   When getting right into the music I'll likely have 105dB or so peaks, and I do it with a watt or two due to high sensitivity horns and narrow directivity which is pretty much the exact opposite of your MBL's (which I'd love to hear one day).  So many ways to skin the audio cat.

[andyr]

46 minutes ago, acg said:

and I do it with a watt or two due to high sensitivity horns and narrow directivity which is pretty much the exact opposite of your MBL's

 

Indeed the exact opposite ... given Con has 2000w of Class D power for each bass channel and 250w of lovely tube power for the mids & tweeters on each channel!  

 

[Ittaku]

My speakers are rated to produce 105dB each linearly, so I don't think 110 is out of the question, just slightly outside the linear range with both speakers combined. It's the distance from the speakers that make it hard to do in the listening position. The subs can easily do much more linearly; they top out at over 120dB in the audible range even without room supplementation.

[Nada]

On 02/07/2022 at 9:19 AM, Ittaku said:

it never ceases to amaze me how loud you have to actually play at home to recreate something close to the live experience.

 

[Nada]

Hearing impairment in orchestral musicians

 

Symphony orchestra musicians from The Royal Danish Theatre (15 females and 80 males) aged 22 to 64 years were audiologically examined to elucidate the presence and the frequency of noise-induced hearing loss among classical musicians. .

 

.......it was found the 58% of the musicians had a hearing impairment.

 

...........Furthermore, a significantly poorer hearing on the left ear was found at higher frequencies among the violinists.

 

...... It is concluded that symphonic musicians suffer from hearing impairment and that the impairment might be ascribed to symphonic music.

[Ittaku]

Thanks for that. It does not surprise me, but given I go to 10 concerts a year, and the max volume only occurs during transients and finales, it's insignificant compared to the menieres frying my hearing.

[Easy Gliders]

On 30/03/2022 at 7:05 PM, Ittaku said:

The final incarnation of my new listening room and system.

 

Listening room 11x6.5m with Artnovion room treatment and system in place on solidsteel racks.

 

MSB Select DAC.

 

ARC Reference 6SE preamp

 

Audio Research Reference 250SE power amps driving midbass and up on main speakers.

 

VTV Hypex NC2K (2000W) monoblocks driving main speaker woofers

 

MBL 101E MKII main speakers, sound better with covers off (sitting on ledge behind.)

 

Paradigm signature sub 2 x 2 (in diagonally opposite corners.)

 

PS Audio P20 power regenerator driving only DAC, preamp, and ARC power amps, and Wireworld Eclipse speaker cables visible.

 

Music 99% from PC with Roon + convolution DSP through the USB to ProISL interface to the DAC.

Occasionally use as a 2 channel home theatre setup as well.

Hi Con,

 

Which PC are you using to drive the MSB Pro USB-ISL modules? Ate you using the mega PC called Compulab or the mini PC intel NUC that you had posted photos?

I am using an Intel NUC11 to drive my Pro USB-ISL interface with the MSB Reference DAC. 

Thanks

[Ittaku]

2 minutes ago, Easy Gliders said:

Hi Con,

 

Which PC are you using to drive the MSB Pro USB-ISL modules? Ate you using the mega PC called Compulab or the mini PC intel NUC that you had posted photos?

I am using an Intel NUC11 to drive my Pro USB-ISL interface with the MSB Reference DAC. 

Thanks

The Intel nuc11.

[Easy Gliders]

1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

The Intel nuc11.

Thanks Con.

Are you using Roon Core or Roon ROCK on your NUC11?

Have you experimented with the various servers available in the market? Some of these servers are very expensive, but audiophiles still own them. I believe that with the Pro USB-ISL modules, USB servers would not make such a big difference. But I  have not made any comparison yet. What is your experience?

Desmond 

[Ittaku]

1 minute ago, Easy Gliders said:

Thanks Con.

Are you using Roon Core or Roon ROCK on your NUC11?

Have you experimented with the various servers available in the market? Some of these servers are very expensive, but audiophiles still own them. I believe that with the Pro USB-ISL modules, USB servers would not make such a big difference. But I  have not made any comparison yet. What is your experience?

Desmond 

Hi Desmond.

 

You may be disappointed to hear that I find everything from a raspberry pi to the most expensive Taiko server feeding my DAC sounded identical to me. Or maybe, you'll find the opposite reassurance as I did. I use a roon core on a linux Ubuntu LTS release. There are a lot of changes I don't hear that other people seem to hear so maybe I'm the wrong person to ask - this has always been the case even before I developed a hearing problem.

[Easy Gliders]

27 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Hi Desmond.

 

You may be disappointed to hear that I find everything from a raspberry pi to the most expensive Taiko server feeding my DAC sounded identical to me. Or maybe, you'll find the opposite reassurance as I did. I use a roon core on a linux Ubuntu LTS release. There are a lot of changes I don't hear that other people seem to hear so maybe I'm the wrong person to ask - this has always been the case even before I developed a hearing problem.

Hi Con,

It is refreshing to learn that you didn't hear any differences from servers up to the most expensive Taiko server!

Coincidently I also use a Roon core on Linux Ubuntu LTS! I will try to audition an Antipodes server in my system on the future to see whether I can hear any significant differences that is worth the money!

Thanks for sharing your experiences! 

P/S: Are you going to try the MSB Digital Director? 

Desmond

Edited July 4, 2022 by Easy Gliders

[Ittaku]

12 minutes ago, Easy Gliders said:

Hi Con,

It is refreshing to learn that you didn't hear any differences from servers up to the most expensive Taiko server!

Coincidently I also use a Roon core on Linux Ubuntu LTS! I will try to audition an Antipodes server in my system on the future to see whether I can hear any significant differences that is worth the money!

Thanks for sharing your experiences! 

P/S: Are you going to try the MSB Digital Director? 

Desmond

The digital director is a standalone component that does both what the ProISL USB interface does for all inputs, and does DSP outside of the main DAC (and presumably the oversampling outside as well.) Given I do all my DSP and upsampling on my PC and then go through USB to the ProISL interface, it means there is no scope for any improvement by using the director. The only thing that might benefit from me introducing it is better isolation when I'm watching movies which connects via coaxial - and seriously home theatre sounds just as good with a $100 DAC as it does with my DAC.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Ittaku

[POV]

2 hours ago, Ittaku said:

everything from a raspberry pi to the most expensive Taiko server feeding my DAC sounded identical to me. Or maybe, you'll find the opposite reassurance as I did. I use a roon core on a linux Ubuntu LTS release. There are a lot of changes I don't hear that other people seem to hear so maybe I'm the wrong person to ask - this has always been the case even before I developed a hearing problem.

 

This is consistent with my experience.  I ran with my main regular home PC as my Roon core for a good few years and only added a Nucleus + about 6 months ago.  I noticed no improvement in sound quality (but then I don't think any is promised by Roon).  The reasons for doing it relate more to energy efficiency, convenience, and stability.

 

BTW - absolutely love the styling of the room there Con.  The integration of your acoustic treatment to make it an integral part of the style is very cool indeed.

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by POV

[Ittaku]

The latest edition of Stereophile has an excellent article entitled "Measurement Beyond the Atomic Level" about one of the largest measurement facilities in the world located in a retired Nuclear Reactor facility which has a great discussion regarding measurements and acoustics, specifically with respect to room effects. Highly recommended reading.

[Antipodean Brad]

 

I love this thread and system and room.  But why is the cookie monster sitting so far off-axis?

[andyr]

2 hours ago, Antipodean Brad said:

 

I love this thread and system and room.  But why is the cookie monster sitting so far off-axis?

 

 

That's a new addition, AB!    (I haven't seen it before.)

 

Andy

 

[Ittaku]

It's been a while and I'm getting withdrawal symptoms, anyone up for a get together this Wednesday afternoon?

[todagt]

Yeh, why not if your up for reruns 

[Ittaku]

1 hour ago, todagt said:

Yeh, why not if your up for reruns 

Sure, provided I get a critical mass, I'm happy to have reruns.

[Ittaku]

By the way this is an open invitation to anyone in Melbourne on this Wednesday afternoon.