ATC SCM40 Speakers

[audiohifiaudio]

I had a pair of  ATC SCM20 anniversary black in colour and they had a midrange to die for. But I didn't get the same experience with the SCM 40MK1 But maybe the mk2 may be different.

[JohnL]

1 hour ago, needlerunner said:

I always thought that the big thing with this speaker was...the mid range?

It's the biggest thing with all ATC speakers using it...........IMHO 

 

1 hour ago, audiohifiaudio said:

So the SCM 40 v2 are the way to go?  Can one just change the tweeter or is there more to it?

 

Definitely more to it.

If I had $5K to spend on ATC's I would go for these.

 

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hobart-cbd/speakers/atc-scm19a/1311532805

 

Can't beat active.........once again just IMHO 

Edited September 4, 2023 by JohnL

[audiohifiaudio]

21 hours ago, JohnL said:

It's the biggest thing with all ATC speakers using it...........IMHO 

 

 

Definitely more to it.

If I had $5K to spend on ATC's I would go for these.

 

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hobart-cbd/speakers/atc-scm19a/1311532805

 

Can't beat active.........once again just IMHO 

I know they say active is the way too go but because I like swapping things I prefer non active. 

[murrmax]

Quote

I was so looking forward to these speakers as I love uk English speakers. It sounded harsh and the tweeter made things sound fake. The mid was ok and I prefer ported bass.   It had some good things ok but  not my cup of tea. Maybe the new ones might be a winner.  That's why I asked if any one has compared the two.

 

They're very revealing of upstream components that may well have been the problem..  Their midrange dome is unquestionably one of the finest midranges .. they used SEAs tweeters previously before their own...which are also very good and well regarded. Here's some info on the midrange driver.  The 3 ways using this middriver are a significant step up and objectively better than their 2 ways especially in the midrange due to the mid-dome however they all have a similar presentation and sound by design

The ATC 75-150S by Jeff Bagby.pdf

[needlerunner]

I'm thinking of sticking to ported (front) speakers too.

Also thinking that ATC and PMC are not too dissimilar.

Probably both have that distinct BBC sound.

 

My thinking now, is to go into something with a different sound signiture. Not sure what

 But that's half the fun isn't it.

Will have to do the rounds and see what is out there. Plus my bank balance is not as healthy as once was. So now probably looking for something in the $6k range.

 

[audiohifiaudio]

20 hours ago, murrmax said:

 

They're very revealing of upstream components that may well have been the problem..  Their midrange dome is unquestionably one of the finest midranges .. they used SEAs tweeters previously before their own...which are also very good and well regarded. Here's some info on the midrange driver.  The 3 ways using this middriver are a significant step up and objectively better than their 2 ways especially in the midrange due to the mid-dome however they all have a similar presentation and sound by design

The ATC 75-150S by Jeff Bagby.pdf 1.62 MB · 1 download

There's revealing and there's too much of it. At the end of the day you could go full colour system all valve may work but the speakers are super hungry so you would need a big back pocket lol.

[audiohifiaudio]

6 hours ago, needlerunner said:

I'm thinking of sticking to ported (front) speakers too.

Also thinking that ATC and PMC are not too dissimilar.

Probably both have that distinct BBC sound.

 

My thinking now, is to go into something with a different sound signiture. Not sure what

 But that's half the fun isn't it.

Will have to do the rounds and see what is out there. Plus my bank balance is not as healthy as once was. So now probably looking for something in the $6k range.

 

Maybe your on to something..

[needlerunner]

1 hour ago, audiohifiaudio said:

Maybe your on to something..

I am.

 

Just pulled the trigger on a pair of Focal Aria 936 K2 Limited Edition.

 

Unfortunately. Not available for a listen. And l said l would not buy another pair of speakers unheard. Yeh right! But too good to pass up. But reviews seem to indicate that they are what l have been looking for.

 

Addicted to Audio have them discounted over $3k off. Audiophile speakers out the door for $5k. Worth the risk at that price.

 

Actually no risk. Heard some Focal's several years ago...and loved them. But back them l couldn't afford them. Might be bargain of the year.

[audiohifiaudio]

1 hour ago, needlerunner said:

I am.

 

Just pulled the trigger on a pair of Focal Aria 936 K2 Limited Edition.

 

Unfortunately. Not available for a listen. And l said l would not buy another pair of speakers unheard. Yeh right! But too good to pass up. But reviews seem to indicate that they are what l have been looking for.

 

Addicted to Audio have them discounted over $3k off. Audiophile speakers out the door for $5k. Worth the risk at that price.

 

Actually no risk. Heard some Focal's several years ago...and loved them. But back them l couldn't afford them. Might be bargain of the year.

I wish you the best. of  luck and I hope they will blow your socks off.

[TerryO]

On 5/9/2023 at 10:35 PM, murrmax said:

 

They're very revealing of upstream components that may well have been the problem.. 

 

Their midrange dome is unquestionably one of the finest midranges .. they used SEAs tweeters previously before their own...which are also very good and well regarded. Here's some info on the midrange driver.  The 3 ways using this middriver are a significant step up and objectively better than their 2 ways especially in the midrange due to the mid-dome however they all have a similar presentation and sound by design

The ATC 75-150S by Jeff Bagby.pdf 1.62 MB · 1 download

@audiohifiaudio, basically what Murrmax said, ATC’s even the later version with the new in-house tweeter are very revealing of the signal they receive and I would say that is even more the case with the passive versions. Plus it is no secret that passive ATC’s like large amounts of very good quality amplification to get near to sounding their best or close to the active versions.

 

Like others have mentioned previously on many occasions the actives sound truly excellent and are hard to beat, especially bang for dollar, given the rather small amount extra in RRP over the passives.
 

As for actives limiting people’s ability to change components, if anything, what they do is simplify the system and stop the need to spend big dollars on very good amplification to try, and I do mean try, to find an amp that rivals and sounds as good as the inbuilt ATC amplifiers.

 

Then there is the often time consuming and expensive speaker cable shuffle that one usually has to go through repeatedly to get true synergy between amplification, speaker cables and the speakers.

 

What ATC actives do, apart from deliver a stunning cohesive sound quality, is free up the big chunk of money you save on external amplification to spend on upgrading the front end which is where either the true magic starts or the disappointment begins. 
 

Cheers,

Terry

Edited September 6, 2023 by TerryO

[murrmax]

Yes high quality SS amplification or as you say go active. Actives are superior imho. Less is always more.. 

[needlerunner]

On 07/09/2023 at 4:01 AM, TerryO said:

@audiohifiaudio, basically what Murrmax said, ATC’s even the later version with the new in-house tweeter are very revealing of the signal they receive and I would say that is even more the case with the passive versions. Plus it is no secret that passive ATC’s like large amounts of very good quality amplification to get near to sounding their best or close to the active versions.

 

Like others have mentioned previously on many occasions the actives sound truly excellent and are hard to beat, especially bang for dollar, given the rather small amount extra in RRP over the passives.
 

As for actives limiting people’s ability to change components, if anything, what they do is simplify the system and stop the need to spend big dollars on very good amplification to try, and I do mean try, to find an amp that rivals and sounds as good as the inbuilt ATC amplifiers.

 

Then there is the often time consuming and expensive speaker cable shuffle that one usually has to go through repeatedly to get true synergy between amplification, speaker cables and the speakers.

 

What ATC actives do, apart from deliver a stunning cohesive sound quality, is free up the big chunk of money you save on external amplification to spend on upgrading the front end which is where either the true magic starts or the disappointment begins. 
 

Cheers,

Terry

Active speakers and a quality streamer.

Makes good sense Terry and is probably the way of the future.

If l was starting from scratch, or carrying out a complete upgrade, it is probably the way l would go. 

Did a complete upgrade four and a bit years ago. Now. Hopefully these new speakers are the final link in the puzzle and that I'm now done. 

Anyway. Got way too many CDs and records. And l do love that deep physical connection that you get with both these mediums.

Think I'm done now. 

Just sit back now and enjoy the music.

Nice discussion.

Ken.

[THOMO]

People considering the ATC SCM 40 or PMC three ways might want to consider this kit design by Troels Gravesen.The SBA 7MD.It is using premium grade SB Acoustic Sartori drivers including a 60MM soft dome midrange and a carbon fibre Textreme transmission line loaded  woofer.The box design is relatively compact and easy to build and the measurements look excellent.

Parts cost is about $3500 plus cabinet costs.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj58JSpoJyBAxUkTGwGHQdMDCgQFnoECBAQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.troelsgravesen.dk%2FSBA-7MD.htm&usg=AOvVaw148fvAIGxbgsoxa_gJAxVa&opi=89978449

 

He also discusses the way that dome midranges sound different to cones even though they may measure the same.My guess is that is due to their much lower moving mass -say 2 grams compared to more like 10 grams for a dedicated 4 inch cone midrange.

Edited September 9, 2023 by THOMO

[audiohifiaudio]

On 7/9/2023 at 6:01 AM, TerryO said:

@audiohifiaudio, basically what Murrmax said, ATC’s even the later version with the new in-house tweeter are very revealing of the signal they receive and I would say that is even more the case with the passive versions. Plus it is no secret that passive ATC’s like large amounts of very good quality amplification to get near to sounding their best or close to the active versions.

 

Like others have mentioned previously on many occasions the actives sound truly excellent and are hard to beat, especially bang for dollar, given the rather small amount extra in RRP over the passives.
 

As for actives limiting people’s ability to change components, if anything, what they do is simplify the system and stop the need to spend big dollars on very good amplification to try, and I do mean try, to find an amp that rivals and sounds as good as the inbuilt ATC amplifiers.

 

Then there is the often time consuming and expensive speaker cable shuffle that one usually has to go through repeatedly to get true synergy between amplification, speaker cables and the speakers.

 

What ATC actives do, apart from deliver a stunning cohesive sound quality, is free up the big chunk of money you save on external amplification to spend on upgrading the front end which is where either the true magic starts or the disappointment begins. 
 

Cheers,

Terry

Sounds like active is the way to go if buying ATC speakers.

[Jaba]

It is more cost effective to go active for various reasons, eliminating trial and error being one of them.

Passive ATC’s would have decent crossovers so if matched with solid amp would not be inferior to active setup.

[gat474]

For a time I had both passive and active SCM40 mk2’s. I also had an ATC C1 pre for the actives and an ATC SIA150 integrated for the passives. About as level a playing field as I could get.

I spent quite a few hours listening to both combos, regardless of what I played the active set up was always better than the passive version in every respect.

Having said that, I’d be more than happy with the passive version if I didn’t have the active set up to compare to.

 

[audiohifiaudio]

for the passive ATC not for me and I don't like active so I will leave it at that. But Ive only listen to the ATC 40 the old version. But like I said the ATC 20 anniversary I had where amazing warm sound and passive.

Edited September 13, 2023 by audiohifiaudio

[Jaba]

15 hours ago, gat474 said:

For a time I had both passive and active SCM40 mk2’s. I also had an ATC C1 pre for the actives and an ATC SIA150 integrated for the passives. About as level a playing field as I could get.

I spent quite a few hours listening to both combos, regardless of what I played the active set up was always better than the passive version in every respect.

Having said that, I’d be more than happy with the passive version if I didn’t have the active set up to compare to.

 

That’s very insightful as not many of us would get an opportunity to do such comparisons. I would however question if indeed ATC amplification is the most optimal for ATC speakers. I am driving mine with Anthem A2 and also have tried much more expensive Bryston with no noticeable difference (must be Canadian characteristics). I am open to experimenting with alternative amplifiers so if anyone has some suggestions please let me know.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Jaba

[gat474]

1 hour ago, Jaba said:

That’s very insightful as not many of us would get an opportunity to do such comparisons. I would however question if indeed ATC amplification is the most optimal for ATC speakers. I am driving mine with Anthem A2 and also have tried much more expensive Bryston with no noticeable difference (must be Canadian characteristics). I am open to experimenting with alternative amplifiers so if anyone has some suggestions please let me know.

That’s a very good question. I’ve used quite a few amps and one or two preamps with my 40’s. The amps varied from a Primare A32 250 wpc, ME240, ME850 and ME1500, plus a big dollar Moon but don’t recall the model. Some were mine but mostly borrowed.

None of them sounded as good as the active version. Compared against each other, the ATC SIA150 was equal to any of the others sound quality wise but didn’t have as much outright power as the bigger ones like the Primare, and ME850 and 1500. Having said that the ME240 at 90wpc had heaps of grunt and was equal in volume/authority to the big Primare.

I still have an ATC SIA150 which I occasionally power a pair of SCM19’s with. The combo sounds very nice and in isolation would be more than a keeper combo.

[Cafad]

On 14/09/2023 at 9:01 AM, Jaba said:

That’s very insightful as not many of us would get an opportunity to do such comparisons. I would however question if indeed ATC amplification is the most optimal for ATC speakers. I am driving mine with Anthem A2 and also have tried much more expensive Bryston with no noticeable difference (must be Canadian characteristics). I am open to experimenting with alternative amplifiers so if anyone has some suggestions please let me know.

If you are interested in reading a few comments about quite a few amps check out my posts in the "ATC owners and discussion" thread.  The mods rolled my SCM-40 thread into the general ATC owners thread, you'll have to sort through a few posts but the ones belonging to my old thread start on page 43.  

[Toeknee]

Hey guys, Tony here.

A couple of years ago I posted on here and I feel the need give an update.

So back then I owned a pair Mk1 40's and auditioned the new 40's and 50's at sonic purity and declared that I couldn't hear enough difference/improvement to pull the trigger.

Well not long after that I found a pair of Mk2 40's (Passive, 2020 build) on the internet and snapped them up for five and a half. 

I put my isoacoustics gaia2's on the feet straight away and placed them alongside my mk1's (which were on spikes). I did quite a few hours of A/B testing over a few weeks and I really got a good comparison exercise. I had to conclude at the end that the Mk2's were slightly better in absolute detail, but having said that I don't know if it was the gaia2's or just the speakers themselves that made the difference. The mk1's did have many more hours on them.

Oh, and I should say the MK1's do have the better timber and finish.

Anyway, I still stand by what I said regarding the sealed boxes (40's) sounding better than the ported boxes (50's). The 40's are tighter sounding in the lower frequencies.

For the record I feed mine with a Michi P5/S5 combo (working approx 650-700W per ch) and I also run a SVS2000 SB for the ground shaking sessions.

 

Oh, and while I'm here I'd like to add that I really enjoyed the Hifi show at the Pullman on the weekend. I did 7hrs of listening and 2-3 trips into every room. When I got home I immediately played the exact same songs I had been listening to and at similar volumes. Nothing I heard on that day sounded better than our ATC's, some equal but nothing better (and 80-90% of them were inferior). And that's saying something because there were plenty of serious, expensive systems in there.

Love what you have guys, we own the best bargains in Hifi. Ridiculous.  

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Toeknee

[needlerunner]

Hi Tony,

Maybe you could reverse and swap over the spikes/Gaia's. As in, put the Gaia's on the Mk 1 and the spikes on the MK2. I for one would be interested in that comparison.

Cheers,

Ken

[Toeknee]

1 hour ago, needlerunner said:

Hi Tony,

Maybe you could reverse and swap over the spikes/Gaia's. As in, put the Gaia's on the Mk 1 and the spikes on the MK2. I for one would be interested in that comparison.

Cheers,

Ken

Hey Ken, too late I sold the Mk1’s..

I wanted to but it would have been a bit of mucking around.

 

[needlerunner]

On 25/10/2023 at 10:35 AM, Toeknee said:

Hey Ken, too late I sold the Mk1’s..

I wanted to but it would have been a bit of mucking around.

 

All good Tony. One would think that the Mk2s would be a better proposition anyway. Was pretty keen on these speakers myself. That close...But ended up getting a pair of Focal Aria K2 936. Loving them.

[Ryehifi]

Have you thought of moving up the ladder of PMC.? I’ve sold my Sonus Faber Olympicas and exited to try out PMC  24i or higher up depending on budget.

 

Cam