Willsenton R-800i Owners & Discussion Thread

[ChMaiwald]

Hi there, after digging a bit into the dedicated R8 thread I thought it´s worth starting one about the R-800i. People have a lot of fun with the R8 and talk about mods, improvements, tube rolling and other things and since I do have a lot of fun with the R-800i I´d be happy to start a similar exchange.

 

I bought the R-800i about half a year ago, it´s my first tube amp and I´m very happy with it. My setup is quite straightforward, I´m listening to CDs almost exclusively (an old Rotel), other input comes from a cheap Bluetooth receiver and from our projector (no TV here. It´s a tangent really, but worth pointing out that for stereo home cinema I find the sound perfectly sufficient.). Speakers are Klipsch Cornwall IVs. There are cables.

 

After rolling tubes a bit I have come to a combination that sounds very sweet to me. Not perfect (more about that later), but great enough to make me appreciate the music I like on another level. Voices float, seperation and stage is great.

 

The tube setup for now is:

12AX7 – Telefunken ECC83 (found some used with good values). The current production Mullard 12AX7 come really close at a fraction of the price.

6SN7 – cheap russian Foton 6H8C NOS. These to me sound really close to the Sylvania 6SN7 GTBs I own and right now don´t see the point in investing more on these.

5U4G – Svetlana coke bottle NOS. This position shouldn´t affect the sound much and I don´t think it does. I´m telling myself it sounds a bit rounder, but I´d have to make a blind test with the stock tube.

300B – Elrog 300B. After reading a bit about all 300Bs I came to the conclusion to invest here. It´s still breaking in and changed its sound significantly over the last couple of listening hours, it was very boomy at the beginning but went more linear after a few hours. I´ll wait with an evaluation. And for that I think I´ll have to put the stock tubes back in to really be able to name the difference.

805 – Cossor. Nicer, rounder sound than the stock tubes (which are PSVane Hifi I think.)

 

What bugs me a bit is a lacking low end and warmth as well as a bit overpronounced treble. I know the Cornwalls are not known for being the warmest sounding speakers but I´m suprised I find it lacking in combination with the R-800i. I have tried a number of tube combinations but none really solved this problem. Unfortunately I have no reference for what I can expect but when a friend recently showed me his setup (old Marantz amp with IMF TLS80 speakers – not his in this video) I was hearing some of the low end and warmth I´d be happy to have myself. Since I can´t treat the room and personally have no knowledge regarding soldering or othe modding I´m thinking about an EQ. Funnily some modern, loud and compressed albums bring out some of the sonics I´d be happy to hear more often. Having said all that I´m really happy with both amp and speakers, it´s just a matter of getting most out of them. It´s there, I´m sure about that.

Did anyone else have that experience or can comment on how the R-800i compares soundwise to other amps?

 

That´s where I´m at at the moment. I´d also be happy to hear your experiences with this neat amp.

 

ps: I couldn´t start this thread in the „Owners Discussion Threads“ subforum, so whoever wants to move it over there – go ahead.

[muon*]

I'd try NOS Mullard 12ax7's instead of the Tele's

 

Maybe there are some better choices in 805's if you want warmth. Are the COSSOR tubes not made by PSVANE like the stock tubes?

 

@xlr8or might be able to guide you to abetter tube combo for what you want.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by muon*

[ChMaiwald]

Those Mullards are quite expensive. I might look into them if I ever come across one for a reasonable price. I just invested in PSVane Acme 805s, I´ll also see what that will change. Also PSVane Treasure CV181-T MkII are on their way, which are supposed to give more warmth. Can´t wait to get these.

 

Thanks for the recommendations, I´m looking forward to hearing more.

 

EQ or a sub are options if I find I reach a certain limit what to get out of the amp.

 

[xlr8or]

I'm assuming the 12AX7 is the input tube. If that's the case then what's been described in terms of lacking bottom end and warmth is definitely related to the Telefunken 'house' sound. I would highly recommend using an Amperex Holland made mC2 17mm long plate 45-degree foil getter tube from 1956 instead.

 

Can you confirm if you have the 230v version or other?

Edited September 16, 2022 by xlr8or

[ChMaiwald]

It‘s the 230V version, yes.

[ChMaiwald]

One more thing, and this may be a bit silly:

The VU meter hardly shows any reaction when I‘m playing music. When I turn it up loud the needle is moving a bit, but it‘s far from reaching 1/4. I do not have to turn the volume up much since the speakers are very sensitive (102db), so it‘s likely to be normal. But I would like to be sure, you know, right now having the VU meter is pretty pointless.

[muon*]

Do you have a pic of the Foton 6H8C you are using?

[xlr8or]

2 hours ago, ChMaiwald said:

One more thing, and this may be a bit silly:

The VU meter hardly shows any reaction when I‘m playing music. When I turn it up loud the needle is moving a bit, but it‘s far from reaching 1/4. I do not have to turn the volume up much since the speakers are very sensitive (102db), so it‘s likely to be normal. But I would like to be sure, you know, right now having the VU meter is pretty pointless.

 

I assume this is not 12AX7 related, right? The Tele is strong and not the culprit. You can adjust the needle on those meters, but getting to those screws inside is a real PITA.

[ChMaiwald]

6 hours ago, muon* said:

Do you have a pic of the Foton 6H8C you are using?

 

(from before I put them in)

[ChMaiwald]

4 hours ago, xlr8or said:

 

I assume this is not 12AX7 related, right? The Tele is strong and not the culprit. You can adjust the needle on those meters, but getting to those screws inside is a real PITA.

It‘s always been like that, regardless of which tubes I‘m using. 
If I ever have anything done inside I might have the needles adjusted. Thanks for the information!

[muon*]

4 minutes ago, ChMaiwald said:

 

(from before I put them in)

OK thanks.

[ChMaiwald]

Short update: Replaced the used Telefunken ECC83 with another used Telefunken ECC83. The first I bought blindly, no test or values whatsoever, the second one has great values for being used. And – wow. I was very pleased with the old one but now the sound is so fundamentally richer, rounder with less pronounced highs – it´s all I wanted. And I´m hoping these are burnt in and the sound won´t change.

Call me happy.

[7502dan]

There are Telefunken and Telefunken 12ax7s. The only one for me is the long smooth plate (not the ribed plate)

[Guest crankit]

Looking for tone?

Try French Mazda ECC83, they are all over it

[Candan]

Hi guys,

 

I currently own the R8 (well at the shop getting repaired) and am thinking about stepping up to the R-800i, as part of my journey.

 

I'm driving Focal Kanta 3 speakers, and thanks to reasonably high sensitivity, they sound great with the R8.

 

The rules say I should get the 845 version because my speakers are over 90 dB. They're 91 dB.  But I'm a bit concerned that due to the lower wattage, I won't notice a significant enough difference vs the R8.  But with the additional wattage on the 805 version, I'll miss out somewhere else if I went with that.

 

Any pointers?  Please and thanks! 

[muon*]

They will sound different., as 845 tube does not sound like a KT88 or EL34, and you also have those 300B's driving the 845's so you have the 300B character in there also.

[Candan]

15 hours ago, muon* said:

They will sound different., as 845 tube does not sound like a KT88 or EL34, and you also have those 300B's driving the 845's so you have the 300B character in there also.

Thanks, so recommended wiser to go with 845 and not 805 with my speakers?

[muon*]

11 hours ago, Candan said:

Thanks, so recommended wiser to go with 845 and not 805 with my speakers?

To be honest with all the issues people have had with the R8, I couldn't recommend an amp under that brand name.

[xlr8or]

12 minutes ago, muon* said:

To be honest with all the issues people have had with the R8, I couldn't recommend an amp under that brand name.

 

I agree. I would be looking elsewhere.

 

Edit: And just adding, 845's and 805's generate a heck lot more heat than EL34's and KT88's. If those tubes go you're highly likely to take out a transformer.

Edited November 26, 2022 by xlr8or

[muon*]

I guess one thing going for the R-800i is it is designed for one output tube type only (hopefully done well), so doesn't have the marketing features like switching between different tube types and UL and Triode OP.

 

Still, for what It's worth as an onlooker and not owning any Willsenton amps, I'm not confident in their design and QC.

[xlr8or]

Here is a photo of the internal circuit. My understanding is that the same circuit design is employed for both the 845 and 805 albeit some tweaking required for the grid voltage, plate resistance and mutual conductance adjustments. Not much P2P seen. Also, like in the R8 there are a few switches based underneath. If I were to opt for one to go for it would be the 805 over the 845. It has a much sweeter sound compared to the 845 although less power output.

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by xlr8or

[ChMaiwald]

Somehow I have to take the effort and either get someone else´s tube amp over or bring mine over to that person. That thing is bloody heavy, but somehow I have to get to compare it with other gear. I have owned the R-800i (805) for abouth eight months and I´m happy with it. Really happy. That´s all I can say. And regarding the build quality: it just works and I have not heard of anyone having problems with this model. I´d recommend getting it.

[ChMaiwald]

Just in case this may be useful for anyone, here´s a scan of the manual:

 

Willsenton R-800i manual scan

 

It´s sufficient for setting it up but far from in-depth.

[Karma Chameleon]

Hi All,

I first had the R800i 805 and loved it.

Then I got the R800i 211 and found it amazing.

Lot of tube rolling. The usual and at the end loved the Melz on the 6SL7 and the Mazda Silver plate on the 12AX7 stage. The 300B is Tronal.

 

Then I got the GE 838, which was wonderful and sounded that much better. Better dynamic, etc.

I also got the GE and RCA 211. Both again  utterly wonderful. Similarly the sound is that much more dynamic, wider soundstage and less noise....

 

I next biamped the two amp to the Tannoy Canterbury, the 211 to the tweeter and the 838 to the woofer. All was wonderful, balancing the sound is a bit of a drag....But then the NOS tubes began to act up (838 and the 211). One of the 838 started to flutter a lot, similarly both the 211 flutters in some difficult orchestral pieces.....So the short of this is that the stock tubes are back in for the power tube, and all is well.

 

Possibly the NOS (Which was pricy) is not electrically suitable.....

[xlr8or]

15 hours ago, Karma Chameleon said:

Hi All,

I first had the R800i 805 and loved it.

Then I got the R800i 211 and found it amazing.

Lot of tube rolling. The usual and at the end loved the Melz on the 6SL7 and the Mazda Silver plate on the 12AX7 stage. The 300B is Tronal.

 

Then I got the GE 838, which was wonderful and sounded that much better. Better dynamic, etc.

I also got the GE and RCA 211. Both again  utterly wonderful. Similarly the sound is that much more dynamic, wider soundstage and less noise....

 

I next biamped the two amp to the Tannoy Canterbury, the 211 to the tweeter and the 838 to the woofer. All was wonderful, balancing the sound is a bit of a drag....But then the NOS tubes began to act up (838 and the 211). One of the 838 started to flutter a lot, similarly both the 211 flutters in some difficult orchestral pieces.....So the short of this is that the stock tubes are back in for the power tube, and all is well.

 

Possibly the NOS (Which was pricy) is not electrically suitable.....

 

Thanks for sharing your journey so far with owning these 2 Willsenton amps. They appear to be enjoyable to own cycling through 805, 211 and 838 power tubes. Following on from the R8 thread, the circuitry would be worth validating with the likes of someone such as @SkunkieDesigns. I'm sure if Stephe had the opportunity to review these amps on the bench she would be able to chime in and share some excellent tips for improving the circuit design and circuitry components.

 

I can speak from first hand experience as I own many tube amps, including 211 and 845 amps, vintage tubes just won't fail like that. If anything new production tubes would be more in line with the expectation of failing prematurely compared to vintage ones. You may want to have the amps checked over by a competent technician and also share some photos of the internals here to be 100% sure all is proper with the voltages. In particular, it be worth checking the B+ going to those transmission tubes, including the initial spike in voltage coming from the PT secondaries through the power filtration caps and audio choke when initially powering each unit on. I have a feeling that from what has been shared some surge in voltage is apparent.