Is a lossless CD rip as good as playing the CD?

[davewantsmoore]

2 hours ago, POV said:

The classic example that keeps getting cited as example (Elton John Yellow Brick Road) has multiple versions on Qobuz and not one of them could readily be traced to any of the versions listed on the Dr Loudness website.

Hmm... I see 3 versions on Qobuz, which are just 3 different instances of the 2014 mastering (which is on the dr database)   <shrug>

[georgehifi]

3 hours ago, POV said:

Once again, with this unsubstantiated, unsupported claim.  You say ‘most likely’ but you appear to have no way of knowing this and despite several previous requests you are yet to produce anything that resembles evidence.

 

Common sense will tell you that the streaming companies would use the easiest one they can order from the supplier, which will be the latest (and usually compressed issues), not the very hard to get used and expensive earliest releases, now many commanding big dollars used, because they know they'll get it, unlike those that don't. 

Just click on the dynamic range data base version to find the cat no, or bar code no. then see if your streaming company will give you the same.

 

Cheers George

Edited February 4, 2023 by georgehifi

[Guest]

1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

Hmm... I see 3 versions on Qobuz, which are just 3 different instances of the 2014 mastering (which is on the dr database)   <shrug>

 

Yes correct, but the 2014 remaster that appears on Dr Loudness is a lossy download.  The 40th Anniversery edition looks like it wasn't released by the label in 2014, despite being marked in Qobuz as 2014 and you cannot compare catalogue number or similar in the way you can with CD's.  And of course, all of this assumes that the data on Dr Loudness is even accurate to begin with!  So my point really is that it's held up as the shinning example yet it's not really possible to fully and conclusively trace provinence using available information.  That's why I've repeatedly asked how he knows that what he is saying is accurate, and I think the answer is that he doesn't.

 

I'm not saying it's not something people should think about, but it's quite humorous to me that people that advocate listening, and comparing for ones self on all equipment things wouldn't apply the same thinking to this rather than blindly trusting some data on a website!  Is there someone here who has done some specific comparisons between versions from streaming services with provinence fully traced and posted about their experiences?

 

 

9 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

 

Common sense will tell you that the streaming companies would use the easiest they can order from the supplier, which will be the latest (and usually compressed issues), not the very hard to get used and expensive earliest releases. 

Just click on the dynamic range data base version to find the cat no, or bar code no. then see if your streaming company will give you the same.

 

Cheers George

 

Wait a second.  Do you think that streaming services use CD's as their source??

Edited February 4, 2023 by POV

[georgehifi]

4 minutes ago, POV said:

Wait a second.  Do you think that streaming services use CD's as their source??

 

The issue!!  not the cd itself

Edited February 4, 2023 by georgehifi

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

 

The issue!!  not the cd itself

 

Ok, so specifically what does the issue number refer to? Is this directly traceable back to studio masters? Seriously I'm trying to understand, so I can email Qobuz and try to get some answers (they've always responded to every single email I've sent them asking questions).  It would be great to get some facts rather than conjecture.

 

Also, where do I find issue number on Dr Loudness, is that the same as catalog number or different (I can't see issue number anywhere)?

 

Edit: Supplementary question, how do you know that it's easier to source particular versions from the supplier, or is this another 'common sense' thing that you consider obvious, but don't know for sure?  When you say earlier and harder to get  releases you are talking about CDs are you not?  Or are you familiar with commercial availability of masters?  Again I'm curious how you know?

Edited February 4, 2023 by POV

[bob_m_54]

Why are we still banging on about streaming services????????

[Guest]

Just now, bob_m_54 said:

Why are we still banging on about streaming services????????

 

Good question, just that George started with his same claims regarding streaming services being lower quality and I thought maybe after some time he'd be willing to have a rational discussion and educate us all in a civil way.

[bob_m_54]

Just now, POV said:

 

Good question, just that George started with his same claims regarding streaming services being lower quality and I thought maybe after some time he'd be willing to have a rational discussion and educate us all in a civil way.

You should live so long....

[rantan]

5 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said:

Why are we still banging on about streaming services????????

 

I have NFI.

They are as boring as a Kale Milkshake or a Tumeric Latte.

[Guest]

Just now, rantan said:

 

I have NFI.

They are as boring as a Kale Milkshake or a Tumeric Latte.

 

Ouch...I'm just seeking to understand.  Apologies if it's boring you but please feel free to ignore!

[rantan]

Just now, POV said:

Apologies if it's boring you but please feel free to ignore!

 

My apologies. it was meant as humour and not to offend.

[bob_m_54]

15 minutes ago, POV said:

 

Ouch...I'm just seeking to understand.  Apologies if it's boring you but please feel free to ignore!

Please feel free to read the topic heading...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, bob_m_54 said:

Please feel free to read the topic heading...

 

26 pages into a discussion that was answered on page 1 and is in the great debate section.  I think I can take some off topic liberty here!

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, georgehifi said:

Common sense will tell you that the streaming companies would use the easiest one they can order from the supplier, which will be the latest (and usually compressed issues), not the very hard to get used and expensive earliest releases

Not quite how it works.

Few entities have the right to offer the recording(s) for streaming.   

 

1 hour ago, georgehifi said:

now many commanding big dollars used, because they know they'll get it

LOL... it sounds like they're going to acquire the recording by bidding for it on eBay.

The rights to offer it for streaming are quite different.

[bob_m_54]

2 minutes ago, POV said:

 

26 pages into a discussion that was answered on page 1 and is in the great debate section.  I think I can take some off topic liberty here!

Got derailed on the same page too.. hahaha...

[rantan]

Since the OP has not been sighted since November, I think it could be a case of kicking the ant's nest.

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, POV said:

Yes correct, but the 2014 remaster that appears on Dr Loudness is a lossy download.

It's on there as lossless (it's the 40th anniversary, disc 1) .... but lossy makes no significant difference to the DR values.  (a significant fraction of a dB is much much more than lossy compression makes)

 

1 hour ago, POV said:

yet it's not really possible to fully and conclusively trace provinence using available information

I think it does in this instance.   This Record Company is the sub label that put out the 2014 mastering on the various formats/relaeases (including the anniversary set)

[davewantsmoore]

1 minute ago, rantan said:

Since the OP has not been sighted since November, I think it could be a case of kicking the ant's nest.

Or a case of people talking about stuff....

[rantan]

1 minute ago, davewantsmoore said:

Or a case of people talking about stuff....

Indeed.

 

So why has he/she not contributed further?

 

There is no need to keep babysitting my posts Dave.

[georgehifi]

2 hours ago, POV said:

(I can't see issue number anywhere)?

Really??? see this is what your like. Click on the album name of the version you want to see all the details of.

 

Here all the releases of Allan Parsons "I Robot"

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/1/year/asc?artist=Alan Parsons&album=I Robot

 

Here is the 1984 7th cd down opened up to expose all details of that release.

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/84407

 

And here is the far more compressed 2007 release 16th one down

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/57727

 

All from the same precious original master, but re-mastered/re-issued releases. 

 

Please, Please say now you understand 

Edited February 4, 2023 by georgehifi

[davewantsmoore]

2 hours ago, rantan said:

There is no need to keep babysitting my posts Dave.

Yes there is.  Baby cries are quite stressful.... it's just a human reflex to try and make them stop.

[davewantsmoore]

44 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

Really??? see this is what your like.

All he's saying is sometimes it's hard to be sure which version is being streamed..... I think that's fair.

 

Also, I think that a not-insignificant amount of the time, all the streaming services get from the labels is that "latest issue" (which can sometimes be a bad remaster).

[rantan]

4 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Yes there is.  Baby cries are quite stressful.... it's just a human reflex to try and make them stop.

Nice try at obfuscation Dave, but cease the didactic narrative. it's getting really old ,very fast.

[davewantsmoore]

Just now, rantan said:

Nice try at obfuscation

I wasn't trying to confuse anything.

[rantan]

Whatever.

 

Perhaps you could try the ignored users setting?