banana plugs (or spades) vs bare wire

[DowneLisANsomsu]

trying to be objective here 

 

is there a mechanical/electrical advantage (and other advantages that are not related to sound) to using a plug?

 

my thoughts:

1. My impression is bare wires (can be soldered or not) provide better electrical connection. (I feel soldering those bare wires is no different to the internal wiring of the sound system "chain")
2. I can see the convenience factor of using plugs (especially if using banana plugs) if you regularly change speakers/devices
3. not sure on aesthetics since I won't looking at the back of these amps/speakers long enough to care how they look
4. when using plugs, I can easily see the wire polarity. BUT I can also use some sort of electrical tape (black and red) to end of the wire to easily identify polarity.

 

Thanks

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by mrjayviper

[bob_m_54]

The only thing I'll say, is that if by "soldering" you mean tinning the bare wire before you screw down the terminal on it, it will tend to loosen over time. Solder is malleable, but not resilient, so you get was is sometimes called "creep" due to the pressure of the screw down binding post on the tinned wire.

 

You could just tin the very tip of the wire, so that the tinned bit is not actually under the pressure surfaces of the binding post. But not so far protruding out the other side that it might cause shorting problems. Or maybe use a Bootlace ferrule on the stripped end. I don't bother, I just make sure the wire is mildy twisted and no loose strands are protruding.

Edited October 5, 2022 by bob_m_54
spelling

[DowneLisANsomsu]

yes. soldering the tip so there are no loose strands

[andyr]

1 hour ago, mrjayviper said:

trying to be objective here 

 

is there a mechanical/electrical advantage (and other advantages that are not related to sound) to using a plug?

 

my thoughts:

1. My impression is bare wires (can be soldered or not) provide better electrical connection. (I feel soldering those bare wires is no different to the internal wiring of the sound system "chain")
2. I can see the convenience factor of using plugs (especially if using banana plugs) if you regularly change speakers/devices
3. not sure on aesthetics since I won't looking at the back of these amps/speakers long enough to care how they look
4. when using plugs, I can easily see the wire polarity. BUT I can also use some sort of electrical tape (black and red) to end of the wire to easily identify polarity.

 

The way I look at it ... bare wire is a problem - compared to bps/spades - for 2 reasons:

1. this is the most important reason: the ends of the wire are open to the atmosphere - and will therefore oxidise.  In contrast, the wire between the end of the insulation surrounding the wire and the bp or spade soldered to it ... will be covered by heatshrink - so oxygen won't get to the bare metal.  NB:  this doesn't apply to bps/spades which attach using screws.
2. there is always the potential for a stray wire to short against the other binding post.  Whereas when soldered bps/spades are used ... the wires are enclosed.

 

[DowneLisANsomsu]

1 minute ago, andyr said:

 

The way I look at it ... bare wire is a problem - compared to bps/spades - for 2 reasons:

1. this is the most important reason: the ends of the wire are open to the atmosphere - and will therefore oxidise.  In contrast, the wire between the end of the insulation surrounding the wire and the bp or spade soldered to it ... will be covered by heatshrink - so oxygen won't get to the bare metal.  NB:  this doesn't apply to bps/spades which attach using screws.
2. there is always the potential for a stray wire to short against the other binding post.  Whereas when soldered bps/spades are used ... the wires are enclosed.

 

1. tinning the bare wire to prevent oxidation is no different to internal wiring? (do you resolder the internal wiring on your devices? are they even tinned?)

2. seems no.2 is also solved by tinning the bare wire (even just the ends)

[andyr]

23 minutes ago, mrjayviper said:

1. tinning the bare wire to prevent oxidation is no different to internal wiring? (do you resolder the internal wiring on your devices? are they even tinned?)

2. seems no.2 is also solved by tinning the bare wire (even just the ends)

 

If your wiring uses teflon insulation ... then what you say is true.  But PVC insulation expands (melts!) with the heat from a soldering iron - leaving a air gap around the wire.

 

[DowneLisANsomsu]

4 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

If your wiring uses teflon insulation ... then what you say is true.  But PVC insulation expands (melts!) with the heat from a soldering iron - leaving a air gap around the wire.

 

if the exposed wire is not part of the connection, does it really matter? I can understand if the point of contact is oxidising.

[bob_m_54]

22 hours ago, mrjayviper said:

yes. soldering the tip so there are no loose strands

Yes, but like this:

 

[075Congo]

Reading about a graphene contact enhancer marketed by Mad Scientist Audio in New Zealand. Recommended treatment for speaker cable terminations (bare wire/spade/banana).....has the advantage of lubricating wire to prevent long term degeneration/oxidation. A few other cable manufacturers are using graphene liquid/oil in their cable construction.

[DonGreen]

Didnt realise graphing was a type of snake? 

[Steever]

Big proponent of bare wire connections here. 
In years gone by, removing any plugs made for significant improvements to everything. 
 

I’m not currently running plugless though because my monoblocks use sockets only. While my speakers do have posts, I’ve upgraded my cables now and then. The thought of copping a massive hit on my Frey cables when selling to upgrade because they’re missing plugs is too much. 
At least Nordost Z-plugs aren’t too bad when it comes to losses associated with plug use. 

[muon*]

15 minutes ago, Steever said:

Big proponent of bare wire connections here. 
In years gone by, removing any plugs made for significant improvements to everything. 
 

I’m not currently running plugless though because my monoblocks use sockets only. While my speakers do have posts, I’ve upgraded my cables now and then. The thought of copping a massive hit on my Frey cables when selling to upgrade because they’re missing plugs is too much. 
At least Nordost Z-plugs aren’t too bad when it comes to losses associated with plug use. 

The Z plugs are what I favor

 

Nice fit into my ETI Pods.

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by muon*

[andyr]

12 minutes ago, muon* said:

The Z plugs are what I favour

 

Nice fit into my ETI Pods.

 

 

Absoloootely the best banana plugs to use, @Steever!    Although, the best wire connection is the soldered method shown in Ian's pic - as you can put heatshrink over the join to stop the bare ends of the wire, just before the solder joint, from oxidising.  (Which you can't do as effectively, with the screw-on connectors.)

 

[sloper]

l prefer direct connections.

From my amps to speakers is one cable with no plugs.

Even when going through walls and floor a electricel base plate with a whole drilled the cable size.

Tried bare wires and tinned l cant tell any difference, so tinned it is.

Less connections less failure points.

 

Interconnects l make myself, goes into a amp selector box, once again l cant hear any difference.

 

Maybe l am lucky?

 

regards Bruce

[075Congo]

Interesting Mark at Sonic Art made similar recommendations........re not using spades or bananas (which he sells excellent examples of both!!) and going for the bare wire (tinned) option. Just completed a simple Speaker Jumpers

DIY and as I added the Sonic Art silver spades........it occurred that Mark was right. Its all about $$ in my case.

[SonicArt]

There are a few variations on the market these days that copied the original Multi Contact shell banana. If you look at the material properties the original plug still stands out, beryllium copper has better mechanical properties and higher conductivity especially under hi current stress vs phosphor bronze versions (often sold as Z plugs but I think Nordosts ones are multicontact and not bronze). The genuine multicontact plug from Germany/Sweden is not all that cheap to buy  compared to say z plugs, but its cheap considering its about the best plug out there (as in almost no plug!)

Edited January 28, 2023 by SonicArt

[Ronidler]

Can I give a shoutout to using auto ring-type electrical connectors.  They are copper with a zink coating and have the advantage of low mass.   I crimp them to the cable and use a wire cutter to turn the ring into a spade.  Best alternative to bare wire I have found.

 

 

Never ceases to amaze me how much the type connection betwween speaker cable and speaker/amp can affect the sound.  As an example I recently dug out some old Blue Jeans Cable Belden speaker wire - at speaker end I used some EGM copper banana plugs (Speakers did not accept spades) and at the amp end I used some EGM copper spades.   Watching the tv that night through the stereo my wife said "why is the sound so muffled tonight?"   Only thing I had changed were the cables so put back the usual van Damme (with the auto connectors) and clarity returned.   Next day replaced the EGM spades with the auto ring connectors and voila nice clear detailed sound!   The EGM spades are pretty chunky so they may have been colouring the sound.

[Antipodean Brad]

If you cut out a section, as per my picture, you can make a hook, which will make it less likely than a spade connector to fall off.

 

 

[Ronidler]

Great idea I'll try it next time.

[bob_m_54]

9 hours ago, Antipodean Brad said:

If you cut out a section, as per my picture, you can make a hook, which will make it less likely than a spade connector to fall off.

 

 

that's what I do sometimes too, but more like this..

 

[rossb]

On 1/3/2023 at 9:42 AM, Ronidler said:

Never ceases to amaze me how much the type connection betwween speaker cable and speaker/amp can affect the sound.  As an example I recently dug out some old Blue Jeans Cable Belden speaker wire - at speaker end I used some EGM copper banana plugs (Speakers did not accept spades) and at the amp end I used some EGM copper spades.   Watching the tv that night through the stereo my wife said "why is the sound so muffled tonight?"   Only thing I had changed were the cables so put back the usual van Damme (with the auto connectors) and clarity returned.   Next day replaced the EGM spades with the auto ring connectors and voila nice clear detailed sound!   The EGM spades are pretty chunky so they may have been colouring the sound.

Interesting, I have just had my Furutech cables re-terminated with EGM bananas. I didn’t know anything about the EGM plugs before ordering them, other than that they are made of copper. I’m generally pretty fussy about the sound of my cables and have noticed nothing which could be described as a “muffled” sound. In fact, they are sounding very good. Is there a view that the EGM plugs are not all that good? They seemed reasonably priced.

Edited March 2, 2023 by rossb

[Ronidler]

15 minutes ago, rossb said:

Interesting, I have just had my Furutech cables re-terminated with EGM bananas. I didn’t know anything about the EGM plugs before ordering them, other than that they are made of copper. I’m generally pretty fussy about the sound of my cables and have noticed nothing which could be described as a “muffled” sound. In fact, they are sounding very good. Is there a view that the EGM plugs are not all that good? They seemed reasonably priced.

I must say that I am using EGM banana plugs and they are pretty good - except that the grub screws aren't long enough to sufficiently "grab" thinner cable (I replaced them with longer ones from Chinese rip offs).  It was the spades that didn't work with the Belden cable - I have no idea why.

[rossb]

That does seem odd, but thanks for the reply.

[bob_m_54]

22 minutes ago, rossb said:

Interesting, I have just had my Furutech cables re-terminated with EGM bananas. I didn’t know anything about the EGM plugs before ordering them, other than that they are made of copper. I’m generally pretty fussy about the sound of my cables and have noticed nothing which could be described as a “muffled” sound. In fact, they are sounding very good. Is there a view that the EGM plugs are not all that good? They seemed reasonably priced.

Copper is good.. Silver, or dare I say it, even tin plating is good. But more importantly is how are they terminated in the banana plugs

 

Edit:

 

1. crimped - best

2. soldered - almost as good

3. However else, depends

Edited March 2, 2023 by bob_m_54
more

[andyr]

19 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said:

But more importantly is how are they terminated in the banana plugs

 

Edit:

 

1. crimped - best

2. soldered - almost as good

3. However else, depends

 

Whilst yes, the spades that I use can be crimped (and I have a crimping tool) ... I always finish them off with solder. (Belt & braces!   )

 

But the banana plugs that I use cannot be crimped (the beryllium copper, cylindrical Multi-Contact ones) - so soldering is required.