xlr8or Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 Yes - I've tried a few tube amp clones based on Audio Note replicas and they were not fit for purpose. 2 2
Silver Audiophile Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 12 minutes ago, xlr8or said: Yes - I've tried a few tube amp clones based on Audio Note replicas and they were not fit for purpose. Your thoughts Kirk on ANK (Audio Note Kits)?
xlr8or Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 3 hours ago, Silver Audiophile said: Your thoughts Kirk on ANK (Audio Note Kits)? Excellent value when purchased second hand or even new when there is a quality builder in the background prepared to tinker the build further. 3 1
muon* Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 Just to note while ANK were originally born out of Audio Note UK, these days ANK audio kits are unrelated to Audio Note. https://ankaudiokits.com/ 1
MattyW Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) Some of the higher end darTZeel inspired amps are rather excellent though they’re certainly not cheap. These days I’ve gone in another direction with high sensitivity speakers and low powered amps….. I can get incredible value for money in terms of sonics that way. The Absolute Audio Labs get out of Thailand is rather spectacular. Once more not cheap but certainly incredible value considering their sonics. Not a copy of something either Edited November 11, 2022 by MattyW 1
khai Posted April 23, 2023 Posted April 23, 2023 few in AK praised for clone DartZeel amp, but safety issue is another thing!
THOMO Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 The FM Acoustics FM155 preamp copies are crazy good at almost give away prices.
mrbugeyes Posted April 29, 2023 Posted April 29, 2023 What I notice is that very few amplifiers on Aliexpress (china) have remote control volume and I don't know why that is.
mbz Posted April 29, 2023 Posted April 29, 2023 "too many" of such amps coming out of china looking for a fast buck. A while ago it was fashionable to put a valve in anything and then try and pass it off as hi-fi. As you've done, I'd rely on forum opinion rather than price/appearance/valves/power/... Certainly some nice gear coming out of china, Consonance seems to be about the mark however early shanling(?) was questionable... The chinese kits are good for learning and a bit of fun but need to be careful if spending over AUD100 or so...
THOMO Posted April 30, 2023 Posted April 30, 2023 40 minutes ago, mbz said: "too many" of such amps coming out of china looking for a fast buck. A while ago it was fashionable to put a valve in anything and then try and pass it off as hi-fi. As you've done, I'd rely on forum opinion rather than price/appearance/valves/power/... Certainly some nice gear coming out of china, Consonance seems to be about the mark however early shanling(?) was questionable... The chinese kits are good for learning and a bit of fun but need to be careful if spending over AUD100 or so... Perhaps but there is nothing wrong with copies if they are made well.I have been using an Usher power amp for many years and that is a copy of an earlier Nelson Pass /Threshold design.Nelson Pass has commented on those amps and said there is nothing wrong with copies like that because the patents have expired.The build quality on the Usher is also considered better than the originals. Many of the Chinese "clones" are of older designs on which the patents have expired.As I understand it the Dartzeel NHB 108 copies are included in that .The current production Dartzeel NHB108 Mk2 is a bit different and is not being copied.It also costs $95,000.The decent copies of the Mk1 are more like $1100. I agree that some caution is needed.Many of the "copies" are poorly done and not very close to the originals [the Accuphase copies look very suspect].Others like the Dartzeel and FM Acoustics are old designs and look pretty close to the originals with apparent good build quality and decent parts. A friend has extensive workshop testing equipment and has tested a Naim copy and it measures fine.The older Naim designs were based on earlier circuit designs [by RCA I believe] so were never patented. The copying process seems to start with companies reproducing the original circuit boards and then other companies completing the build.You can buy just the circuit boards and build your own if you do not trust the Chinese to do it properly. 1 2
mbz Posted April 30, 2023 Posted April 30, 2023 Agree nothing wrong with copies, vaguely recall there was a good copy of a vintage marantz power(?) amp that was well received. I'm more against kits from china with a token valve or dated opamp, again such kits are ok for learning or a bit of fun but don't pay a lot of money for them. The OP did post "clone" so I'm a little off post, my bad.
TemaadAudio Posted April 30, 2023 Posted April 30, 2023 Hi, I Have a MBL6010D Pre-amp clone with 4xAD797's and it sounds very, very good in my second system. The bass is particularly good, better than my Pass Pre amp. This is mated with a clone TPA3255 power amp, which is also good, but not up to my main Hypex amp. Cheers 1 1
zydeco Posted May 6, 2023 Posted May 6, 2023 On 11/11/2022 at 4:23 PM, MattyW said: Some of the higher end darTZeel inspired amps are rather excellent though they’re certainly not cheap. These days I’ve gone in another direction with high sensitivity speakers and low powered amps….. I can get incredible value for money in terms of sonics that way. The Absolute Audio Labs get out of Thailand is rather spectacular. Once more not cheap but certainly incredible value considering their sonics. Not a copy of something either There seem, on Aliexpress, to be a huge range of different Dartzeel NHB108 Mk1 clones at different price points. Any recommendation as to a specific seller / manufacturer for a high quality clone?
muon* Posted May 6, 2023 Posted May 6, 2023 (edited) They might have gone up a lot since Matt got the one he had. Edit: There is certainly a lot more variations now, maybe that's it but one dubbed a Deluxe is listed at $5200, but one that looks identical from another seller listed at $6300 (this one has a higher shipping fee too). Then one with slightly smaller transformer covers and no speaker protection boards and bird shaped links on the big capacitors for $920. Edited May 6, 2023 by muon*
THOMO Posted May 6, 2023 Posted May 6, 2023 (edited) I can recommend the Weiliang /Breeze Audio Dartzeel NHB 108 copies with the four big blue Sprague capacitors .They are apparently second hand caps but tested for correct capacitance.Probably routine replacements from main frame computers.They seem to sell for about $1100 plus around $300 shipping. These are really lovely sounding amps but are more about musicality, timbre ,finesse and 3D soundstage than powerhouse /high current /drive anything type SS amps.Very valve amp sounding . They also need a good high gain active preamp driving them to sound their best.They sound great with my Supratek 6SN7 preamp driving big Tannoys. and Yamaha NS75Ts and horns.Not so good with my Gale 401s which are amplifier fussy and need heaps of current being 3 ohm.They also match well with the FM 155 copy preamps. That combo will give you seriously high end sound for around $2000.The genuine items would be more like $80,000. Edited May 8, 2023 by THOMO 4
georgehifi Posted May 7, 2023 Posted May 7, 2023 On 07/11/2022 at 2:36 AM, GaryYC said: Has anyone tried the Chinese cloned amps? Some are rubbish and some very good, pick one if you can and post up what it's cloned off, with a pic of the internals, and you'll soon have answers with reasons you can trust in. Cheers George 1
THOMO Posted May 8, 2023 Posted May 8, 2023 (edited) The main justification I see for using copy amps and preamps is that you can then afford to spend a lot more on your speakers and room treatments which are the two things most likely to give you a great sounding system.That and the consideration that these products are marketed for exclusive use of the wealthiest 1% and anything that might cause annoyance to that sector should be encouraged!So makers like Dartzeel,FM Acoustics ,Goldmund and CH Precision based in that tax evasion/money laundering/ tax free cantons in Switzerland are fair game I reckon. I would not encourage the purchase of say Pass Labs or Sugden copy amplifiers because they have always been reasonably priced for their quality, and not marketed and priced in an elitist or exclusive way. Edited May 8, 2023 by THOMO 2
Mendes Posted May 8, 2023 Posted May 8, 2023 14 minutes ago, THOMO said: I would not encourage the purchase of say Pass Labs or Sugden amplifiers because they have always been reasonably priced for their quality, and not marketed and priced in an elitist or exclusive way. Jon, you mean you would encourage? 1
THOMO Posted May 8, 2023 Posted May 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, Mendes said: Jon, you mean you would encourage? No I would not encourage.Unless of course the designs have expired or no patents.Then anybody is free to copy them.
Mendes Posted May 8, 2023 Posted May 8, 2023 1 hour ago, THOMO said: No I would not encourage.Unless of course the designs have expired or no patents.Then anybody is free to copy them. Oh, I think you mean buying clones of Pass and Sugden, I read that incorrectly.
vinilink Posted May 8, 2023 Posted May 8, 2023 Not sure why this thread is not locked by admin and where is the OP? The OP may be doing a cloning business and using this forum to help this kind of industry to thrive while hurting the genuine audio manufacturers out there. I thought we all learnt from eg. Bill's cable trade experiences. Just my 2 cents.
Edna777 Posted October 6, 2023 Posted October 6, 2023 I'm a genuine person who lives in NZ and bought on Trade Me a breeze Audio Burmester 933 copy that somebody else had already decided they didn't like . At first I was disappointed as it didn't flow and was like a lumpy mess... didn't tick the box.. Nothing to loose as only paid $350 for it.. bargain looking at the build quality alone.. first thing was to get rid of the Vol pot and direct from the inputs to the board.. next was the IC chip that I had read was not in the signal path but involved in the negative feedback circuit.. Had a couple of discrete OP01 modules from AliExpress lying around so popped out the dip 8 IC and substituted..and WOW this amp burst into life. Sensational.. I am not an amateur in HiFi as have worked in HiFi sales in London and Sydney for most of my working life (until the HiFi shop dismiss/crash of 2006/8.). Am using with ESS AMT 1s and also a pair of Quad esl63 s so I have the system that show's this stuff up.. anyway not many people post reviews so thought I would like to say my experience.. cheers 4 1
MattyW Posted October 6, 2023 Posted October 6, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 3:18 PM, zydeco said: There seem, on Aliexpress, to be a huge range of different Dartzeel NHB108 Mk1 clones at different price points. Any recommendation as to a specific seller / manufacturer for a high quality clone? This is the best one I’ve heard by a large margin. A friend has one: https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqTFhEm 2
Peterbean Posted October 7, 2023 Posted October 7, 2023 On 29/4/2023 at 9:48 PM, mrbugeyes said: What I notice is that very few amplifiers on Aliexpress (china) have remote control volume and I don't know why that is. Yes in fact I’ve been looking into this in general as I’m surprised how few amps do.Adding one just for volume is pretty simple, just google it of course. MicroZOTL amps use an Apple Remote for just volume, linked to the stepped atenuator. I asked an Aus amp maker about it and he wasn’t interested. Maybe someone here should start a business adding them
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