ikhuong Posted February 22, 2021 Author Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) MSB has released a new firmware Version 18.14 on 19 Jan 21, has anyone tried and noticed significant difference in functions or sound quality? I found LED display interface is a bit smarter on the latest version, there is a new function called Roon Remote:On/Off which could enable the DAC remote to control Roon (wow, I did not know this), great job https://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/reference-support/ https://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/premier-dac-support/ Edited February 22, 2021 by ikhuong
BugPowderDust Posted February 22, 2021 Posted February 22, 2021 Yeah I’ve had it installed, but was having problems with multi room sync using Roon. I’m actually on a beta version of v19 at the moment which seems to have fixed my issues re: group sync. I imagine it will get put up online soon enough.
DrPo Posted February 22, 2021 Posted February 22, 2021 Hi I downloaded the 18.1 FW but cannot see the Roon on/off setting anywhere in the menu options. Can you guide me how to find it? thanks in advance
ikhuong Posted February 22, 2021 Author Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, DrPo said: Hi I downloaded the 18.1 FW but cannot see the Roon on/off setting anywhere in the menu options. Can you guide me how to find it? thanks in advance Are you using Network Renderer V2? “roon remote:on” gives option to use MSB remote control to Play/Stop/Next/Pre your playlist Edited February 22, 2021 by ikhuong
DrPo Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 I see, no... I am using ProISL... somehow it sounded a bit better than Renderer when I had compared two years ago this was in my "wish list" for Roon, especially not having to turn your smartphone on every time you want to move to the next track or pause thanks 1
ikhuong Posted February 23, 2021 Author Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) ProISL won’t give DAC option to interact back to Roon server . In standard setting, I trust this is the best sounding interface with fiber optic isolation, however, I did some tweak with Network Renderer to have Etherregen with fiber optic in between with positive outcome Edited February 23, 2021 by ikhuong
DrPo Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 so, if I get you right: you go Ethernet -> Sonore Optical Module -> optical out -> EtherRegen (optical in, Ethernet out)? like you use the EtherRegen not really as a switch but as a converter optical to ethernet, effectively an inverse ProISL but retaining the ability to communicate back (for volume and now for pause / skip to next etc) ? 1
ikhuong Posted February 24, 2021 Author Posted February 24, 2021 not quite the same, the Etherregen and fiber optic just play a role of media type to stop current leakage or noise from upstream, proISL and Network Renderer use two completely different data protocols. ProISL/ProUSB uses USB protocol, MSB ProUSB Input sends bitstream (PCM/DSD) as data package over the USB cable >Single mode fiber to ProISL. This gives no option to control Roon Transport( your laptop/Roon server) as bitstream is only a one-way communication (except some kind of data handshakes, clock synchronisation, etc) the network renderer uses Ethernet protocol and can communicate back to Roon server just like two computers talk each other.
DrPo Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 @Kevin: in my case we compared with my dealer (at the store) the Renderer V2 against the ProISL, found ProISL (as MSB in fact claims) a bit better, so I ordered mine with the ProISL, fed directly from my Antipodes EX USB output. Later on I found adding a Sonore UL with LPS between the EX and the ProISL to provide a good improvement so this is what I use now. But it would be interesting if someone could compare this "optimised" configuration against the non-USB, network based solution with the optical isolation upstream you have described and you are using.
ikhuong Posted February 25, 2021 Author Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) I think ProISL is the best sounding interface as per MSB and was reported similarly by Ittaku as well. So you are not alone to spot that out. It is a very smart solution, optical converting is a relative lighter task verus Ethernet data processing. The Network renderer is indeed a mini computer with reasonable powerful processor and it diffinitely generates more noise at the DaC verus a converter. unless you want to simplify the system and control Roon with remote, I suggest not to switch, i trust a newer Antipodes model like k30/k50 might give you even better results. Although no real experience yet but I strongly believe the better the transport, the better bitstream to reach dac (with less data lost). Bitstream is a oneway communication without checksum or data correction, so if something is missing on the way to the DAC, it is a missing one and ProISL won’t be able to fix that. if something can be called as ideal setup with Network Renderer, i would say Antipodes K40 with Ethernet out directly to MSB Network Renderer. one of SNA is very happy to report Antipodes K40 direct Ethernet out can improve his Aqua LinQ streamer/Aqua Formula DAC significantly . I came to listen his demo with new K40 and the improvement has to be described as huge, that is my next goal to try with MSB, it is hard to demo at home as distributor has no loan gear, so I have to wait for future chance, Edited February 25, 2021 by ikhuong
DrPo Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 Very interesting thanks. Indeed an Antipodes upgrade is something I have been thinking about as well but not enough shared experiences with the new series
Jones99 Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, ikhuong said: I think ProISL is the best sounding interface as per MSB and was reported similarly by Ittaku as well. So you are not alone to spot that out. It is a very smart solution, optical converting is a relative lighter task verus Ethernet data processing. The Network renderer is indeed a mini computer with reasonable powerful processor and it diffinitely generates more noise at the DaC verus a converter. unless you want to simplify the system and control Roon with remote, I suggest not to switch, i trust a newer Antipodes model like k30/k50 might give you even better results. Although no real experience yet but I strongly believe the better the transport, the better bitstream to reach dac (with less data lost). Bitstream is a oneway communication without checksum or data correction, so if something is missing on the way to the DAC, it is a missing one and ProISL won’t be able to fix that. if something can be called as ideal setup with Network Renderer, i would say Antipodes K40 with Ethernet out directly to MSB Network Renderer. one of SNA is very happy to report Antipodes K40 direct Ethernet out can improve his Aqua LinQ streamer/Aqua Formula DAC significantly . I came to listen his demo with new K40 and the improvement has to be described as huge, that is my next goal to try with MSB, it is hard to demo at home as distributor has no loan gear, so I have to wait for future chance, Do you want to try the Renderer V2 module?
Ittaku Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, ikhuong said: Although no real experience yet but I strongly believe the better the transport, the better bitstream to reach dac (with less data lost). Bitstream is a oneway communication without checksum or data correction, so if something is missing on the way to the DAC, it is a missing one and ProISL won’t be able to fix that. Data is never ever ever lost in a digital configuration. You shouldn't even entertain that idea. Digital sound quality is never due to loss of data, only due to timing, waveform, internal/external noise, ground loops etc. etc. etc.
ikhuong Posted February 25, 2021 Author Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Ittaku said: Data is never ever ever lost in a digital configuration. You shouldn't even entertain that idea. Digital sound quality is never due to loss of data, only due to timing, waveform, internal/external noise, ground loops etc. etc. etc. do you have documents/ data to prove no loss of data in UsB transfer? from my side understanding, it is not exactly that ,ex below paper https://www.xmos.ai/download/Fundamentals-of-USB-Audio(1.0).pdf ”USB-Audio uses isochronous, interrupt and control transfers. All audio data is transferred over isochronous transfers; interrupt transfers are used to relay infor- mation regarding the availability of audio clocks; control transfers are used used to set volume, request sample rates, etc.” “Isochronous transfers are used to transfer data in real-time between host and device. When an isochronous endpoint is set up by the host, the host allocates a specific amount of bandwidth to the isochronous endpoint, and it regularly performs an IN- or OUT-transfer on that endpoint. For example, the host may OUT 1 KByte of data every 125 us to the device. Since a fixed and limited amount of bandwidth has been allocated, there is no time to resend data if anything goes wrong. The data has a CRC as normal, but if the receiving side detects an error there is no resend mechanism.” Ethernet protocol suffers different set of issues but less serve than usb cables. If you notice, sometime there is a pop/click while playing a song via Roon over Ethernet, play again that song, the occasional pop/click might not there any more. So that is a kind of data error I experienced on Roon endpoint, the obvious data errors will create pop, the less serve error will not hearable and only mask the sound quality. and yes there are other factors as well https://youtu.be/u0ebI2GvWMo The Youtuber is quite a honest one to tell straight BS but he did not call bs out in the case of Ethernet switch. Edited February 25, 2021 by ikhuong
Ittaku Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) EDIT: I'm not sure what protocol they use, but usb is really hard to lose data. Edited February 25, 2021 by Ittaku
ikhuong Posted February 25, 2021 Author Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Ittaku said: EDIT: I'm not sure what protocol they use, but usb is really hard to lose data. If your laptop/desktop/server detects ProUSB with a USB Driver, it uses USB-audio protocol then. The fiber things are just a media coverter and it dooes’t care what protocol it carries. https://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/usb/usbdrivers/ it is hard but not 100% no lost, hence there is a market for hi-price usb cables and many of buyers by no mean newbies audiophiles. Edited February 25, 2021 by ikhuong
Ittaku Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 1 minute ago, ikhuong said: If your laptop/desktop/server detects ProUSB with a USB Driver, it uses USB-audio protocol then. The fiber things are just a media coverter and it dooes’t care what protocol it carries. https://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/usb/usbdrivers/ it is hard but not 100% no lost, hence there is a market for hi-price usb cables and many of buyers by no mean newbies audiophiles. Even cheap garbage way out of spec cables will not lose data. Really you have to try hard to lose data via usb. It is not data loss that is the cause of quality loss over usb. http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html 1
BugPowderDust Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 The other thing is audio isn't delivered over USB as a "just in time" delivery. The payload is being sent at a faster rate than you are rendering it (eg USB2.0 signalling at 480 Mbps) so even if there is an issue in the isochronous transfer, the buffering on the receiving end is refilled faster than you would see a disruption in the underlying data and hear it as a "pop" due to an error. The only way this is catastrophic to your audio stream is if your cable doesn't meet spec, is too long or you have a faulty USB interface at either end. I really wish people would better understand the communications protocols and their inherent data protection mechanisms before asserting cables will fix non-existent issues. You are really ignoring billions of computers worldwide, transferring terabytes (or more) of data every second without data loss. IT and networking in general have been optimised at scale and have had the niggles worn out through successive improvements in technology for decades now. It is now commoditised. The only place in the world where you need a fancy ethernet or USB cable is in Audiophile land. Not where the media is being created (see studios) or distributed (see the cables in the data centres say Spotify uses). 2
Ittaku Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 9 hours ago, ikhuong said: there is a market for hi-price usb cables and many of buyers by no mean newbies audiophiles. You're also asking someone who uses $15 USB cables that meet USB specs instead of fancy audiophile USB cables with his $200K system.
ikhuong Posted February 25, 2021 Author Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) All have relevant arguments/opinions and make audiophile world interesting. We should leave digital cables/transport debate aside as they are really off topic for main purposes of this thread which mean to share and report experience of MSB DAC setup. if someone thinks they know everything about digital audio, he/she should be a pioneer audio engineer and earn multi-millions instead of debating by reading SME’s research . There is always room to grow in digital audio, time will tell. come back to original topic, I am keen to hear more sharing user experience sharing on the use of better transport or music server on MSB network renderer v2 and ProISl module. Thanks @DrPo to share user experiment on a good transport that improves sound of ProISL Edited July 19, 2021 by ikhuong 2
Ittaku Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, ikhuong said: All have relevant arguments/opinions and make audiophile world interesting. We should leave digital cables/transport debate aside as they are really off topic for main purposes of this thread which mean to share and report experience of MSB DAC setup. Sure, that's why I just declared what I do with usb cables; I was not proscriptive about why and what effects usb cables have. That said, I can say with certainty that data integrity is not the problem (Full disclosure: I've coded many usb drivers, but not in audio.) 1
ikhuong Posted February 26, 2021 Author Posted February 26, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, DrPo said: Very interesting thanks. Indeed an Antipodes upgrade is something I have been thinking about as well but not enough shared experiences with the new series https://www.audioshark.org/msb-205/msb-pro-usb-16054.html Or Taiko Extreme, lol. Read the lengthy thread, my take away point is MSB ProISL USB to Taiko Extreme with local music on PCIe SSD and Gobel LaCord USB might push unprecedented performance. Not sure anyone is willing to go this far to experiment and re-test those claims. I think Antipodes K50 is a real contender for ProISL and I am keen to hear from Greg in the future, lol Edited February 26, 2021 by ikhuong
Ittaku Posted February 26, 2021 Posted February 26, 2021 Quote Bus 001 Device 026: ID 6b42:0042 MSB Technology ProUSB V2.0 Device Descriptor: bLength 18 bDescriptorType 1 bcdUSB 2.00 bDeviceClass 239 Miscellaneous Device bDeviceSubClass 2 bDeviceProtocol 1 Interface Association bMaxPacketSize0 64 idVendor 0x6b42 idProduct 0x0042 bcdDevice 2.00 iManufacturer 1 MSB Technology iProduct 3 ProUSB V2.0 iSerial 2 bNumConfigurations 2 Configuration Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 2 wTotalLength 0x0123 bNumInterfaces 4 bConfigurationValue 1 iConfiguration 0 bmAttributes 0x80 (Bus Powered) MaxPower 500mA Interface Association: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 11 bFirstInterface 0 bInterfaceCount 2 bFunctionClass 1 Audio bFunctionSubClass 0 bFunctionProtocol 32 iFunction 0 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 0 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 0 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 1 Control Device bInterfaceProtocol 32 iInterface 3 ProUSB V2.0 AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (HEADER) bcdADC 2.00 bCategory 8 wTotalLength 0x0036 bmControls 0x00 AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 10 (CLOCK_SOURCE) bClockID 41 bmAttributes 3 Internal programmable clock bmControls 0x07 Clock Frequency Control (read/write) Clock Validity Control (read-only) bAssocTerminal 0 iClockSource 9 MSB Technology Internal Clock AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 11 (CLOCK_SELECTOR) bClockID 40 bNrInPins 1 baCSourceID(0) 41 bmControls 0x03 Clock Selector Control (read/write) iClockSelector 8 MSB Technology Clock Selector AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 17 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 2 (INPUT_TERMINAL) bTerminalID 2 wTerminalType 0x0101 USB Streaming bAssocTerminal 0 bCSourceID 40 bNrChannels 2 bmChannelConfig 0x00000000 iChannelNames 11 Analogue 1 bmControls 0x0000 iTerminal 6 ProUSB V2.0 AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 12 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL) bTerminalID 20 wTerminalType 0x0301 Speaker bAssocTerminal 0 bSourceID 2 bCSourceID 40 bmControls 0x0000 iTerminal 0 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 1 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 0 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming bInterfaceProtocol 32 iInterface 4 ProUSB V2.0 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 1 bAlternateSetting 1 bNumEndpoints 2 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming bInterfaceProtocol 32 iInterface 4 ProUSB V2.0 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 16 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (AS_GENERAL) bTerminalLink 2 bmControls 0x00 bFormatType 1 bmFormats 0x00000001 PCM bNrChannels 2 bmChannelConfig 0x00000000 iChannelNames 11 Analogue 1 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 6 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 2 (FORMAT_TYPE) bFormatType 1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I) bSubslotSize 4 bBitResolution 24 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT bmAttributes 5 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type Asynchronous Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0308 1x 776 bytes bInterval 1 AudioStreaming Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 37 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (EP_GENERAL) bmAttributes 0x00 bmControls 0x00 bLockDelayUnits 2 Decoded PCM samples wLockDelay 0x0008 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 17 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type None Usage Type Feedback wMaxPacketSize 0x0004 1x 4 bytes bInterval 4 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 1 bAlternateSetting 2 bNumEndpoints 2 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming bInterfaceProtocol 32 iInterface 4 ProUSB V2.0 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 16 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (AS_GENERAL) bTerminalLink 2 bmControls 0x00 bFormatType 1 bmFormats 0x00000001 PCM bNrChannels 2 bmChannelConfig 0x00000000 iChannelNames 11 Analogue 1 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 6 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 2 (FORMAT_TYPE) bFormatType 1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I) bSubslotSize 2 bBitResolution 16 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT bmAttributes 5 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type Asynchronous Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0184 1x 388 bytes bInterval 1 AudioStreaming Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 37 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (EP_GENERAL) bmAttributes 0x00 bmControls 0x00 bLockDelayUnits 2 Decoded PCM samples wLockDelay 0x0008 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 17 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type None Usage Type Feedback wMaxPacketSize 0x0004 1x 4 bytes bInterval 4 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 1 bAlternateSetting 3 bNumEndpoints 2 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming bInterfaceProtocol 32 iInterface 4 ProUSB V2.0 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 16 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (AS_GENERAL) bTerminalLink 2 bmControls 0x00 bFormatType 1 bmFormats 0x80000000 bNrChannels 2 bmChannelConfig 0x00000000 iChannelNames 11 Analogue 1 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 6 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 2 (FORMAT_TYPE) bFormatType 1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I) bSubslotSize 4 bBitResolution 32 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT bmAttributes 5 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type Asynchronous Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0308 1x 776 bytes bInterval 1 AudioStreaming Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 37 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (EP_GENERAL) bmAttributes 0x00 bmControls 0x00 bLockDelayUnits 2 Decoded PCM samples wLockDelay 0x0008 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 17 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type None Usage Type Feedback wMaxPacketSize 0x0004 1x 4 bytes bInterval 4 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 2 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 0 bInterfaceClass 254 Application Specific Interface bInterfaceSubClass 1 Device Firmware Update bInterfaceProtocol 1 iInterface 10 MSB Technology DFU Device Firmware Upgrade Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 33 bmAttributes 7 Will Not Detach Manifestation Tolerant Upload Supported Download Supported wDetachTimeout 250 milliseconds wTransferSize 64 bytes bcdDFUVersion 1.10 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 3 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 1 bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface Device bInterfaceSubClass 0 bInterfaceProtocol 0 iInterface 14 ProUSB V2.0 (MQA HID) HID Device Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 33 bcdHID 1.10 bCountryCode 0 Not supported bNumDescriptors 1 bDescriptorType 34 Report wDescriptorLength 21 Report Descriptor: (length is 21) Item(Global): Usage Page, data= [ 0x00 0xff ] 65280 (null) Item(Local Usage, data= [ 0x01 ] 1 (null) Item(Main Collection, data= [ 0x01 ] 1 Application Item(Global): Logical Minimum, data= [ 0x00 ] 0 Item(Global): Logical Maximum, data= [ 0xff 0x00 ] 255 Item(Global): Report Size, data= [ 0x08 ] 8 Item(Global): Report Count, data= [ 0x40 ] 64 Item(Local Usage, data= [ 0x01 ] 1 (null) Item(Main Feature, data= [ 0x01 ] 1 Constant Array Absolute No_Wrap Linear Preferred_State No_Null_Position Non_Volatile Bitfield Item(Main End Collection, data=none Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x83 EP 3 IN bmAttributes 3 Transfer Type Interrupt Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0040 1x 64 bytes bInterval 8 Configuration Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 2 wTotalLength 0x0123 bNumInterfaces 4 bConfigurationValue 1 iConfiguration 0 bmAttributes 0x80 (Bus Powered) MaxPower 500mA Interface Association: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 11 bFirstInterface 0 bInterfaceCount 2 bFunctionClass 1 Audio bFunctionSubClass 0 bFunctionProtocol 32 iFunction 0 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 0 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 0 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 1 Control Device bInterfaceProtocol 32 iInterface 3 ProUSB V2.0 AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (HEADER) bcdADC 2.00 bCategory 8 wTotalLength 0x0036 bmControls 0x00 AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 10 (CLOCK_SOURCE) bClockID 41 bmAttributes 3 Internal programmable clock bmControls 0x07 Clock Frequency Control (read/write) Clock Validity Control (read-only) bAssocTerminal 0 iClockSource 9 MSB Technology Internal Clock AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 11 (CLOCK_SELECTOR) bClockID 40 bNrInPins 1 baCSourceID(0) 41 bmControls 0x03 Clock Selector Control (read/write) iClockSelector 8 MSB Technology Clock Selector AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 17 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 2 (INPUT_TERMINAL) bTerminalID 2 wTerminalType 0x0101 USB Streaming bAssocTerminal 0 bCSourceID 40 bNrChannels 2 bmChannelConfig 0x00000000 iChannelNames 11 Analogue 1 bmControls 0x0000 iTerminal 6 ProUSB V2.0 AudioControl Interface Descriptor: bLength 12 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL) bTerminalID 20 wTerminalType 0x0301 Speaker bAssocTerminal 0 bSourceID 2 bCSourceID 40 bmControls 0x0000 iTerminal 0 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 1 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 0 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming bInterfaceProtocol 32 iInterface 4 ProUSB V2.0 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 1 bAlternateSetting 1 bNumEndpoints 2 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming bInterfaceProtocol 32 iInterface 4 ProUSB V2.0 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 16 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (AS_GENERAL) bTerminalLink 2 bmControls 0x00 bFormatType 1 bmFormats 0x00000001 PCM bNrChannels 2 bmChannelConfig 0x00000000 iChannelNames 11 Analogue 1 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 6 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 2 (FORMAT_TYPE) bFormatType 1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I) bSubslotSize 4 bBitResolution 24 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT bmAttributes 5 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type Asynchronous Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0308 1x 776 bytes bInterval 1 AudioStreaming Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 37 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (EP_GENERAL) bmAttributes 0x00 bmControls 0x00 bLockDelayUnits 2 Decoded PCM samples wLockDelay 0x0008 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 17 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type None Usage Type Feedback wMaxPacketSize 0x0004 1x 4 bytes bInterval 4 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 1 bAlternateSetting 2 bNumEndpoints 2 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming bInterfaceProtocol 32 iInterface 4 ProUSB V2.0 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 16 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (AS_GENERAL) bTerminalLink 2 bmControls 0x00 bFormatType 1 bmFormats 0x00000001 PCM bNrChannels 2 bmChannelConfig 0x00000000 iChannelNames 11 Analogue 1 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 6 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 2 (FORMAT_TYPE) bFormatType 1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I) bSubslotSize 2 bBitResolution 16 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT bmAttributes 5 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type Asynchronous Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0184 1x 388 bytes bInterval 1 AudioStreaming Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 37 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (EP_GENERAL) bmAttributes 0x00 bmControls 0x00 bLockDelayUnits 2 Decoded PCM samples wLockDelay 0x0008 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 17 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type None Usage Type Feedback wMaxPacketSize 0x0004 1x 4 bytes bInterval 4 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 1 bAlternateSetting 3 bNumEndpoints 2 bInterfaceClass 1 Audio bInterfaceSubClass 2 Streaming bInterfaceProtocol 32 iInterface 4 ProUSB V2.0 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 16 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (AS_GENERAL) bTerminalLink 2 bmControls 0x00 bFormatType 1 bmFormats 0x80000000 bNrChannels 2 bmChannelConfig 0x00000000 iChannelNames 11 Analogue 1 AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor: bLength 6 bDescriptorType 36 bDescriptorSubtype 2 (FORMAT_TYPE) bFormatType 1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I) bSubslotSize 4 bBitResolution 32 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x01 EP 1 OUT bmAttributes 5 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type Asynchronous Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0308 1x 776 bytes bInterval 1 AudioStreaming Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 8 bDescriptorType 37 bDescriptorSubtype 1 (EP_GENERAL) bmAttributes 0x00 bmControls 0x00 bLockDelayUnits 2 Decoded PCM samples wLockDelay 0x0008 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 17 Transfer Type Isochronous Synch Type None Usage Type Feedback wMaxPacketSize 0x0004 1x 4 bytes bInterval 4 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 2 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 0 bInterfaceClass 254 Application Specific Interface bInterfaceSubClass 1 Device Firmware Update bInterfaceProtocol 1 iInterface 10 MSB Technology DFU Device Firmware Upgrade Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 33 bmAttributes 7 Will Not Detach Manifestation Tolerant Upload Supported Download Supported wDetachTimeout 250 milliseconds wTransferSize 64 bytes bcdDFUVersion 1.10 Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 3 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 1 bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface Device bInterfaceSubClass 0 bInterfaceProtocol 0 iInterface 14 ProUSB V2.0 (MQA HID) HID Device Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 33 bcdHID 1.10 bCountryCode 0 Not supported bNumDescriptors 1 bDescriptorType 34 Report wDescriptorLength 21 Report Descriptor: (length is 21) Item(Global): Usage Page, data= [ 0x00 0xff ] 65280 (null) Item(Local Usage, data= [ 0x01 ] 1 (null) Item(Main Collection, data= [ 0x01 ] 1 Application Item(Global): Logical Minimum, data= [ 0x00 ] 0 Item(Global): Logical Maximum, data= [ 0xff 0x00 ] 255 Item(Global): Report Size, data= [ 0x08 ] 8 Item(Global): Report Count, data= [ 0x40 ] 64 Item(Local Usage, data= [ 0x01 ] 1 (null) Item(Main Feature, data= [ 0x01 ] 1 Constant Array Absolute No_Wrap Linear Preferred_State No_Null_Position Non_Volatile Bitfield Item(Main End Collection, data=none Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x83 EP 3 IN bmAttributes 3 Transfer Type Interrupt Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0040 1x 64 bytes bInterval 8 Device Qualifier (for other device speed): bLength 10 bDescriptorType 6 bcdUSB 2.00 bDeviceClass 239 Miscellaneous Device bDeviceSubClass 2 bDeviceProtocol 1 Interface Association bMaxPacketSize0 64 bNumConfigurations 2 can't get debug descriptor: Resource temporarily unavailable Device Status: 0x0000 (Bus Powered) Dump of the USB details of the ProISL module for those who can understand them. It sure isn't a simple trivial device
DrPo Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) OK, my dealer kindly lent me the Renderer V2 module, I can now compare EX -> SonoreUR + LPS -> ProISL versus EX -> Renderer V2 at home. I may be able to do a bit more focused comparisons during the next couple of days before I return but first impressions are very good. I don't feel I am missing something with the Renderer (comparing together with another person would be preferable but out of the question due to covid restrictions...) and the extra convenience of using the remote for basic pause/next track operations is for me quite important as I quite ofter listen with closed eyes and find the need to unlock the phone/tablet to skip a track quite a nuisance. This might sound ridiculous but each to each own... So... good job MSB on this one! Edited March 4, 2021 by DrPo 1
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