Lii Song Platinum 10 reference drivers

[MattyW]

41 minutes ago, Artnet said:

 

Interesting tuning device.  Internal diffusion and absorption at its most creative for sure.

 

My speakers certainly don't hit you in the chest as Steve's BLH seem to do though if turned up enough it does vibrate the floor and couch. It comes across as very natural to me though given the difference in size I suspect Steve's BLH will be the go to for those wanting to get the best from the Platinum-10. By Steve's description of things I rather suspect there's nothing else on the planet much like it at any price. 

[Bryan S]

I just hope they release the plans pretty soon, these are going to take a while to build and finish so the sooner the better. I was told by Lii that my PT-10s would be shipping this week but I'm not sure if I'm included in the first batch or the June shipments. I'm making these specifically to use with my 45 SET, 1.5 watts, and in the meantime I'm using a pair of Klipsch RP600m I bought just for the interim, and they're going to be a letdown from my other gear but this is a serious FWP I understand. I could always just park the 45 until I finish the build and listen to my Willsenton, it's not too shabby after all the mods.

[MattyW]

Even if it takes longer, these will be worth the wait @Bryan S. I have a sneaking suspicion that if Steve Deckert manages to get Stereophile magazine to review them they'll find these the best sounding speakers on the planet. Certainly sounds that way from what he's written of them 

[Bryan S]

He sure seems enthusiastic! And really, it’s not a super tough build, just one driver hole and NO CROSSOVER!

 I’m building a pair for a friend, 3 drivers and a passive radiator, plus the complicated crossover. One third the size, simple bracing, and clear lacquer over Baltic birch, they will take longer to build. At least I’ll be able to carry them out the door!

[MattyW]

I think the genius is in the cabinet design.... Few would go as far as Steve did to get things sound perfect and few would have persevered given measurements for the driver. Basically he uses his ears rather than just simulations. I admire that sort of mentality. Similar to how Nelson Pass does things with amps, or Watchara Saladkaew, or Hugh Dean..... Seems a work of genius in a sense though it was commonplace before computers came along

Edited May 15, 2023 by MattyW

[parrasaw]

Your speaker are heavy enough  at 120kgs each(?).

LWA have just posted some secondhand Osborn Grand Monuments for sale.

175kgs each, and the specs are pretty impressive.

 

Back to the Lii Platinums......... it will be very interesting when a few of the Decware designed speakers for the Platinum 10s get out and about.

[MattyW]

Goodness me, but cranked the system up a bit today (I don’toften get to do this) and bass is the best I’ve heard to date. Not just deep but textured. Bass guitar in Billy Joel’s “River of dreams” was incredible. I’ve never heard it like this before. Sometimes something comes on I’d previously thought was a poor recording and there’s so many more instruments there that it sounds like a completely different song. The more I live with these the more impressed I am by them.

It must be noted most of my listening (when my wife is home) is literally as low as my system will go, with -3db dialed in for “Headroom management” in Roon to play quieter yet. At the lowest volume level the lowest octaves are simply not there but one click up on my preamp and it’s just glorious. Another few clicks up to 4 (pre has about 1000 steps) and it’s just glorious. Go to 10 and it’s clearly overpowering my room. Needs more space to breathe.

Anyway, we will build a new home eventually. It will take care of that. It doesn’t hit me in the chest as the new Decware BLH are meant to do, though given how this sounds, who cares right?

 

I guess I can add a sub at some point for low level impact though it won’t be doing anything audible that’s for sure.  Have my eye on the RSL Speedwoofer still.

[MattyW]

Interesting, as speakers have burned in it's been necessary to digitally attenuate the signal by 6dB to retain that low listening level keeps my wife happy. They're getting more efficient with burn in.

[parrasaw]

You have probably already seen it Matt?

A couple of days ago, Decware posted on Youtube - "Build & Test video - New DECWARE Folded Horn Speaker", with the Platinum 10 drivers.

Nearly 5000 views so far.

Impressive.

[MattyW]

23 minutes ago, parrasaw said:

You have probably already seen it Matt?

A couple of days ago, Decware posted on Youtube - "Build & Test video - New DECWARE Folded Horn Speaker", with the Platinum 10 drivers.

Nearly 5000 views so far.

Impressive.

 

Actually, I hadn't seen that. Sounds pretty impressive based on the video. Likely a limitation of the recording though I do believe my big cabinets seem to go deeper in terms of bass. The Decware in comparison seems to hit harder though otherwise more similar than different. Sounds better in person of course 

[muon*]

I couldn't evaluate those Decware speakers with that 'music'

[MattyW]

No, though I'll be having a listen to that music later here. Sounded interesting 

[7502dan]

I'm wondering how would compare to my coral beta 10 in my blh cabinets.Wold the platinum be an upgrade to the corals?

[MattyW]

In short yes….. I believe the Silver-10 would also prove a sonic upgrade from it also from what I’ve read…… The Platinum-10 are in a league of their own 

 

The now discontinued Crystal-10 (3 generations ago) would have been the closest match in terms of sonics and the driver which started it all, the Fadt-10S was straight out reverse engineered from classic Coral drivers.

 

The Coral remain incredle speakers though Lii matched them with their now defunct Crystal series (completely different drivers to the current Crystal-6 which uses a metal cone), and moved in a different direction with Silver and Platinum. Both subjectively surpass the best Coral had to offer. 
 

That said, the Corals are an out of production classic and highly sought after due to their performance and rarity. The Lii can be purchased new today. Whatever you paid for the Corals can be recouped if ever sold. The same can’t be said of any current production driver. If you’re a collector then I doubt anything else will match up to their pedigree though if judged purely on sonics it’s something of a different story.

 

Just what I’ve been able to gather from reading online. I need to be clear, I’ve never heard the Beta-10 in person, nor the Crystal-10 or Silver-10. My own Lii driver progression has been Fast-10S + W15 in OB’s, Silver-6 in BLH, Platinum-10 in bass reflex. I’ve also their little AL-3 3” drivers in little slot port cabinets which have absolutely blown me away for near field listening for my home office setup. Like most Lii drivers the components in front largely determine the end result where their Fast and F series drivers are more forgiving 

Edited June 18, 2023 by MattyW

[7502dan]

Thanks for your thoughts Matty. My second half of the question was if i could repurpose my cabinets. If i buy the platinum I'm pretty sure i can't afford to build new cabinets. Deckware is using blh on his build,and that would be even more expensive. Anyway, thanks again Matty. Cheers, Dan

[MattyW]

You could though you’d be losing bass in a cabinet not designed for the driver. The Beta-10 might well be the better driver….. In a cabinet designed for the Beta-10.

 

My advice is to start an audio savings account and contribute to it each payday. If you can’t hold out that long and buy something else that’s an answer in itself. It all comes down to how badly you want it and whether its a passing desire. I’ve had many such myself so certainly no judgement from me.

 

The strength of the Lii Silver and Platinum drivers are their transparency which is a double edged blade…. It cuts both ways. If you’ve amazing electronics and wiring in front of it they’ll reward you with exceptional sonics. On the other hand if that’s not all buttoned up it can sound abysmal. The Lii Fast and F series are more forgiving in this respect and will perform more like your vintage Beta-10. That said, you still need things done quite well with those also as they’re also very revealing, just not too a fault.  There’s notes of choices, and Zu are popular as well though Lii are a little more musical sounding to my ears….. The right compromise….. For me at least.

Edited June 25, 2023 by MattyW

[Solder blob]

There is a 15 now.

 

Trying to imagine the cabinet for that one, either Matty or the headwrecker variant.

[MattyW]

The range will be 6, 8, 10 and 15”. Is just they only have the resources to build in batches. Apparently demand for the Platinum-10 has exceeded expectations

 

I imagine the 15” is optimised for open baffle though I’ve not looked into it as I’ve had tunnel vision on the 10” driver. The only one I was interested in. Recently I’ve been blown away by their 3” AL-3 drivers though. Far better than they should be for their size or price point.

Edited June 25, 2023 by MattyW

[Solder blob]

Not on the site yet,, but Ali lists them:

 

https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256805434889974.html?src=google&aff_fcid=882818e79d7447cabf27af87144db797-1687738704437-06388-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=882818e79d7447cabf27af87144db797-1687738704437-06388-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=fc34b38328ec45b28bc5a277bb1754e3&afSmartRedirect=y&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2usaMsite

[MattyW]

Might be engineering samples. I wouldn't trust ali purchases for Lii drivers hey....

[muon*]

Also seems too cheap

 

Edit: OK, they have a range of drivers in that sale, and the PT15 are over $4k, that makes more sense than $500.

Edited June 26, 2023 by muon*

[Bryan S]

5 hours ago, MattyW said:

The range will be 6, 8, 10 and 15”. Is just they only have the resources to build in batches. Apparently demand for the Platinum-10 has exceeded expectations

 

I imagine the 15” is optimised for open baffle though I’ve not looked into it as I’ve had tunnel vision on the 10” driver. The only one I was interested in. Recently I’ve been blown away by their 3” AL-3 drivers though. Far better than they should be for their size or price point.

It looks like the PT-15 has way too low a Qt for open baffle, but what really caught my attention on that Ali link is the new coax they've developed! After I abandoned the PT-10 project, I turned my attention to pro audio coax drivers, and landed with a 10" made by Radian in the US. I just built the prototype cab today so I can test the parameters of the drivers and work out the crossover (which should be minimal). If these are a hit I might just have to try a pair of those H1502s!

[Bryan S]

My test box:

 

[MattyW]

3 hours ago, Bryan S said:

It looks like the PT-15 has way too low a Qt for open baffle, but what really caught my attention on that Ali link is the new coax they've developed! After I abandoned the PT-10 project, I turned my attention to pro audio coax drivers, and landed with a 10" made by Radian in the US. I just built the prototype cab today so I can test the parameters of the drivers and work out the crossover (which should be minimal). If these are a hit I might just have to try a pair of those H1502s!

 

The coax drivers are made by Lii Audio which is the original company in China which caters to the domestic market, rather than Lii Song which split off from Lii Audio due to differences of opinion in business practice. Lii Song were the company was supposed to handle all international orders where Lii Audio was to have a purely domestic focus.... I believe out and out copies of the Acoustic Elegance W15 drivers were the nail in the coffin which triggered the split. The Silver and Platinum series drivers were developed from the ground up by Lii Song (despite them having international copyright to the Lii Audio brand) where the F and Fast series are based on Lii Audio designs. Explains the vast difference sound signature of the Silver and Platinum series over earlier drivers.

 

The coax drivers had my attention also but to me they lose the advantage of a fullrange in that a basic crossover is necessary. Then again, some caps can add a very nice colouration that means the sound chain in front needn't cost as much so I guess they've a place. That said, just keep in mind Lii Audio (China) and Lii Song/Audio are actually two separate companies.... Kind of like Audio Note Japan vs Europe? It would be lovely if they'd ditch the Lii Audio site name as it would clear up much of the confusion online.

 

Lii Song are trying to sell internationally and build a reputation based on quality support. Buying off Aliexpress though..... Well, I've never personally had a good experience with Ali sellers when support has been necessary. Might just be me though who knows? I've certainly heard of one or two trying to get support on Lii Audio Aliexpress purchases and getting nowhere. No such issues with Lii Song though.

 

That said, you won't hear as much from Lii Song as they refuse to slag off a competitor as it would only hurt the reputation they're trying to build. Makes sense I guess. I have no such compunction about it though as I'm not affiliated with either of them.

 

3 hours ago, muon* said:

Also seems too cheap

 

Edit: OK, they have a range of drivers in that sale, and the PT15 are over $4k, that makes more sense than $500.

 

Just need to click on the Platinum-15 in the driver choices on the Ali listing, then the price shoots right up 

 

2 hours ago, Bryan S said:

My test box:

 

 

I look forward to your feedback on these. I was taking a look at them around October last year and the pricing on the ones you have are compelling.... I never quite bit the bullet though.

Edited June 26, 2023 by MattyW

[Bryan S]

Good info regarding the two Lii companies, thanks Matty, I had no idea. I agree about the unfortunate need for a crossover, but after I had a look at the crossover for the Klipsch LaScala, with about 18 pieces on the board, I didn't feel so bad

I don't mind a little color from a capacitor, but I'll use VCaps, as clean as it gets I think.