Money no object digital front end

[LFD]

Not to be too much of a nit-picker, but my piece is not a review and AV Hub's post is just the press release re-worked into a news post.

 

Fixed   

[Guest Sime]

Chords DAVE would be included in my dream front end.

[wis97non]

It was a genuine question; keep your knickers on princess!

Ahh, actually I was not upset. I hit the cap button by mistake and was too lazy to to erase and rewrite. Dat's all. Hahahah

 

Oh and yes, I realized it was a genuine quastion, hence why I answered it honestly and fully as you saw. Room pictures:

 

Edited December 4, 2015 by wis97non

[wis97non]

Wis97non and others

Just a quick question.

I wasn't sure if it was correct to ask specific questions in the thread.

I want to improve on my digital end.

I have Dac vitus RD 100 and I was thinking of moving to Vitus SCD 025 MkII basically to use its Dac.

After reading your post on different dacs you have talked about all the dacs I am interested in .

I would to have your opinion about chord Dave as I have been very impressed with chord QB764 I think!

I compared it with my Vitus RD 100 .

Chord was quite bright and punchy and crisp and vitus was not as punchy and sparkly but had a very Mystic liquid vocals but not much punch and crisp sound stage .

I am looking at either upgrading to use the dac of vitus SCD 025.

But chord Dave interest me a lot.

You talked very high of lampizator gold 7?

I have compared lampizator 4 in my system it was again more live and airy than vitus but I felt lost bit of control on vocals in my system and vitus was more precise .

Another option is reference Barkley dac.

Accuphase interest me as well .

I have a feel you have good experience so suggest or comment about your preference as I don't think I can audition all these expensive equipment.

I would appreciate your comments.

First off, I am no guru and have my subjective preferences like everyone else.

 

Lampizator series 7 (Lite7, Big7 and Golden Gate) are fundamentally different to the Level 4. The 7 series use big bottle Directly Heated Triodes, like 45, 300b, 101d, 2a3, 6a3, VT-52, VT68,PX-04, KR242, etc. Any 4 pin DHT will work without a base adapter. There is a switch in the single ended Dacs to change the circuit optimization from 1 group to the other. The L4 uses small signal tubes. Furthermore, the DSD is  "chipless" design (still quite unique in the Dac world) and the PCM has recently switched o R2R Ladder with FPGA control and is getting rave user feedback for increased resolution and dynamics, though certain tubes like the KR242 increase the dynamics of the Big7 with the older PCM implemenation as well.  Lampi sound is amazing, especially the DHT Dacs and the DSD is divine. Upsampling PCM to DSD256 with a highend computer server in Core Mode with Bughead Emperor on the Golden Gate is the finest digital I hae ever heard so far and gets into reel to reel territory. IMHO.

 

The Dave I heard at the show sounded superb, but it was still a very ate stage prototype and Rob Watts says the commercial version will be even slightly better. I dont like the Hugo at all, I prefer my Qute EX with LPSU, so when I give a thumbs up to the DAVE, I think that means something. I only heard PCM, so not sure if DAVE brings Chord DSD up to world class. All Chords lagged on DSD in my experience so far. The tech specs on the DAVE are outstanding and my demo listening was very positive, so i expect good things...unlike with my experience with Hugo.

 

I never heard any Vitus Dacs, so cant comment there.

 

Try to demo as much as possible, even at shows to get a handle on YOUR tastes, as that is all that matters in the end.

[Happy]

Just a Q are the tube DACs employ the tubes like some sort of tube buffer? What do they do?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GAM]

Wis97non

Thanks for such prompt and detail answer.

With regard to DHT DACS I recently had a chance to listen to DHT amplifier (VIVA ) and quite impressed.

[Andrew S.]

Gam

You can buy a Lampi off Lukasz. He is as unimpressed with his distributor here as I was. But it's hard work getting replies from him. I gave up in the end.

I'd recommend auditioning as many candidates as you can and ask for the shortlist of one or two to demo in your system.. Lots of $$ to make a mistake with.

[Galactic Soap]

Gam

You can buy a Lampi off Lukasz. He is as unimpressed with his distributor here as I was. But it's hard work getting replies from him. I gave up in the end.

I'd recommend auditioning as many candidates as you can and ask for the shortlist of one or two to demo in your system.. Lots of $$ to make a mistake with.

 

Couldn't agree more, and while it goes without saying i.e. listening before buying it's something I've neglected to do in the past so worth mentioning.

 

When it comes to this sort of level i.e. anything north of $15K for a digital front end (tentatively list that price point given we also have the $90K Select II in this discussion) you're dealing with sonic signatures that can contrast dramatically in the right system. This is the main reason I went with my Analog DAC when faced with the same sort of scenario a year ago, back then quite a few DAC's were on the audition list but only the MSB and Chord Hugo TT were options for in home auditions. I played it safe, organised for an in home trial of the Analog DAC and have been rewarded in spades. I think the Dave maybe available for in home audition as well (subject to the full amount being paid as a sort of holding deposit which is fair enough). The only other DAC I bought without an in home trial was my Psavane which I heard on a system with exactly the same components I have at home.

 

@@GAM - What does the rest of your system consist of, and what type of music do you usually listen to?

 

@@wis97non - Nice acquisition re: the Golden Gate. There's a few heavy hitters on WBF running the Golden Gate with the Trinity, they must contrast enough to warrant both in a system, would love to hear one. How long was the total turn around time from purchase to receipt?

 

@@zipstartcanoe - Congrats, wow, I'm speechless: MSB Select II. On your system that would be just the magic. This forum never ceases to amaze me.

 

Lastly, what about the TotalDac D1 12 stack. I've seen it mentioned on many a forum when talking about cost no object digital? Apparently it's up there with the Trinity.

 

Cheers,

Soapy

Edited December 4, 2015 by Galactic Soap

[wis97non]

Just a Q are the tube DACs employ the tubes like some sort of tube buffer? What do they do?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Active preamp stage.

[wis97non]

Couldn't agree more, and while it goes without saying i.e. listening before buying it's something I've neglected to do in the past so worth mentioning.

 

@@GAM - What does the rest of your system consist of, and what type of music do you usually listen to?

 

@@wis97non - Nice acquisition re: the Golden Gate. There's a few heavy hitters on WBF running the Golden Gate with the Trinity, they must contrast enough to warrant both in a system, would love to hear one. How long was the total turn around time from purchase to receipt?

 

@@zipstartcanoe - Congrats, wow, I'm speechless: MSB Select II. On your system that would be just the magic. This forum never ceases to amaze me.

 

Lastly, what about the TotalDac D1 12 stack. I've seen it mentioned on many a forum when talking about cost no object digital? Apparently it's up there with the Trinity.

 

Cheers,

Soapy

To me the TotalDac is not as good as even the Big7, but I have only heard one model. The Lampi PSU is better IMHO. To each his own opinion though.

 

Yes, I am in contact with the "heavy hitters" as one  Audiocrack is a pal and I have been to his house and have an open invit to return. His speakers are crazy good, I am told…Tidal L'Assoluta.

Trinty is PCM only and Lampi has both PCM and DSD. The recent change to PCM has taken that closer to the chipless DSD. R2R ladder with FPGA control.

 

My GG took about 2 weeks to arrive, but I am in Europe (Switz). Mine is SE, so less delay that Balanced…which was more popular and had a temporary chassis shortage since solved.

 

The real beauty (and curse) of the level 7 Lampis are the tube fanaticism generated. I now have 10 pairs of DHT output tubes and about 13 rectifiers. Fortunately I got most of mine cheap and used locally. As the lampi is a gentle preamp circuit, even very weak tubes will work for  a couple years and medium ones for 10 years. Changing tube combinations have GREAT impact on the presentation and is great fun. Also allows one to match tube to music genres!

 

The GG is a stunning Dac when broken in and they take MONTHS to reach peak. Audiocrack finally got his server to work today and when we spoke he was grinning from ear to ear as his SECOND system is now sounding divine (and he does not yet have bespoke tubes like the Elrog 300B or EML Anniversary globe 45 yet. Mike Lavigne just got teh Elrogs and is now in love…he is Balanced DSD only! Nothing in digital sounds like Lampi DSD and with on the fly upconversion to DSD256 by HQP (or Bughead Emperor) and chipless playback….I cant ask for more!

Edited December 4, 2015 by wis97non

[GAM]

galactic soap

 that a very good advice of getting home  demo and you  are right it might be possible for DAVE but might not be possible for lampi or  Berkley reference .

Another important info is I will be getting my new speakers Dynaudio Evidence Master around  mid december( christmas gift) and that will be the focus of my system to improve their performance.

My pre/dac is vitus RD100

Power amp  Vitus RS100

Source is audio  file  and video fies in HDD ,attached to cambridge audio cxu through usb  and coax from there into  vitus dac and pre.

 

wis97non

I did not realise you are in Switzerland and some time I feel how lucky we are in these time to have this option to have chat around all over the world.
 

[Andrew S.]

Gam

SImon (TBO) on SNA has Berkeley Reference if you wanted to listen to that. Very approachable. 

 

If you don't have much DSD, then it might be worth thinking about a decent PCM converter: Victor's Vitus is very good, now for sale in the classifieds.

 

I didn't ask - what server are you using?

 

Cheers

[GAM]

andrew

 I have no server, sold my aurender XL100  not long ago and using HDD attached to cambridge audio cxu and take coax out from Cambridge audio into vitus RD 100.

I have already had word with him Simon(TBO) and he encouraged me to go for Berkley reference but i didn t have the heart to ask him for have a listen . Its some time not easy  and again unless you put things in your own system its hard to find synergy of that equipment with your system.

I have been in touch with victor as well and he is BIG help and just upgrading that vitus scd  025 mk I to vitus scd 025 mk II is lot of money and I have been told vitus scd 025 mKII is significant improvment.

So then i thought if its going to get around figure of 20K why not go for DAC.

I dont know how DAC of vitus scd025 mkII compare to berkley reference .But at the same time I feel it would be easier to sell berkley reference dac than vitus scd025 MKII.

I am getting things ready for my new speakers DYNAUDIO EVIDENCE MASTER

I just had a call with retailer for berkley reference and he advised to have a listen to moon audio 780 d,

I dont know much about moond audio dacs

any one knows about them.

cheers

Edited December 5, 2015 by GAM

[Andrew S.]

Well Ihave never heard a dealer say a newer model wasn't much better than the one it replaced. If I was buying a CD spinner I would buy a Pathos Endorphin. Most natural sounding one I have heard. About 5 k second hand in Europe.

My own view is the server is half the equation especially via USB, less so with FireWire and of course the Ravenna Ethernet protocol should make all that redundant with my Nadac.

Why don't you just delay on the day/ CD player side, and enjoy your Evidence Masters - congratulations incidentally. Some serious high fi there.

Cheers

[jeromelang]

Which other dacs qualify as "chipless dac"?

[GAM]

I guess Andrew you are right let the dust settle down and this holiday season is over and play with my speakers and might not even feel anything missing hope could go on without doing any further upgrade for the time being.

[a.dent]

galactic soap

 that a very good advice of getting home  demo and you  are right it might be possible for DAVE but might not be possible for lampi or  Berkley reference .

Another important info is I will be getting my new speakers Dynaudio Evidence Master around  mid december( christmas gift) and that will be the focus of my system to improve their performance.

My pre/dac is vitus RD100

Power amp  Vitus RS100

Source is audio  file  and video fies in HDD ,attached to cambridge audio cxu through usb  and coax from there into  vitus dac and pre.

 

wis97non

I did not realise you are in Switzerland and some time I feel how lucky we are in these time to have this option to have chat around all over the world.

 

 

Hi GAM,

 

I'm very interested in your research. Please update us about how your DAC search proceeds.

 

I have the Vitus RDC-101 and RI-100. When I purchased them I was tossing up buying the RD-100 and RS-100 v what I ended up with. The SACD and DSD advantage of the RCD-101 won me over in the end.

 

I haven't compared many hi-end DACs but I do own a Klein DAC. Obviously significantly outclassed by the Vitus but a great DAC none the less.

 

Please update us on the Evidence Masters as well.

 

Cheers

 

Andrew 

Edited December 5, 2015 by a.dent

[GAM]

I wasn't even aware of RCD 101 when I bought my vitus dac/pre and power amp.

Vitus journey all started with when I went to a retailer to have a listen to speakers called Bird 2.

And there I listened to Dynaudios evidence temptation with vitus RCD 100 and RI100.

And I was gobsmacked and I could not understand how good things can be and there I decided to go for vitus .

And now by luck I got a chance to get Evidence master.

I probably will go for Berkley reference and then I will take it to retailers to compare it with Dave or any other.

I have already called the retailer and enquired about the price and mode of payment and after placing an order it could take six month for the dac to come .

I will update on Dynaudios.

Can't wait.

Never even dreamt.

[nevillekapadia]

Andrew, congrats on your new toy. I heard it when I met Philip O'Hanlon in Munich, and they had just launched it. He then became the NA dealer for it.

 

In my experience, the 4 Dac's I have heard and would love to have any of them would be...

 

MSB Select

dCS Vivaldi

Trinity

Nagra HD

 

I haven't had a chance to listen to the Lampi GG. But having spent a few days with Mike Lavigne and hearing his system this year, I would think that the GG must be great on DSD for him to have kept it. But the fact that he has the Trinity for PCM, shows that his listening preference is different for both formats.

 

Andrew, would like to know how the A/D for the Nadac works and how easy the software is for conversion. I was quite bamboozled with HAPI software when I was at Bruce Brown's place.

 

Cheers,

Neville 

[GAM]

Neville

Have you had a chance to listen to Berkley reference.

Last time we had a chat your were going overseas.

Are you back.

[wis97non]

Andrew, congrats on your new toy. I heard it when I met Philip O'Hanlon in Munich, and they had just launched it. He then became the NA dealer for it.

 

In my experience, the 4 Dac's I have heard and would love to have any of them would be...

 

MSB Select

dCS Vivaldi

Trinity

Nagra HD

 

I haven't had a chance to listen to the Lampi GG. But having spent a few days with Mike Lavigne and hearing his system this year, I would think that the GG must be great on DSD for him to have kept it. But the fact that he has the Trinity for PCM, shows that his listening preference is different for both formats.

 

Andrew, would like to know how the A/D for the Nadac works and how easy the software is for conversion. I was quite bamboozled with HAPI software when I was at Bruce Brown's place.

 

Cheers,

Neville 

I heard the Nagra in Sept at the house of the Stenheim CEO…lovely!  I need to bring my GG there once to hear it thru his Ref Statement speakers.

[wis97non]

Which other dacs qualify as "chipless dac"?

FPGA dacs like chord/psaudio direct stream and LAMPI DSD.

 

none use commercial chips for conversion.

[nevillekapadia]

Neville

Have you had a chance to listen to Berkley reference.

Last time we had a chat your were going overseas.

Are you back.

No I did not get a chance to hear the Berkley reference.

[Andrew S.]

Hi Neville,

 

Nadac is just a DA.  

 

Set up is very consumer. You just plug their driver into whatever sw you want to use. Eg Roon. Although they (Merging) have written their own (Emotion), which you get a copy of. 

 

I'll bring it over when I get it run in, after Edgar has a lend of it for a review. You are welcome to borrow it for a week if you want.

 

The Mytek Manhattan is really very good as well, although a level or two down, I am sure, from the dacs being mentioned here. 

 

Cheers

Edited December 5, 2015 by Tom.Stopforth

[analog brother]

neville - what are your thoughts regarding the trinity dac?