xtiva2000 Posted January 17, 2023 Posted January 17, 2023 Hi from a new vinyl listener .... I am trying to get back to Vinyl from listening to digital, but wasn't able to enjoy it due to the crackling noise which bothered me too much. Now, this issue was sorted after cleaning the vinyl using a vacuum cleaner, Pro-ject VC-S2, I can finally enjoy this wonderful world of vinyl. As I can now enjoy it, I am itching to improve this somewhat.. .... I am looking to improve clarity and soundstage mostly, and was hoping I could get some recommendations on good MM cartridges, budget is around $1000. But I am not even sure if this is a good idea as I only have a budget entry-level turntable and phono stage. Only looking for MM cartridge as I was told by the manufacturer MC cartridge wasn't recommended on my turntable. I currently have Music Hall Classic turntable with AT VM520 cartridge and Limetree Phono 2 phono stage. Thanks
xtiva2000 Posted January 17, 2023 Author Posted January 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, dwbasement said: Mp300, mp500, or 2m black Oh great thanks will have a look at them thanks Dennis
mkaramazov Posted January 17, 2023 Posted January 17, 2023 7 hours ago, xtiva2000 said: I currently have Music Hall Classic turntable with AT VM520 cartridge and Limetree Phono 2 phono stage. An instant upgrade would be to buy the microline stylus for your existing cartridge - the replacement is model VMN40ML . You should be able to pick this up for about AUD $350. This budget solution will immediately place your existing cartridge within the field of top MMs . Assuming your current cartridge is set up properly, you won't need to fiddle around with cartridge alignment etc, just replace the stylus and you will be set. You can use the money you saved towards other upgrades. 4
xtiva2000 Posted January 17, 2023 Author Posted January 17, 2023 20 minutes ago, mkaramazov said: replacement is model VMN40ML Wow awesome!! Thanks for the advise. 1
cafe latte Posted January 17, 2023 Posted January 17, 2023 9 hours ago, xtiva2000 said: Hi from a new vinyl listener .... I am trying to get back to Vinyl from listening to digital, but wasn't able to enjoy it due to the crackling noise which bothered me too much. Now, this issue was sorted after cleaning the vinyl using a vacuum cleaner, Pro-ject VC-S2, I can finally enjoy this wonderful world of vinyl. As I can now enjoy it, I am itching to improve this somewhat.. .... I am looking to improve clarity and soundstage mostly, and was hoping I could get some recommendations on good MM cartridges, budget is around $1000. But I am not even sure if this is a good idea as I only have a budget entry-level turntable and phono stage. Only looking for MM cartridge as I was told by the manufacturer MC cartridge wasn't recommended on my turntable. I currently have Music Hall Classic turntable with AT VM520 cartridge and Limetree Phono 2 phono stage. Thanks MI which is like MM but often better square wave and lower moving mass. OPus 3 is an absolute bargain. Chris
TemaadAudio Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 Hi, I do not know your T/T, but would ask the question , Can you adjust the arm height up or down. If not you are stuck with Elliptical MM or MC cartridges. The reason is that all cart shigher qual than Ellip require the SRA (stylus rake angle) to be set a roughly 92 deg's. Whereas Elliptical & Conical do not. The 2nd thing is when you choose a cart, you need to make sure it is compatible with the arm. So high compliance cart (your current cart) goes with a light Eff Mass arm. So of the ones listed so far I would say say the Nagoka MP30 or 300 would be a good choice, as it has a Elliptical stylus. Cheers
aussievintage Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 18 hours ago, xtiva2000 said: currently have Music Hall Classic turntable with AT VM520 cartridge 10 hours ago, mkaramazov said: An instant upgrade would be to buy the microline stylus for your existing cartridge - the replacement is model VMN40ML . You should be able to pick this up for about AUD $350. This budget solution will immediately place your existing cartridge within the field of top MMs . Assuming your current cartridge is set up properly, you won't need to fiddle around with cartridge alignment etc, just replace the stylus and you will be set. You can use the money you saved towards other upgrades. I would thoroughly recommend this. Once you go microline, you'll never regret it. Spend the rest of the money on more records
andrewinbriz Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 You don't mention what type of music you listen to (some carts are better with some styles of music). As much as you might want to (understandably, you want 'improvement', we all look for that), I would not spend $1000 on a cart with your current turntable and phono preamp. You will see some improvement with the suggestions, and you can move the cart onto a better turntable, but to you it might not be worth the $1000. Cart manufacturers generally have a 'house sound', which reflects their general engineering choices and listening goals. So I personally wouldn't, say, put an improved stylus on the AT (don't get me wrong, it is a valid and justifiable recommendation, but you know the AT sound). I personally would experiment with the sound of a lower priced cart of different manufacturers with the system you currently have. Say you like the sound of a $250 MP-110, then by all means spend the $650 on a MP-300). Whatever you do, cart mass should be consistent with tonearm specifications, and the cart installed correctly. And there is a 'burn in' period. I personally would experiment with lower priced carts in the current system (begged, borrowed, or bought). 1
xtiva2000 Posted January 18, 2023 Author Posted January 18, 2023 14 minutes ago, TemaadAudio said: Hi, I do not know your T/T, but would ask the question , Can you adjust the arm height up or down. If not you are stuck with Elliptical MM or MC cartridges. The reason is that all cart shigher qual than Ellip require the SRA (stylus rake angle) to be set a roughly 92 deg's. Whereas Elliptical & Conical do not. The 2nd thing is when you choose a cart, you need to make sure it is compatible with the arm. So high compliance cart (your current cart) goes with a light Eff Mass arm. So of the ones listed so far I would say say the Nagoka MP30 or 300 would be a good choice, as it has a Elliptical stylus. Cheers Oh thanks for the reply. Yeah my turntable doesn't have VTL. Even currently cart is a little off when checking it today... just got the tool to measure the VTL yesterday... when I got the current one, all I was looking for from the turntable was the one with auto lift, removable headshell and dial type anti skate setting... didn't even know what VTL was back then... 40 minutes ago, aussievintage said: Once you go microline, you'll never regret it. Oh thanks for the information.
xtiva2000 Posted January 18, 2023 Author Posted January 18, 2023 16 minutes ago, andrewinbriz said: You don't mention what type of music you listen to (some carts are better with some styles of music). As much as you might want to (understandably, you want 'improvement', we all look for that), I would not spend $1000 on a cart with your current turntable and phono preamp. You will see some improvement with the suggestions, and you can move the cart onto a better turntable, but to you it might not be worth the $1000. Cart manufacturers generally have a 'house sound', which reflects their general engineering choices and listening goals. So I personally wouldn't, say, put an improved stylus on the AT (don't get me wrong, it is a valid and justifiable recommendation, but you know the AT sound). I personally would experiment with the sound of a lower priced cart of different manufacturers with the system you currently have. Say you like the sound of a $250 MP-110, then by all means spend the $650 on a MP-300). Whatever you do, cart mass should be consistent with tonearm specifications, and the cart installed correctly. And there is a 'burn in' period. I personally would experiment with lower priced carts in the current system (begged, borrowed, or bought). Oh, thanks for the reply. I listen mostly to classical music, actually, all my LPs are classical music. I do listen to other genres digitally but for LP I only have Classical music. As this is a budget table, don't think it has those tonearm specifications. But it came with a 5.7g cartridge with a height of 15.9mm (i measured it today) Below is the extract about the cartridge and tonearm... Thanks.
aussievintage Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 33 minutes ago, xtiva2000 said: As this is a budget table, don't think it has those tonearm specifications. But it came with a 5.7g cartridge with a height of 15.9mm (i measured it today) If the current cartridge is working well, and you like the sound, and just want to improve "clarity and soundstage" as you said, then that's all the more reason to just upgrade to a better stylus. The ML stylus will improve clarity and detail tremendously over an elliptical (assuming that's what you currently have in it). There are ways to alter the SRA if the arm is not adjustable, such as changing mat thickness, or using shims in the headshell. I would try it first before getting to obsessed over it. 1
mkaramazov Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 27 minutes ago, aussievintage said: If the current cartridge is working well, and you like the sound, and just want to improve "clarity and soundstage" as you said, then that's all the more reason to just upgrade to a better stylus. The ML stylus will improve clarity and detail tremendously over an elliptical (assuming that's what you currently have in it). There are ways to alter the SRA if the arm is not adjustable, such as changing mat thickness, or using shims in the headshell. I would try it first before getting to obsessed over it. I completely agree with this - lots of tweaks available, even if you arm doesn't adjust for VTA. You already have a vacuum cleaner. You are likely to be blown away by what the ML stylus will do for your existing collection of classical music. 2
xtiva2000 Posted January 18, 2023 Author Posted January 18, 2023 49 minutes ago, aussievintage said: using shims in the headshell. Yeah, I just put 2 of those plastic shims but looks like it is still a little off... or maybe I am not measuring it properly. I actually ordered a thicker cork matt, I ordered it not because of VTL but to reduce static.. but hopefully, that will help a little with the adjustment. 19 minutes ago, mkaramazov said: You already have a vacuum cleaner. You are likely to be blown away by what the ML stylus Yes, this vacuum has made so much difference in the enjoyment of vinyl. Coming from digital music, wasn't able to get over those crackling noises but with the vacuum, most of those have gone away and I was able to enjoy the analog sound from the vinyl. It is not that I am not enjoying it, I am now very much enjoying it, but it is more that wanted to experiment with other cartridges to bring out the best... but now I realized that replacing the cartridge isn't very plug-and-play like the digital chain... Thanks once again for all the great input on this topic!!! Have learned so much and also realized that I need to do some more research. Might upgrade the turntable before getting a new cartridge ... new one will definitely have VTL, and anti-skate adjustment.
aussievintage Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, xtiva2000 said: Yeah, I just put 2 of those plastic shims but looks like it is still a little off... or maybe I am not measuring it properly. I actually ordered a thicker cork matt, I ordered it not because of VTL but to reduce static.. but hopefully, that will help a little with the adjustment. Aha - someone else with a BUM gauge like mine Edited January 18, 2023 by aussievintage 2
stevoz Posted January 19, 2023 Posted January 19, 2023 On 18/01/2023 at 8:23 AM, cafe latte said: MI which is like MM but often better square wave and lower moving mass. OPus 3 is an absolute bargain. Chris Price is really good. I see the Opus 3 is comes in both low and high output. Would you recommend one over the other or are they much of a muchness?
cafe latte Posted January 19, 2023 Posted January 19, 2023 1 hour ago, stevoz said: Price is really good. I see the Opus 3 is comes in both low and high output. Would you recommend one over the other or are they much of a muchness? They both sound very good indeed, but go thr low output if you have the gain. Chris 1
xtiva2000 Posted January 19, 2023 Author Posted January 19, 2023 Looks like my cartridge way off in terms of VTA... Below photo is using 2 mats, original and the newly purchased cork mat... Or may I am not meauring VTA correctly?
cafe latte Posted January 19, 2023 Posted January 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, xtiva2000 said: Looks like my cartridge way off in terms of VTA... Below photo is using 2 mats, original and the newly purchased cork mat... Or may I am not meauring VTA correctly? The underside of the headshell ie the flat surface where the cart is mounted is what you need to check. Very often the arm is tail up and the underside of the headshell is level. This is all assuming the stylus diamond is mounted correctly and many factory are not. Chris 1
Jebediah Posted January 19, 2023 Posted January 19, 2023 If I could chime in as someone who has come from an entry level tt like the OP's (mine was a Project Debut Carbon), I too was looking to improve SQ via a cartridge upgrade. After much deliberation and research, often reading advice warning that it wasn't worth it, I invested in a 2M Bronze. The cartridge was similar price to the table alone, so it was a bit of a gamble. In the end though I had no regrets whatsoever. The difference in quality over the factory installed OM10 was quite remarkable, to my ears anyway, and in my mind justified the expense. So the advice to upgrade the stylus, as a newbie, was good advice, IMO 1 1
aussievintage Posted January 19, 2023 Posted January 19, 2023 27 minutes ago, xtiva2000 said: Or may I am not meauring VTA correctly? A level armtube is only an approximation. However, how accurate do you need to be? Setting different tracking forces causes the stylus suspension to deflect, causing the actual tracking angle to change. Also, plenty of times, people purposely set their arm off-level. Common advice for some AT carts is to set the arm tail-down slightly. In the end, set it so it sounds good to you and do not lose any sleep. 2
xtiva2000 Posted January 20, 2023 Author Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, cafe latte said: underside of the headshell ie the flat surface where the cart is mounted is what you need to check. Very often the arm is tail up and the Oh great thanks let me measure it again... 35 minutes ago, aussievintage said: However, how accurate do you need to be I am not sure, to tell you the truth...new to this turntable and just found out about the VTA... some suggested it was crucial... hence was looking it...
dwbasement Posted January 20, 2023 Posted January 20, 2023 I would consider upgrade the tt then the phono, cartridge can be keep for the new tt so you can still use it once you upgraded your tt. It all depend on your budget and timing. Also may be try a two piece mat as well for standard and 180g vinyl.
xtiva2000 Posted January 20, 2023 Author Posted January 20, 2023 17 minutes ago, dwbasement said: I would consider upgrade the tt then the phono, cartridge can be keep for the new tt so you can still use it once you upgraded your tt. It all depend on your budget and timing. Also may be try a two piece mat as well for standard and 180g vinyl. Hey Man, Yeah, I am leaning toward an upgrade to TT. Time frame, thinking about 3 ~ 6 months, but haven't really thought about the budget yet but would like to get something that I can keep for long 1
stevoz Posted January 20, 2023 Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, aussievintage said: A level armtube is only an approximation. However, how accurate do you need to be? Setting different tracking forces causes the stylus suspension to deflect, causing the actual tracking angle to change. Also, plenty of times, people purposely set their arm off-level. Common advice for some AT carts is to set the arm tail-down slightly. .....and for some Garrots, tail up. Edited January 20, 2023 by stevoz 2
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