How do we record and view free-to-air TV shows these days?

[frednork]

A different perspective from me would be this.

 

Have come from Topfields to xbmc to Kodi on a nuc with dual tuners.  We still have an old plasma and 5 year old LED. The 5 year old LED has pretty much everything we need in terms of watching stuff off the tv on catchup and can also stream from the media server which is just the router with a HD attached to it. It really does everything we need and its not a super fancy tv either. It also runs our netflix, and other streaming services. The old plasma has none of this and just has a google tv attached to it. the GTV has all the catchup tv and streaming services as well. Kodi nuc is no longer used. Everyone can use these methods easily and noone has complained.

 

I would suggest you try and see if catchup tv does what you need and just use the dvd thing if/ when it doesnt.

[emesbee]

The USB hard drive attached to my TV is almost full. I haven't even watched most of what I've recorded, and probably won't get around to doing so. Also, I find there is not a lot on free to air TV that I'm interested in these days, and what there is I can usually watch on catch up TV anyway via the Fetch mini.

 

[bob_m_54]

3 hours ago, emesbee said:

The USB hard drive attached to my TV is almost full. I haven't even watched most of what I've recorded, and probably won't get around to doing so. Also, I find there is not a lot on free to air TV that I'm interested in these days, and what there is I can usually watch on catch up TV anyway via the Fetch mini.

 

And yet, I have two Fetch maxis, and a shipload of stuff recorded on both of them, but I still, sometimes revert to watching a series on ketchup... It's sortof like.. is it, or will it still be available on ketchup.. or But I have EPs 1-6 recorded, and there are still two more to go....

 

I just record any new series and if there is something that looks good on catchup, that I have missed the first couple of EPs, I binge on Catchup... (or ketchup. )

[groovem]

I'm still using my Beyonwiz U4, even though there's a new model available. Don't forget that the broadcasting standards haven't changed and the maximum broadcast resolution is 1080i - there are no 4K free to air broadcasts in Australia so if you have a device that can record and playback in 1080i then that is going to continue to be good.

[Pete D]

My Fetch TV Mighty updated yesterday and I hate the new interface with a passion. I have used fetch for many years now and enjoyed it but now you have to go through more menus to do the basic stuff.

[Niktech]

4 hours ago, Pete D said:

My Fetch TV Mighty updated yesterday and I hate the new interface with a passion. I have used fetch for many years now and enjoyed it but now you have to go through more menus to do the basic stuff.

Yeah, it’s awful. My Fetch Mighty and Mini updated on the ~ 19/4. I looked at the new UI and then turned both devices off, and I’ve not turned them on since. I also have an Apple TV 4K with the Binge app installed, and that has a few of the same linear channels as the Fetch tv packs plus a few extras, it’s UI is much better.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Niktech

[bob_m_54]

17 hours ago, Pete D said:

My Fetch TV Mighty updated yesterday and I hate the new interface with a passion. I have used fetch for many years now and enjoyed it but now you have to go through more menus to do the basic stuff.

Yes I agree. It has definitely changed for the worse ,and has some odd glitches. One of which is when scrolling through recordings, and you delete an entry, the info panel doesn't update when you scroll through the rest of the recordings. "Media Hub" is now under Apps->Music & More..  If you have two Maxis, the little box icon that lets you know a recording is on the other Maxi, is no longer present..

[FNQ Outcast]

On 29/04/2023 at 3:31 PM, Pete D said:

My Fetch TV Mighty updated yesterday and I hate the new interface with a passion. I have used fetch for many years now and enjoyed it but now you have to go through more menus to do the basic stuff.

Glad (not really) I'm not the only one who hates it... way less intuitive, stuff is buried in menus several layers deep... took me quite a while to even find where they had hidden 'my media hub' so I could access movies from my attached hard drive...

 

Seems to require more button pushes to watch a recording than it used to (okay, first world problem I know) but, you'd think an 'upgrade' to the OS would actually be a good thing... but, its not!!

 

Also noticed that movies on my HDD that played just fine with all the functions (stop, pause, ff, rewind) working perfectly now, it seems to struggle & on some larger files you can't actually pause of stop the movie anymore & requires significant phaff around to end something you've been watching...

 

Is there a way to revert it back to the old firmware?

[davewantsmoore]

On 09/03/2023 at 1:26 PM, BioBrian said:

I wasn't picking on Fetch; it's just that in this context I see the compulsory internet connection to them as an unnecessary risk and a cheeky intrusion, which is enough to cause me to look elsewhere.

Their business model is based on people paying for content that comes into the box via the internet.

[BioBrian]

A neighbour has a Panasonic Blu-ray player that can also record 2 programs of FTA at once, time-shift, and play a recorded program while recording others. It has no need of internet connection to work.

 

My awfully 'smart' TV can record a program to external SSD, but I have to watch it as well, or put it into standby. Single program only - not very 'today'.

 

My reason for not buying a Panasonic has been that I don't need another BR player, but it looks like the best option I've seen so far.

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by BioBrian
facts

[emesbee]

On 29/04/2023 at 3:01 PM, Pete D said:

My Fetch TV Mighty updated yesterday and I hate the new interface with a passion. I have used fetch for many years now and enjoyed it but now you have to go through more menus to do the basic stuff.

 

My Fetch TV Mini updated itself recently too. The new interface on the Mini doesn't look a lot different to before. Some minor repositioning on the screen and a few other small changes. Slightly better if anything, a bit more intuitive in some ways, but nothing major (on the Mini that is, I can't speak for the Mighty as I haven't used one).

 

[bob_m_54]

4 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

Their business model is based on people paying for content that comes into the box via the internet.

Not only that, but their Electronic Program Guide is provided via the net. So if you don't have an internet connection, you can't set up any programmed recording.

[bob_m_54]

2 hours ago, emesbee said:

 

My Fetch TV Mini updated itself recently too. The new interface on the Mini doesn't look a lot different to before. Some minor repositioning on the screen and a few other small changes. Slightly better if anything, a bit more intuitive in some ways, but nothing major (on the Mini that is, I can't speak for the Mighty as I haven't used one).

 

The Mini is the same as the Mighty..

[emesbee]

2 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said:

The Mini is the same as the Mighty..

Hm, ok. In that case I guess its YMMV.

 

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, bob_m_54 said:

Not only that, but their Electronic Program Guide is provided via the net. So if you don't have an internet connection, you can't set up any programmed recording.

They do also get guide data over the air (EPG/CRID) ... (but yes, they do also have their own extra guide data) ... so it could work without the network for that.  The true reason (as well as the $1 activation fee) is to make it "easy" for users to pay for content like movies and extra channels.

 

It's been nearly 8 years since I threw the antenna in the bin.... and I think this is the best approach for "what to do about FTA".   

 

[BioBrian]

Some are very lucky to have access to cheap, fast, reliable internet (until it fails again, then we're all stuffed). Others have to put up with very unreliable, slow and expensive internet. Here it cuts out if there's a cloud, the power goes off, it rains, the wind blows, there's smoke, or 'they' decide to do yet more maintenance.

 

Security is part of comfort and enjoyment. Knowing the   ......   internet will probably clap out yet again is a strong disincentive to rely on it (eg inviting friends round to watch a movie would be a sick joke in this region).

 

That makes the F in FTA very attractive, and if it supplies the only channels worth watching, even better.

 

(I have some antennae on the scrap heap too - no way would a 3 m monster fit in any bin - I even paid for the extra metre to get ABC FM at one stage - fail!).

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by BioBrian

[Pete D]

6 hours ago, emesbee said:

 

My Fetch TV Mini updated itself recently too. The new interface on the Mini doesn't look a lot different to before. Some minor repositioning on the screen and a few other small changes. Slightly better if anything, a bit more intuitive in some ways, but nothing major (on the Mini that is, I can't speak for the Mighty as I haven't used one).

 

I only use Fetch to watch recorded tv (I only watch recorded tv so I can fast forward through the ads)

Which is now buried an extra layer deep and uses different button so there goes the muscle memory. Any streaming is through an Apple TV.

[bob_m_54]

4 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

They do also get guide data over the air (EPG/CRID) ... (but yes, they do also have their own extra guide data) ... so it could work without the network for that.  The true reason (as well as the $1 activation fee) is to make it "easy" for users to pay for content like movies and extra channels.

 

It's been nearly 8 years since I threw the antenna in the bin.... and I think this is the best approach for "what to do about FTA".   

 

Actually I'm pretty sure that Fetch only uses the internet supplied EPG. When we lost out NBN connection box for a week, the Fetch was still working, but after a day or so the EPG had no information. It seems that Fetch downloads the EPG for x number of days and updates when information is added or program times change.

[davewantsmoore]

13 hours ago, bob_m_54 said:

Actually I'm pretty sure that Fetch only uses the internet supplied EPG. When we lost out NBN connection box for a week, the Fetch was still working, but after a day or so the EPG had no information.

Yes,  that's right... but it does also use the broadcasted data to augment the fetch provided data (the point being that it could work without the internet, if fetch allowed it to).    The real reason they require the box to be internet connected, is so they can say .... "hey you! look! we have movies, and we have your payment info.... just click here".

[davewantsmoore]

16 hours ago, BioBrian said:

Here it cuts out if there's a cloud, the power goes off, it rains, the wind blows, there's smoke, or 'they' decide to do yet more maintenance.

Have you checked Optus 4G coverage.   There's a few dead spots your way, but 4G looke definitely worth investigating.... even if it needs an antenna installed, it might not break the bank.

 

You can get 25mbps down and 2mbps up for $60 a month with unlimited data.

 

 

You're supposed to (apparently) have NBN 4G at your place? .... is that what you're having trouble with?

[BioBrian]

2 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

 There's a few dead spots your way

 

Yeah! You meant 'spots', didn't you? That too.

 

The NBN has a local Fixed Wireless tower which gives my internet. 12 mbps in theory (and what I pay $50/month for), but somewhere between that and Zero in reality. Due to complaints, they built it down a gully instead of on a hill, so there's a ridge with ever-growing trees which increase the angle the magic beams have to curve around to get to me. Apart from the clouds, wind, etc, the system seems to be heavily overloaded - forget about it on Saturday mornings, etc, when I can't even open email a lot of the time. This brings out the cynical in me, thinking their idea of 'maintenance' is to redirect the antenna parts every few weeks to the people who complain the loudest. I think if there was no Netflix, all would be well.

 

4G comes via the tower at Herringback, so the (Telstra) mobile phone works in certain places - I get 1 bar if lucky, and have to stand out in the cold/wind often, to get a decent signal. Not good for Netflix. I pay for this service separately.

 

FTA also comes from Herringback, but its frequency (?) seems to bend around and through trees better. That's why it wins, and I'm keen to maximize it by being able to do what my Topfield used to do. It seems like a lucky era that I haven't been able to catch up on, hence my interest in this thread.

 

Just looking at the Panasonic boxes mentioned above, the good one is $1100 and very ugly, with SMPS and spinning HDD. Probably not worth the investment for this job.

 

I'd really prefer to find a purpose-built FTA recorder (PVR).

[davewantsmoore]

28 minutes ago, BioBrian said:

but somewhere between that and Zero in reality

Log a fault with NBN (via your service providers support desk).   If your provider doesn't want to do that, then you need a new provider.

 

Why 12?  50$ per month should get you more like 50mbps peak with unlimited data.

 

29 minutes ago, BioBrian said:

Telstra

Check Optus (use a friends mobile phone) ... if it's there, then consider getting someone out to test if a permanent antenna install on your roof would provide a good service.

 

29 minutes ago, BioBrian said:

I'd really prefer to find a purpose-built FTA recorder (PVR).

If you have a PC running full time.... then you could consider a TV tuner card for it, and using software like Plex/Kodi or HDhomerun.... to either watch live TV, or recorded shows (of which you can nuke the ads from too).

[bob_m_54]

On 05/05/2023 at 8:03 AM, davewantsmoore said:

but it does also use the broadcasted data to augment the fetch provided data (the point being that it could work without the internet, if fetch allowed it to)

That's my point though, I'm sure it doesn't use broadcast data to augment. Do you have a link to something that gives more info? I'm happy to be proved wrong, but I don't think I am. I can't remember where I saw it, but I did read something online as well, and thought that it was a strange setup, and why not just use the broadcaster's supplied data.

 

Edit: I just checked the Fetch EPG against the EPG available on the TV, and  on SBS world movies, as an example, the Fetch lists movies up until next Saturday, 13:35 Oliver, while the the TV using only Broadcaster supplied data lists up until next Saturday  22:25 The Chambermaid Lynn. And the descriptions for both listings of Oliver are totally different. So I don't know which info is augmented.. Actually the Fetch description gives much more information about the movie too.

Edited May 6, 2023 by bob_m_54
more info

[emesbee]

On 04/05/2023 at 4:26 PM, Pete D said:

I only use Fetch to watch recorded tv (I only watch recorded tv so I can fast forward through the ads)

Which is now buried an extra layer deep and uses different button so there goes the muscle memory. Any streaming is through an Apple TV.

 

I tend to use my Fetch for broadcast TV now, as it also gives access to ABC iview, SBS on demand, Youtube etc. Those apps used to work on my TV, but they dropped off one by one as the TV got older.

 

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, bob_m_54 said:

That's my point though, I'm sure it doesn't use broadcast data to augment. Do you have a link to something that gives more info?

Fetch TV supports "CRID" that is encoded in the DVB stream.

https://www.freetv.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/OP-72-Implementation-of-Content-Reference-IDs-by-Australian-Broadcasters-Issue-1-December-2014.pdf

 

This is how the fetch box knows (or is supposed to know, people do complain about the functionality some) if a program is running on time.

 

Quote

 

The Fetch TV EPG now takes real time data (CRID) from the free-to-air channel stream

 

1 hour ago, bob_m_54 said:

and why not just use the broadcaster's supplied data.

There's a couple of reasons...

 

When Fetch launched, CRID had not yet launched... and so the EPG data in the stream (which any compliant DVB client can read) didn't identify shows well enough to be able to understand what was a replay, or what was part of a series/season, or what genre a movie was, etc. etc.    Also the data was not very high quality generally.   Fetch (and Tivo) made their name on providing high(er) quality data for a beter user experience.  [EDIT: and like you point out, still do today]

 

Also back then, there were legal cases pending to try and prevent third parties from making use of the embedded EPG data.... and so it wassn't necessarily clear if Fetch could rely on it in the ways they wanted to.   The networks lost those cases.

 

1 hour ago, bob_m_54 said:

Edit: I just checked the Fetch EPG against the EPG available on the TV, and  on SBS world movies, as an example, the Fetch lists movies up until next Saturday, 13:35 Oliver, while the the TV using only Broadcaster supplied data lists up until next Saturday  22:25 The Chambermaid Lynn. And the descriptions for both listings of Oliver are totally different. So I don't know which info is augmented.. Actually the Fetch description gives much more information about the movie too.

Sure.  I think you may have misunderstoof my point.

 

Anything which can display a DVB stream can also read the embedded data.  Fetch can read the embedded data.   Fetch doesn't use most of the data (only the CRID data to be sure about replays and overtime, etc.) ......  Fetch COULD still WORK with out an internet connection (it would need to drop back to the embedded data) if they wanted it to (and they obviously do a better job with their data).

 

The point is that it might seem like a really bad UX ... ie. "you mean my internet as to be working for my free to air TV to work now ??!?" .... but fetch don't care, cos they don't want anyone buying their box to "use it offline".   Their business model is selling you internet streamed channels and content.  (which is why the mandatory credit card to activate.... if you don't have a CC and don't have internet , then you are a "bad customer").

Edited May 6, 2023 by davewantsmoore