Coaxial Cables for Digital

[MusicOne]

I have used coaxial speaker cables in the past.....for driving Quad 57s.....and they proved to be very good indeed, but is the same true for digital transmission?

 

I have recently acquired a pair of Edifier active speakers for use with my TV. They have an onboard DAC (and amplifier)and can be connected by either optical or coaxial cables (as well as Bluetooth and line-in). Bluetooth is subpar and line-in is a bit cumbersome, thought very good. It is now obvious to me that of the two (optical and coax), coaxial is the preferred choice for quality audio.

 

I have been using a generic brand of coaxial cable and I was wondering whether investing in a quality....i.e. expensive....coax cable would improve things. Is there any real improvement in sound quality by using an upmarket digital cable....after all, it is only carrying a digital signal.

 

Thanks.....John.

 

 

 

 

[muon*]

I made my own and was a big improvement over the generic Concord one from jaycar I was using.

 

For a good one at reasonable pricing I'd see what Geoff at Aurealis Audio has.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MusicOne said:

Is there any real improvement in sound quality by using an upmarket digital cable....after all, it is only carrying a digital signal.

It depends on which camp you are in.  There are a few vocal people here who say it is all ones and zeros. I am in the camp who believe that digital cables have a sound signature. 

 

Do you want to convinced?

[Neo]

1 hour ago, MusicOne said:

I have used coaxial speaker cables in the past.....for driving Quad 57s.....and they proved to be very good indeed, but is the same true for digital transmission?

 

I have recently acquired a pair of Edifier active speakers for use with my TV. They have an onboard DAC (and amplifier)and can be connected by either optical or coaxial cables (as well as Bluetooth and line-in). Bluetooth is subpar and line-in is a bit cumbersome, thought very good. It is now obvious to me that of the two (optical and coax), coaxial is the preferred choice for quality audio.

 

I have been using a generic brand of coaxial cable and I was wondering whether investing in a quality....i.e. expensive....coax cable would improve things. Is there any real improvement in sound quality by using an upmarket digital cable....after all, it is only carrying a digital signal.

 

Thanks.....John.

 

 

 

 

Have a search as this has been discussed many times. 
Neo

ps amazes me every time this sort of thing comes up here for discussion, rather than the OP making a b line to the nearest hifi store and developing a relationship and investigating for themselves. Many retailers will let you borrow with no obligation at the end.  After all, opinions are like ……., everyone has got one. 
Neo

[muon*]

I made two pair.

 

Twisted pair Duelund Silver in oiled cotton with older ETI low mass silver plated plugs.

Twisted pair SIlver/Gold in teflon with older ETI low mass silver plated plugs. (can't recall brand of wire)

 

I prefer the Duelund Silver one, and it was totally different sounding for the better than the Concord cable I was using. Better clarity, better definition, more weight, better tone and sound stage.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by muon*

[rockeater]

4 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

It depends on which camp you are in.  There are a few vocal people here who say it is all ones and zeros. I am in the camp who believe that digital cables have a sound signature. 

There is also a third camp.

Digital signal sent over SPDIF is around 1.5MHz.

If you have a real "digital cable", then it should be sufficient to send the signal to the active speakers used for your TV sound.

By "digital cable" I mean one that has been designed for the task, as opposed to analogue ones which are also terminated with RCA plugs but designed to pass much lower frequencies and to attenuate the higher ones to reduce noise. So if your cables has it written on its sheath "digital cable" it should be all you need for your intended purpose.

 

I shot a little video where I compare different cables (digital and analogue) I happened to have in my garage.

I used a very good output from the Sony CDP-337ESD as a source of SPDIF signal and you can see what sort of difference cables make (at least visually - for sonic differences you would have to compare them yourself).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQAjW2PS7Fk

 

[bob_m_54]

2 hours ago, rockeater said:

There is also a third camp.

Digital signal sent over SPDIF is around 1.5MHz.

If you have a real "digital cable", then it should be sufficient to send the signal to the active speakers used for your TV sound.

By "digital cable" I mean one that has been designed for the task, as opposed to analogue ones which are also terminated with RCA plugs but designed to pass much lower frequencies and to attenuate the higher ones to reduce noise. So if your cables has it written on its sheath "digital cable" it should be all you need for your intended purpose.

 

I shot a little video where I compare different cables (digital and analogue) I happened to have in my garage.

I used a very good output from the Sony CDP-337ESD as a source of SPDIF signal and you can see what sort of difference cables make (at least visually - for sonic differences you would have to compare them yourself).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQAjW2PS7Fk

 

 

So it shows that even the worst of the tested cables is more than capable of transferring the data accurately.... Nice work Roman..

[bob_m_54]

7 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

It depends on which camp you are in.  There are a few vocal people here who say it is all ones and zeros. I am in the camp who believe that digital cables have a sound signature. 

 

Do you want to convinced?

Nah it's not ones and zeros, it's transitions between highs and lows....

[MusicOne]

Thanks guys.....I greatly appreciate your responses.

 

 

[SonicArt]

Digital cables do have a significant impact on what you hear, and a digital cable does not have to be a coax either, my Blue Lightning digital is not a coax but it is a 75ohm cable, very specialized milspec design to give true impedance, silver copper alloy and pressure cast teflon dielectrics, fully shielded. You don't have to spend huge money to get a very high performing cable.

[rockeater]

27 minutes ago, SonicArt said:

my Blue Lightning digital is not a coax but it is a 75ohm cable, very specialized milspec design to give true impedance, silver copper alloy and pressure cast teflon dielectrics, fully shielded.

I am intrigued.

Could you post a picture?

Of it and the cross-section?

[Misternavi]

On 9/3/2023 at 3:15 PM, MusicOne said:

I have been using a generic brand of coaxial cable and I was wondering whether investing in a quality....i.e. expensive....coax cable would improve things. Is there any real improvement in sound quality by using an upmarket digital cable....after all, it is only carrying a digital signal.

I don't know if this will improve (now you know which side I sit on) but I use Belden 1505A - a solid core 75ohm cable with Canare 75ohm RCAs. I've been using it for nearly 20years without any problems. it will cost you about $15 to make (cost 1/2 that 20yrs ago)
The Canare plugs are crimps so no soldering or screw downs. 

I do remember comparing it with a more expensive 75ohm cable and it did sound different. BUT a very minor difference and it wasn't better just different.

[MusicOne]

28 minutes ago, Misternavi said:

I don't know if this will improve (now you know which side I sit on) but I use Belden 1505A - a solid core 75ohm cable with Canare 75ohm RCAs. I've been using it for nearly 20years without any problems. it will cost you about $15 to make (cost 1/2 that 20yrs ago)
The Canare plugs are crimps so no soldering or screw downs. 

I do remember comparing it with a more expensive 75ohm cable and it did sound different. BUT a very minor difference and it wasn't better just different.

 

Yeah.....I have a pair of 75ohm speaker cables for my previous speakers.....Quad 57s.....and they were very good indeed. The 75ohm cables didn't do as well when I acquired a pair of conventional speakers.

[Misternavi]

On 9/3/2023 at 3:15 PM, MusicOne said:

Edifier active speakers for use with my TV

Go optical. TV usually has an optical out. I don't think you will hear a difference between optical and RCA/Coax. from the TV. Does your TV have COAX out?

 

13 minutes ago, MusicOne said:

75ohm speaker cables

Speaker cable at 75ohms? what gauge are the conductors? 

[MusicOne]

44 minutes ago, Misternavi said:

Go optical. TV usually has an optical out. I don't think you will hear a difference between optical and RCA/Coax. from the TV. Does your TV have COAX out?

 

Speaker cable at 75ohms? what gauge are the conductors? 

 

TV doesn't have a coax connection. The TV (Sony Master Series) is only a few months old, so maybe they are doing away with coax connections on TVs......using my Oppo 105 for coax out.

 

Sorry, don't know what gauge the conductors are.

 

I know it sounds unusual to use 75ohm coax for speaker cables, but it worked very well with the Quad 57s I used to own, but not so well with my current (dynamic) speakers.

Edited March 13, 2023 by MusicOne

[muon*]

Borrow and/or make a few and try them.

Edited March 13, 2023 by muon*
typo

[stereo coffee]

On 09/03/2023 at 11:39 PM, rockeater said:

There is also a third camp.

Digital signal sent over SPDIF is around 1.5MHz.

If you have a real "digital cable", then it should be sufficient to send the signal to the active speakers used for your TV sound.

By "digital cable" I mean one that has been designed for the task, as opposed to analogue ones which are also terminated with RCA plugs but designed to pass much lower frequencies and to attenuate the higher ones to reduce noise. So if your cables has it written on its sheath "digital cable" it should be all you need for your intended purpose.

 

I shot a little video where I compare different cables (digital and analogue) I happened to have in my garage.

I used a very good output from the Sony CDP-337ESD as a source of SPDIF signal and you can see what sort of difference cables make (at least visually - for sonic differences you would have to compare them yourself).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQAjW2PS7Fk

 

interesting video, but asking would you really fit el cheapo RCA to your scope  as the CD player has. Inferring you will likely see differences again if BNC were fitted each end. Obviously a bit more work though. 

[davewantsmoore]

On 09/03/2023 at 3:15 PM, MusicOne said:

it is only carrying a digital signal.

Digital audio signals are much harder to carry without distortion than analogue audio ones.

 

BUT.... how the digital signal distortion is translated into distortion of the analogue audio signal (ie. at/after the DAC) depends on the DAC, and

High quality digital cables do not need to be super-expensive.

[davewantsmoore]

On 09/03/2023 at 5:48 PM, muon* said:

it was totally different sounding

I'm not surprised.  LOL.

 

On 09/03/2023 at 9:39 PM, rockeater said:

There is also a third camp.

A digital cable could very well have a "sound signature" .... but this will depend totally on the equipment it is connected to.   Unless of course, that the cable was so poorly engineered to carry high frequencies that it had a "sound signature".

 

On 09/03/2023 at 11:58 PM, bob_m_54 said:

So it shows that even the worst of the tested cables is more than capable of transferring the data accurately.... Nice work Roman..

 

A coat hanger could likely transmit the right 1s and 0s ..... but what the DAC makes of the horribly distorted waveform, will depend on the DAC.    It is not "just 1s and 0s, and if they're correct, they're correct". (if you are converting from digital to analogue that is.... if it is digital to digital then it is almost always

much much more forgiving).

 

4 hours ago, Misternavi said:

Go optical.

For a TV I think this is a good general strategy.

[muon*]

24 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

I'm not surprised.  LOL.

For the better!

 

Better clarity, better definition, more weight, better tone and better soundstage.

[rockeater]

1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

5 hours ago, Misternavi said:

Go optical.

For a TV I think this is a good general strategy.

There is a reason why TV manufacturers are using Toslink.

There are numerous high frequencies being generated inside of a TV, and these TVs are mass produced so they just meet the interference emission standards.

They know that most people are not audiophiles, and will use the cheapest digital cable they can find. 

The cheapest Toslink cable will be superior to the cheapest SPDIF one and no interference will be either transmitted electrically or radiated through it.

[bob_m_54]

5 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

A coat hanger could likely transmit the right 1s and 0s ..... but what the DAC makes of the horribly distorted waveform, will depend on the DAC.    It is not "just 1s and 0s, and if they're correct, they're correct". (if you are converting from digital to analogue that is.... if it is digital to digital then it is almost always

much much more forgiving).

None of the tested cables produced a horribly distorted waveform though..

[davewantsmoore]

On 11/03/2023 at 11:19 PM, rockeater said:

I am intrigued.

Could you post a picture?

Of it and the cross-section?

Reading the site, I got the impression it is a twisted pair inside a "floating shield".

The conductor spacing (and consistency of) is so critical, but <shrug>

 

1 hour ago, bob_m_54 said:

None of the tested cables produced a horribly distorted waveform though..

There is many nanoseconds on the scope scren, "jitter" is a lot shorter.

It really just shows that "all cables will work".

 

I shouldn't have really said "horribly distorted", as it invoked the wrong idea.

 

EDIT: don't get me wrong, I think well engineered cable will be fine (ie. something engineered for the job)

Edited March 13, 2023 by davewantsmoore

[MusicOne]

A picture of my 75ohm coax speaker cables......made to order, professionally, largely because I don't have the skills.

 

These cables worked a treat with my....long gone and lamented.....Quad 57s. Thinking of getting new 57s.....just miss them so much. Not claiming they are the world's best speaker, but for the music I listen to.....classical, jazz, vocals...they're unbeatable.

[SonicArt]

11 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

Reading the site, I got the impression it is a twisted pair inside a "floating shield".

The conductor spacing (and consistency of) is so critical, but <shrug>

Not exactly, its a unique construction, it uses solid PTFE rods to create an assembly with a constant impedance and the shield is actively connected. I have updated the wording on the site to be more clear, it was transferred from the old site from 20 odd years ago and was not entirely up to date.  I wont be posting pics of it right now sorry...

Edited March 13, 2023 by SonicArt