Universal Remote with expansion options?

[NonPlayableCharacter]

So I have read through a few of the threads here, but maybe I am not seeing if there is a definitive "go to" option now that Logitech's offerings have gone up the pictures?

 

Despite being a former tech professional, I am wary of enabling too much home automation technology; I spent too much of my professional life uncovering attack vectors in data centres especially in the BMS world and I am loathe to integrate too many functions at home. I may want to change my stance on this in the future as and when I feel like addressing and integrating each piece of functionality (central heating, locks, garage door, lighting inside and out, CCTV etc etc) - but for now that stuff stays in-silo.

 

With the future "maybe" above, and with the old stalwart Logitech gone, if I want to start at the basics all over again (haven't had a universal remote in 12+ years since I lived in Asia), is there a solution or system that sits head-and-shoulders above others? I'm going to start with the ability to control TV/Foxtel/AV/Audio plus the listening area Mitsubishi split-unit.

 

Any advice much appreciated. Thank you.

[BugPowderDust]

The ducks nuts on this front for many moons was the Logitech Harmony Elite. While discontinued now (people are chasing circa $800 new now!) they turn up on Gumtree often enough for about $200.  There's even this one on eBay right now about 45 mins drive from your place: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/165985826318?hash=item26a586b60e:g:6PUAAOSwVgZkE~lw

 

I'd still buy a used one before I'd go to something that is reliant on someone else programming it for me (and for a fee).  To get something better than the Elite you're into custom solution space and with the $ to match.

 

e.g. I got a quote from Control4 to replace my Elite and it was going to be about $3k to replicate what I have today.

 

Sofabaton is out but has had really mixed reviews and seems nasty compared to the outgoing Harmony stuff. 

 

Then there are these kind of solutions if you want to drive it all by your phone: https://www.amazon.com.au/Broadlink-RM4-pro-Automation-Assistant/dp/B086VBXSDH?th=1

 

@Marc has a URC setup which is cheaper than C4, but programming it is still out of your hands and I know that's not what you're chasing. https://www.urc-automation.com 

[Guest]

The sad reality is nothing has filled Logitech's shoes. 

 

As BPD says above, I went with URC which while excellent, does require the services of a trained professional.

 

I was fortunate enough to be involved with the design and installation of my system, and despite being very tech savvy and running a complete Z-Wave smarthome here (CCTV, irrigation, lighting, access, numerous other gadgets) the URC programming was over my head. It was obvious to me that not only is it an ultra-steep learning curve, any system involved numerous workarounds to customise things to your application. This knowledge generally only comes with years of using the system. Unless you're heading down this way as a career path, I would caution against trying to owner-build your remote system  - if, you could even get access to the software.

 

The other downside, like me, if you change your system frequently, you'll need the programmer to make another visit.

 

I've got a cupboard full of Harmony Elites and I wouldn't part with them at any price at the moment. It's still the best option if you don't want to go down the path of a custom automation solution.

[NonPlayableCharacter]

The two foremost experts whose opinions and input I really wanted. Thank you both @Marc and @BugPowderDust.

 

I wanted URC to be the answer, but I do change stuff often enough for it to become a real ball-ache, thanks for the objective input on this, Marc.

 

With how good Logitech is/was, it's a conundrum as to why they stopped, and also why nobody else has either bought the tech from them or recreated what they did. Real shame.

 

I think I may look at second hand as per Craig's suggestion and take my chances.

 

 

[BugPowderDust]

@El Tel I'm still amazed at how good the Harmony Elite is. The IR blaster on it really never fails and the activity setting on it is a world ahead of the previous generation Logitech devices. From start of an activity to ready to go, it's a few seconds. Most of it is pauses caused due to wait times for particular devices to power up.

 

As you know, I seemingly have a new piece of gear in my system every week and it's never tedious to rewire the Elite to accommodate the changes. It's so easy to use when programmed that my kids and wife have no idea things are any different and some of the changes I've made are not insignificant.

[Guest]

Like you, I wish there was an answer. I've even held back some upgrades to my room (equipment) knowing I'll have to reprogram things. 

Sofabaton emerged as the likely replacement, but the reality according to all reports is its buggy, not as capable, and service is non-existent (or like me, you'll never even got what you paid for). 

[NonPlayableCharacter]

1 minute ago, BugPowderDust said:

@El Tel I'm still amazed at how good the Harmony Elite is. The IR blaster on it really never fails and the activity setting on it is a world ahead of the previous generation Logitech devices. From start of an activity to ready to go, it's a few seconds. Most of it is pauses caused due to wait times for particular devices to power up.

 

As you know, I seemingly have a new piece of gear in my system every week and it's never tedious to rewire the Elite to accommodate the changes. It's so easy to use when programmed that my kids and wife have no idea things are any different and some of the changes I've made are not insignificant.

 

I had a much earlier gen of the Harmony equivalent in Singapore for a few years but it sh4t itself and after the umpteenth failure, I seem to recall launching it out of a 5th floor window and into the condo pool in sheer frustration. I never bothered after that.

 

I'll give the ebay route a spin.

[NonPlayableCharacter]

7 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said:

The IR blaster on it really never fails and the activity setting on it is a world ahead of the previous generation Logitech devices.

 

Am I right in thinking this is the same blaster and setup as the ebay link but without the actual hardware remote? Just using android/ios device app instead?

https://www.amazon.com.au/Logitech-Harmony-Universal-Controller-Smartphone/dp/B07J46NZTK/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=logitech+harmony+elite&qid=1679364260&sr=8-2#customerReviews

 

[BugPowderDust]

20 minutes ago, El Tel said:

 

Am I right in thinking this is the same blaster and setup as the ebay link but without the actual hardware remote? Just using android/ios device app instead?

https://www.amazon.com.au/Logitech-Harmony-Universal-Controller-Smartphone/dp/B07J46NZTK/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=logitech+harmony+elite&qid=1679364260&sr=8-2#customerReviews

yep that's it

[BugPowderDust]

18 minutes ago, Hydrology said:

I went with these guys and shipping is due to commence in the next few weeks:-

https://www.unfoldedcircle.com/

 

Already a Logitech owner so will be interesting tio see how this one pans out. I like the native Roon control.

Will keep an eye on it but I am always wary of new startups like this. Eero was the last one that showed promise and Control4 bought it up.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said:

Will keep an eye on it but I am always wary of new startups like this. Eero was the last one that showed promise and Control4 bought it up.

 

That was https://www.neeo.com/ -  I was invested too and it looked to be the goods.

I guess it was too good, and that's why C4 snapped them up!

[BugPowderDust]

2 hours ago, Marc said:

 

That was https://www.neeo.com/ -  I was invested too and it looked to be the goods.

I guess it was too good, and that's why C4 snapped them up!

eero <-> neeo, sumphinlikedat.

 

yep. It sucks when an innovator gets gobbled up.

[NonPlayableCharacter]

On 21/03/2023 at 12:21 PM, BugPowderDust said:

There's even this one on eBay right now about 45 mins drive from your place: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/165985826318?hash=item26a586b60e:g:6PUAAOSwVgZkE~lw

 

 

Snaffled. Bit of sniping at the end as per usual rules of engagement on fleabay, but now won and paid for; it will be mine shortly. Thanks for the link.

[NonPlayableCharacter]

 

So with the Harmony Hub, my rack shelves would likely block the IR signal from being able to control devices on different shelves or adjacent racks, right? Would I be better off having the hub roughly around my listening/watching position?

 

Or should I just enable the IR on the remote rather than using the default control path of Harmony Remote -> Hub -> device?

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, El Tel said:

 

So with the Harmony Hub, my rack shelves would likely block the IR signal from being able to control devices on different shelves or adjacent racks, right? Would I be better off having the hub roughly around my listening/watching position?

 

Or should I just enable the IR on the remote rather than using the default control path of Harmony Remote -> Hub -> device?

 

Suck it and see. I (had) a hub just sitting on top of my server rack, and even with the door closed, the IR bounced around enough without needing the blasters.

From memory once all setup, you can edit which devices are sent a command from either the hub or the remote.

[NonPlayableCharacter]

1 minute ago, Marc said:

 

Suck it and see. I (had) a hub just sitting on top of my server rack, and even with the door closed, the IR bounced around enough without needing the blasters.

From memory once all setup, you can edit which devices are sent a command from either the hub or the remote.

 

Thanks. I'm trawling Youtube for videos and recommendations. It does seem anecdotally like the hub is pretty fierce at blasting out IR.

 

I'm waiting for the Harmony Remote to charge-up too before I start trying to get everything working cohesively.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, El Tel said:

I'm waiting for the Harmony Remote to charge-up too before I start trying to get everything working cohesively.

 

Don't expect it to be spot on (your programming) the first time. It does take a little tweaking to get dialled right in.

It will generally only improve on your first attempt. Just get a base point with all devices working, then optimise your scenes, tweak delay times, and that sort of thing. There's not a lot it can't do, really and lots of workarounds available once you become comfortable with the menus/options.

 

[BugPowderDust]

3 hours ago, El Tel said:

Thanks. I'm trawling Youtube for videos and recommendations. It does seem anecdotally like the hub is pretty fierce at blasting out IR.

Mine sits on the top of my entertainment cabinet, between my MSB DAC and my turntable.  Never misses anything it needs to turn on.

[NonPlayableCharacter]

6 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said:

Mine sits on the top of my entertainment cabinet, between my MSB DAC and my turntable.  Never misses anything it needs to turn on.

 

Yeah - placement doesn't seem fussy so far.

 

The hub doesn't seem to play nicely all the time with my IQ5. Using the Android control app in any case. Haven't tried the Harmony Remote yet.

 

And my Samsung TV can't respond with turning to the right HDMI input properly either.

 

Teething troubles. I'll get to the bottom of it.

[BugPowderDust]

The Harmony remote doesn't even send IR from memory. It talks Bluetooth to the hub which sends the IR commands. 

 

You will probably have a few programming / teething issues, but yell out if you need a hand. I've been playing with these for a decade or more.

[NonPlayableCharacter]

Just now, BugPowderDust said:

The Harmony remote doesn't even send IR from memory. It talks Bluetooth to the hub which sends the IR commands. 

 

You will probably have a few programming / teething issues, but yell out if you need a hand. I've been playing with these for a decade or more.

 

It's more sophisticated than the last foray into Logitech I had that ended up with it getting drop-punted into the pool...

 

I'm noticing discrepancies in syncing too when using the PC Logitech app versus using the Android app.

 

I'm not getting overly bothered on the Samsung hdmi input either as I'm likely to move back to an AV pre shortly so that will render the Samsung input changes moot.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, BugPowderDust said:

The Harmony remote doesn't even send IR from memory. It talks Bluetooth to the hub which sends the IR commands. 

 

 

Can't it do both? At least, one of the lower models I reprogrammed recently could. 
But you might be right - I can't remember the top of the range remote having a blaster up top now I think of it.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, El Tel said:

I'm not getting overly bothered on the Samsung hdmi input either as I'm likely to move back to an AV pre shortly so that will render the Samsung input changes moot.

 

Just a note on that (might save you down the track) - but I have had cases where I've had to tweak the TV's input/HDMI settings to disable auto-input sensing and similar.

Ie. remote does everything it should, but a connected device kicks the TV to a different input.

[BugPowderDust]

6 minutes ago, El Tel said:

I'm noticing discrepancies in syncing too when using the PC Logitech app versus using the Android app.

I don't use the desktop app whatsoever with the Elite. I do it all via the IOS app on my iphone.

[NonPlayableCharacter]

1 minute ago, Marc said:

remote does everything it should, but a connected device kicks the TV to a different input.

 

yeah - the behaviour is inconsistent when going by activity rather than individual source control.

 

I add a delay in the Android app's activity setup to allow the TV to switch on, then pause before turning to HDMI 4 on the Samsungs external HDMI Smart Hub. Sometimes it works, other times not. I shall do some gradual troubleshooting, but not sweating it too much yet.